Donald's Tonkin Gulf resolution?
What does Iran gain by attacking two tankers right now?
Nothing.
What do some other countries gain?
A massive disruption in any efforts by Western nations to de-escalate with Iran.
Who would stand to lose badly in a de-escalated Middle East? Hmmmm...
This attack could have been pulled off with drones. The Houthis, along with all of the UN-recognized governments bordering the Persian gulf, have drones that are advanced enough to pull off an attack like this. and it's not hard to imagine that small conspiracy within one of those country's armies to use a drone without permission.
Tankers in and out of the Persian gulf are often accompanied by u.s. Navy escorts. No one is saying if these tankers were, or not. The innocent explanation is that the Navy does not want to expose their ordinary tactics to the press, or that their ships are not really capable of tracking small drones well enough to know where they came from. But it's also possible that the Navy knows exactly where the attack came from, whether it was a drone or not.
Question for the group: if some part of the US military was able to gather enough information to prove that the attack didn't come from Iran, will that information make it out into the public?
(06-13-2019, 05:07 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Iran responsible for 'blatant assault' on oil tankers in Gulf of Oman, Mike Pompeo says
https://www.foxnews.com/world/highly-lik...an-defense
Again, what does Iran stand to gain by literally torpedoing its own chance at de-escalation? Iran did not attack those tankers. Pompeo knows who did, but damned if he'll ever admit it.
(06-13-2019, 07:54 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (06-13-2019, 05:07 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Iran responsible for 'blatant assault' on oil tankers in Gulf of Oman, Mike Pompeo says
https://www.foxnews.com/world/highly-lik...an-defense
Again, what does Iran stand to gain by literally torpedoing its own chance at de-escalation? Iran did not attack those tankers. Pompeo knows who did, but damned if he'll ever admit it.
I have to agree with you here.
The only reason they'd do it is to show their capabilities, and if they want to show force, then they certainly wouldn't hide after doing it. Iran gains nothing from doing this.
Our intel agencies aren't exactly the most trustworthy, either.
(06-13-2019, 07:54 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (06-13-2019, 05:07 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Iran responsible for 'blatant assault' on oil tankers in Gulf of Oman, Mike Pompeo says
https://www.foxnews.com/world/highly-lik...an-defense
Again, what does Iran stand to gain by literally torpedoing its own chance at de-escalation? Iran did not attack those tankers. Pompeo knows who did, but damned if he'll ever admit it.
Who says they want to descalate? They thrive in the region under chaos. This is also a way to gain more control over the straight. It's been going on for years. This time they are saying if we can't ship our oil, then others can't either. The last time they got this froggy they lost their entire navy and many gas/oil platforms.
And for those that say are intel is untrustworthy don't understand where this intel is coming from. It isn't from the CIA or FBI.
(06-13-2019, 09:50 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (06-13-2019, 07:54 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Again, what does Iran stand to gain by literally torpedoing its own chance at de-escalation? Iran did not attack those tankers. Pompeo knows who did, but damned if he'll ever admit it.
Who says they want to descalate? They thrive in the region under chaos. This is also a way to gain more control over the straight. It's been going on for years. This time they are saying if we can't ship our oil, then others can't either. The last time they got this froggy they lost their entire navy and many gas/oil platforms.
And for those that say are intel is untrustworthy don't understand where this intel is coming from. It isn't from the CIA or FBI.
Iran is doing a lot of things, but thriving is not one of them.
I understand that our Navy and air Force have their own intelligence sources, but I see no reason to trust that any more or less than our CIA. All of it goes thru the executive branch before we hear anything.
(06-13-2019, 11:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-13-2019, 09:50 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Who says they want to descalate? They thrive in the region under chaos. This is also a way to gain more control over the straight. It's been going on for years. This time they are saying if we can't ship our oil, then others can't either. The last time they got this froggy they lost their entire navy and many gas/oil platforms.
And for those that say are intel is untrustworthy don't understand where this intel is coming from. It isn't from the CIA or FBI.
Iran is doing a lot of things, but thriving is not one of them.
I understand that our Navy and air Force have their own intelligence sources, but I see no reason to trust that any more or less than our CIA. All of it goes thru the executive branch before we hear anything.
That would be a very ignorant point of view. Take a step back and look at each country in the region that they influence beyond their borders. They are, in fact, expanding and thriving in that regard. They certainly aren't making money on the global economic stage!
What? Collection, analysis, processing, and dissemination of military intelligence is done so separate from any sphere of influence. Ever stop to think why the military would have a completely different Intel system from that of the other alphabet agencies? Anyone in the executive branch knows only what has been shared through daily briefs, and they control nothing in regards to military intel.
Trumpettes may be about to get the regime change they voted for. Isn't that what you want? That's certainly what John Bolton wants. And it looks like you're stuck with him.
(06-14-2019, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://mobile.twitter.com/Independent/s...2418331648
(06-14-2019, 09:25 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Who is Rob Delaney and why do you allow his unfounded hyperbolic shrill dictate your world outlook?
Haven't the foggiest who he is.
I'd say my world outlook regarding the US is more based on their past and current performance than any random twitter account.
Then why did you post his tweet?
So the ship was still attacked, just not by a weapon cited by Trump...IMPEACH!
(06-14-2019, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://mobile.twitter.com/Independent/s...2418331648
(06-14-2019, 09:25 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Who is Rob Delaney and why do you allow his unfounded hyperbolic shrill dictate your world outlook?
Haven't the foggiest who he is.
I'd say my world outlook regarding the US is more based on their past and current performance than any random twitter account.
A Japanese tank owner is now an expert in ballistics? That damage was no torpedo, nor were the last tamperings. Explosives were set above or at the water line with an inward damage pattern. That is consistent with the type of mine allegedly used not a bullet or any other projectile. If in fact, a projectile large enough to cause that amount of damage were used, it would certainly be detected.
The other twit has a pretty narrow and flawed... meh, he's an idiot!
(06-14-2019, 11:10 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2019, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://mobile.twitter.com/Independent/s...2418331648
Haven't the foggiest who he is.
I'd say my world outlook regarding the US is more based on their past and current performance than any random twitter account.
Then why did you post his tweet?
So the ship was still attacked, just not by a weapon cited by Trump...IMPEACH!
Because I agreed with its content and found it funny? Why else?
Yeah they got the information wrong. The US needs to bring back Chaney to get their propaganda machine back up and running, the Iran and Venezuela plans have been poorly executed.
Despite what the US war machine says the Iranian government is not an irrational actor. The prime minister of Japan was in Iran at the time of the attacks.
The more likely scenario is a Saudi funded terrorist attack which can be conveniently blamed on Iran to further the long term US plan of taking them out.
(06-14-2019, 12:51 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2019, 11:10 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Then why did you post his tweet?
So the ship was still attacked, just not by a weapon cited by Trump...IMPEACH!
Because I agreed with its content and found it funny? Why else?
Yeah they got the information wrong. The US needs to bring back Chaney to get their propaganda machine back up and running, the Iran and Venezuela plans have been poorly executed.
Despite what the US war machine says the Iranian government is not an irrational actor. The prime minister of Japan was in Iran at the time of the attacks.
The more likely scenario is a Saudi funded terrorist attack which can be conveniently blamed on Iran to further the long term US plan of taking them out.
How does a Saudi funded ploy explain the removing of an unexploded device Iranian mine by an Iranian fast boat before the U.S. arriving for assistance? What is the US cost versus a gain of taking Iran out? The answer is nothing for a lot, otherwise, it would have taken place quite a while ago.
It's a shame the US intel services have shown themselves to be partisan liars who the President cannot trust.