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Full Version: ** The Official 2019-2020 Dem Debate Thread **
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(07-02-2019, 10:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-02-2019, 08:53 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]From your own article...

"Is the current deal working?
In October, President Trump refused to certify that Iran complied with the accord, accusing the country of "not living up to the spirit" of the pact." From day one, he suggested they were never in compliance and the only reason he did certify a time or two was to get his people to research a bit while following the disputed measure in the agreement.

Anytime you have to refer to a piece of foreign policy as a deal; it is not an honest effort towards the stated end game. This 'deal' was a bust from the beginning and more of a financial agreement than a nuclear non-proliferation agreement. Compliance was solely through distance monitoring and Iranian report submittal. Inspectors were never going to be allowed access to any location other than what was initially submitted by Iran. Yep, that's legit. Furthermore, equipment not domesticaly produced and the material associated, ie. Russian, Chinese, etc. does not get marked against the equipment or materials listings and banned amounts. This thing was a mess and reads like one of the worst "voluntary" contracts I've ever seen. It is impossible to verify total compliance. You can read it yourself below:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentclou...r-deal.pdf

The thing about fissile material is that it radiates.  The by-products and beta particles spread for miles. As long as you're reasonably close to the suspected source, and have working equipment, you'll be able to figure out if things are ramping up or down.

Beta particles are electrons or positrons. They are blocked by mere aluminum foil, and pretty much anything else. U235 fission releases neutrons or decays via alpha particle (helium nucleii) decay. Alpha particles are also stopped by pretty much anything. The neutrons can penetrate farther since they don't have an electric charge, but not through any reasonable containment. Presumably someone illegally creating bomb material would put enough containment around it to hide the fact.
(07-02-2019, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-02-2019, 10:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The thing about fissile material is that it radiates.  The by-products and beta particles spread for miles. As long as you're reasonably close to the suspected source, and have working equipment, you'll be able to figure out if things are ramping up or down.

Beta particles are electrons or positrons. They are blocked by mere aluminum foil, and pretty much anything else. U235 fission releases neutrons or decays via alpha particle (helium nucleii) decay. Alpha particles are also stopped by pretty much anything. The neutrons can penetrate farther since they don't have an electric charge, but not through any reasonable containment. Presumably someone illegally creating bomb material would put enough containment around it to hide the fact.

Beta particles do escape, but the real action is in detecting the by product isotopes in soil, air and in the dust. 
There's also the fact that creating a facility with those kind of barriers around it is noticeable on satellite imagery.
(07-01-2019, 09:29 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-01-2019, 04:47 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Dude... you are so way off in this argument it isn't even funny anymore.

You will literally argue for evil just to be against something Trump has done.

You quite possibly have THE WORST case of TDS ever.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-sec...ar-program

"The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) last week admitted an inconvenient truth. The U.N. watchdog, said Yukiya Amano, has proven unable to verify Iran’s compliance with Section T of the 2015 nuclear deal, which prohibits activities that could contribute to the development of a nuclear explosive device."

"Contrary to widespread media reporting, the IAEA has never fully certified Iran’s compliance with the JCPOA."

The Iran deal was a bad deal made by a bad POTUS backed by a bunch of European idiots who lean on the US to pay for all of the meddling and nonsense that goes on over there.
Iran didn't even fully comply with the "deal" and it did nothing to improve the situation in the Middle East.


It is absolutely laughable that you can even try to defend, not just the deal

That article was filed under opinion.
The usually credible website allowed that man to publish with a byline explaining who pays him.
The organization named gets most of its money from Sheldon Adelson.

But I don't think either of us like to dismiss things just because people we've disagreed with in the past wrote them.

So I read the article to see if it made sense. And it did make sense, but in the wrong way.
The headline of the article says that the IAEA never certified Iran as being fully compliant with the treaty.
But as the article goes on to explain, the task of certifying was left to the seven individual member countries of the treaty. The IAEA consists of many more than just seven countries.
Each of the seven countries was authorized to have a certain number of representatives on the ground with certain instruments to observe certain things.
And then the President of each country was to get those seven reports and make his or her own decision about if the reports said that all parties were complying with the treaty.
You should remember this, because early in Donald Trump's term, he had to issue some of these declarations. Trump himself certified that Iran was complying with what was required by the treaty, before he ultimately decided to cancel US participation in the treaty altogether.
When Trump pulled out, he did not claim that Iran was violating the treaty. He just said that it was a bad treaty.

Point stands though. The IAEA while maybe not corrupt per se, is and can be incompetent and make errors in judgement calls.

It's silly to think that giving Iran all that we did up front would make the comply after the fact.
It was a bad treaty and we can see now that they are not holding up to their end, considering they still have the treaty in place with the other countries.

Iran is bad.
And this deal just made it easier on them to do bad things.

There's no two ways about it.
Trump said they were complying because the people in charge falsely told him they were.

The IAEA basically said "yeah, they're complying" without properly checking if they were.
Couple years later we see how little they actually were complying. Their uranium levels are way up.
The enemies of America will always find defenders.
(07-02-2019, 12:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-02-2019, 11:29 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]
Beta particles are electrons or positrons. They are blocked by mere aluminum foil, and pretty much anything else. U235 fission releases neutrons or decays via alpha particle (helium nucleii) decay. Alpha particles are also stopped by pretty much anything. The neutrons can penetrate farther since they don't have an electric charge, but not through any reasonable containment. Presumably someone illegally creating bomb material would put enough containment around it to hide the fact.

Beta particles do escape, but the real action is in detecting the by product isotopes in soil, air and in the dust. 
There's also the fact that creating a facility with those kind of barriers around it is noticeable on satellite imagery.
The facilities already exist and are known, yet the IAEA cannot monitor these sites. Iran doesn't even have to try and hide them as they are off-limits as agreed upon. As far as detecting, if allowed, so what? U-235 has a half-life of over 700 million years, which means if it was once stored in a location, it is still detected there even if moved. If we talk about processing, the off-gases of can be defeated by a simple HEPA filter. Once again, there is no efficient or credible detection method to hold Iran accountable.
(07-02-2019, 01:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The enemies of America will always find defenders.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
This minimum wage/staffer thing ends Bernie's campaign, right? How can it go on? Does he still have donors?
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