And yet we don't have money for The Wall
Dems Consider $4.5 Billion Border Bill, All for the Care of Migrants & to Provide Lawyers
As we predicted, Democrats
will come up with $4.5 billion for the border, but not to stop migrants [euphemism for illegal aliens] from pouring in. The money can only be used to care for them. This will encourage more to come. That said, the money is desperately needed. There is a humanitarian crisis.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/dems...H8FSadbJEs
Every immigrant should have their case for asylum considered by a judge. "Considered by a judge" can mean "the judge reads the transcripts or watches video of an interview conducted by USBP". If that initial plea is rejected, they are free to appeal, but just as criminals typically play out the appeals process behind bars, those immigrants would play it out from their home country.
Again, I point back to the reality that most of our illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
(06-22-2019, 09:14 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I point back to the reality that most of our illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
This is what is known as an unsubstantiated claim.
I wish they were as concerned about the welfare of their own countrymen. I have some liberal friends who are unapologetic about how they regard migrants and refugees over their fellow Americans.
It's a good thing I can overlook their political leanings and keep the friendships. I think that's mostly because politics doesn't consume their lives like it does a lot of folks.
(06-22-2019, 09:14 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Every immigrant should have their case for asylum considered by a judge. "Considered by a judge" can mean "the judge reads the transcripts or watches video of an interview conducted by USBP". If that initial plea is rejected, they are free to appeal, but just as criminals typically play out the appeals process behind bars, those immigrants would play it out from their home country.
Again, I point back to the reality that most of our illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
Visa overstays are one thing, but when 140,000 people are apprehended crossing the border illegally in ONE MONTH, something has to be done.
(06-23-2019, 05:38 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they were as concerned about the welfare of their own countrymen. I have some liberal friends who are unapologetic about how they regard migrants and refugees over their fellow Americans.
It's a good thing I can overlook their political leanings and keep the friendships. I think that's mostly because politics doesn't consume their lives like it does a lot of folks.
I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
Why, just the other day I was having a beer with a coyote and he told me that potential clients were lined up out the door because they are drawn to Trump's “xenophobic” rhetoric.
So, I asked, “Are you sure it’s not because the democrats refuse to increase border security while establishing sanctuary cities and provide coaching on how to claim asylum?”
And he says, “No. We target desperate people, particularly women and children for sexual assaults, because Trump hates them.”
Weird. Who knew.
(06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2019, 05:38 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they were as concerned about the welfare of their own countrymen. I have some liberal friends who are unapologetic about how they regard migrants and refugees over their fellow Americans.
It's a good thing I can overlook their political leanings and keep the friendships. I think that's mostly because politics doesn't consume their lives like it does a lot of folks.
I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
Seal the border entirely. 5 year moratorium on new applications. Let's reform the law and unclog the system, it's not like we need new immigrants at the moment.
(06-24-2019, 11:23 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
Seal the border entirely. 5 year moratorium on new applications. Let's reform the law and unclog the system, it's not like we need new immigrants at the moment.
As usual, we're not too far apart in theory, just differ in ideas for implementation.
(06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2019, 05:38 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they were as concerned about the welfare of their own countrymen. I have some liberal friends who are unapologetic about how they regard migrants and refugees over their fellow Americans.
It's a good thing I can overlook their political leanings and keep the friendships. I think that's mostly because politics doesn't consume their lives like it does a lot of folks.
I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
Sad thing is you believe this crap.
(06-24-2019, 03:05 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
Sad thing is you believe this crap.
Agreed.
This administration didn't "manufacture" the border crisis, it has been there for a while now. The border crisis is more than just a "humanitarian" problem, it's also a drug/crime problem.
(06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2019, 05:38 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they were as concerned about the welfare of their own countrymen. I have some liberal friends who are unapologetic about how they regard migrants and refugees over their fellow Americans.
It's a good thing I can overlook their political leanings and keep the friendships. I think that's mostly because politics doesn't consume their lives like it does a lot of folks.
I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
I'm not deflecting anything, just pointing out a fact that you agreed with. And no, neither side will do a damn thing about it which is pathetic.
Legal citizens of this country should always come first before immigrants, foreign policy, humanitarian aid, etc.
There are no easy answers for the immigration issue and this administration is doing no better or worse than previous ones. The Obama administration didn't provide sanitary conditions for minors either.
This country is broken regardless of which side you're looking from. Still....I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
(06-24-2019, 11:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
I'm not deflecting anything, just pointing out a fact that you agreed with. And no, neither side will do a damn thing about it which is pathetic.
Legal citizens of this country should always come first before immigrants, foreign policy, humanitarian aid, etc.
There are no easy answers for the immigration issue and this administration is doing no better or worse than previous ones. The Obama administration didn't provide sanitary conditions for minors either.
This country is broken regardless of which side you're looking from. Still....I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
+3.7
(06-24-2019, 11:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
I'm not deflecting anything, just pointing out a fact that you agreed with. And no, neither side will do a damn thing about it which is pathetic.
Legal citizens of this country should always come first before immigrants, foreign policy, humanitarian aid, etc.
There are no easy answers for the immigration issue and this administration is doing no better or worse than previous ones. The Obama administration didn't provide sanitary conditions for minors either.
This country is broken regardless of which side you're looking from. Still....I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
This whole issue is so wrong on so many levels, and you can certainly point to both sides of the political aisle. The current issue and the subject of this thread is the perfect example of how politicians will exploit anything purely for political reasons.
You have democrats saying how "kids are held in cages" and some even going so far as to call them "concentration camps" and pointing out the sanitary conditions. However, they refuse to do anything about it, especially address the root cause of why these people are in these detention centers. The people are there because they BROKE THE LAW. There are children there that have NO DNA associated with the "adults" that they came with. The bigger question is WHY ARE THEY THERE? It's because of the "sanctuary cities", the fact that they can get "assistance" and the fact that it's relatively easy to get across the border then claim "asylum". Democrats are doing the same thing to these children (exploiting them) that the "coyotes" did when they "assigned" children to people as they came across the border.
That's just part of the crisis at the border. The other crisis is the amount of drugs (specifically opioids), criminals and gang members that are coming across. Securing the border and stopping the flow should be the first priority.
(06-24-2019, 11:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 10:31 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's interesting that so many make the argument that we can't accept and care for immigrants because we still have veterans and homeless people in the U.S. that we haven't cared for. That's been a problem for decades that neither side has addressed nor has plans to address--it's just a convenient argument one side makes currently to deflect.
There IS a humanitarian crisis at our border, but it's been manufactured by this administration. The guy is using people as bargaining chips to make Democrats come to the table to meet his demands. It's gross. We need to streamline our immigration process, because most studies show that immigration actually contributes to our economy, rather than taking from it. Illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue if it weren't so difficult to enter the U.S. legally. Most immigrants I've been in contact with as an educator (there have been a lot of them, both legal and illegal) legitimately intend to work hard and contribute. There are absolutely those few who are looking for a free ride (speaking candidly, they do come from very specific countries), but that isn't all that different from native citizens. And studies show that U.S. citizens are actually more likely to commit a crime than illegal immigrants, meaning there's more of a danger from your fellow Americans than there is from immigrants.
All this to say, manufacturing xenophobia is and always has been an effective tactic, but it's entirely unwarranted. Borders must have some security, but the entirety of our immigration system needs an overhaul.
I'm not deflecting anything, just pointing out a fact that you agreed with. And no, neither side will do a damn thing about it which is pathetic.
Legal citizens of this country should always come first before immigrants, foreign policy, humanitarian aid, etc.
There are no easy answers for the immigration issue and this administration is doing no better or worse than previous ones. The Obama administration didn't provide sanitary conditions for minors either.
This country is broken regardless of which side you're looking from. Still....I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Switzerland is pretty nice.
(06-25-2019, 03:31 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 11:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not deflecting anything, just pointing out a fact that you agreed with. And no, neither side will do a damn thing about it which is pathetic.
Legal citizens of this country should always come first before immigrants, foreign policy, humanitarian aid, etc.
There are no easy answers for the immigration issue and this administration is doing no better or worse than previous ones. The Obama administration didn't provide sanitary conditions for minors either.
This country is broken regardless of which side you're looking from. Still....I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Switzerland is pretty nice.
Long drive to the beach.
(06-25-2019, 09:34 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2019, 03:31 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Switzerland is pretty nice.
Long drive to the beach.
I prefer the mountains anyway. Skied the mountains in the Austrian/German border once. I hate skiing but the view was epic.
(06-25-2019, 03:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019, 11:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not deflecting anything, just pointing out a fact that you agreed with. And no, neither side will do a damn thing about it which is pathetic.
Legal citizens of this country should always come first before immigrants, foreign policy, humanitarian aid, etc.
There are no easy answers for the immigration issue and this administration is doing no better or worse than previous ones. The Obama administration didn't provide sanitary conditions for minors either.
This country is broken regardless of which side you're looking from. Still....I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
This whole issue is so wrong on so many levels, and you can certainly point to both sides of the political aisle. The current issue and the subject of this thread is the perfect example of how politicians will exploit anything purely for political reasons.
You have democrats saying how "kids are held in cages" and some even going so far as to call them "concentration camps" and pointing out the sanitary conditions. However, they refuse to do anything about it, especially address the root cause of why these people are in these detention centers. The people are there because they BROKE THE LAW. There are children there that have NO DNA associated with the "adults" that they came with. The bigger question is WHY ARE THEY THERE? It's because of the "sanctuary cities", the fact that they can get "assistance" and the fact that it's relatively easy to get across the border then claim "asylum". Democrats are doing the same thing to these children (exploiting them) that the "coyotes" did when they "assigned" children to people as they came across the border.
That's just part of the crisis at the border. The other crisis is the amount of drugs (specifically opioids), criminals and gang members that are coming across. Securing the border and stopping the flow should be the first priority.
Sadly the young kids who really have no say are being caught up in this mess and are being needlessly traumatized and victimized. It pisses me off to no end. And the politicians all around are parading their tragedy around like shameless whores. These people should be ashamed of themselves but they're not. Makes me sick.