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Would improve 2 LB positions upon return. DAS IT.

ANYONE HAVE UPDATES??!?!?!

Can't return to practice till next week at earliest.

Myles is an extremely likeable guy, but I just wonder if he’s just not smart enough to be an NFL MLB? He seems relatively well spoken, and comes off smart. Wonder why he can’t put it together on the field. Hopefully it’s just the learning curve to greatness. Time will tell I suppose.

Unlike Jake Ryan who is a pure MLB, Myles Jack played outside LB/RB in college. Now we expect Ryan to play OLB and Jack to play MLB. We've got too many guys playing out of position. If we were smart, when Ryan returned, we'd have him playing MLB and move Jack to WLB, but that will never happen.

(10-07-2019, 03:55 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike Jake Ryan who is a pure MLB, Myles Jack played outside LB/RB in college. Now we expect Ryan to play OLB and Jack to play MLB. We've got too many guys playing out of position. If we were smart, when Ryan returned, we'd have him playing MLB and move Jack to WLB, but that will never happen.

Shhhhhh. Been saying that since the off-season but hey..... whatever I guess.

(10-07-2019, 04:06 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 03:55 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike Jake Ryan who is a pure MLB, Myles Jack played outside LB/RB in college. Now we expect Ryan to play OLB and Jack to play MLB. We've got too many guys playing out of position. If we were smart, when Ryan returned, we'd have him playing MLB and move Jack to WLB, but that will never happen.

Shhhhhh. Been saying that since the off-season but hey..... whatever I guess.

Why is this evident to us, but not the people in charge?

(10-07-2019, 04:09 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:06 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Shhhhhh. Been saying that since the off-season but hey..... whatever I guess.

Why is this evident to us, but not the people in charge?

They just really want Jack to become Bobby Wagner, but it clearly ain't happnin

(10-07-2019, 04:09 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:06 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Shhhhhh. Been saying that since the off-season but hey..... whatever I guess.

Why is this evident to us, but not the people in charge?

I don't know anymore. All I remember is that when Jack played outside he was a play making machine. The picks, the fumble recoveries, etc. He just doesn't seem to make any plays being stuck inside. He doesn't have enough experience there and I know it was one bad game but he's been out of position here and there since Paul Posluszny retired and he was asked to step in to fill his shoes. 

I was high on that kid from LSU before thankfully the Buccaneers drafted him and Josh Allen fell into their laps. But he would have been an ideal addition to this linebacking core. Troy Dye, Malik Harrison & Jacob Phillips might be day two or early day three targets if this defense continues to slip against the run.

(10-07-2019, 04:06 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 03:55 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Unlike Jake Ryan who is a pure MLB, Myles Jack played outside LB/RB in college. Now we expect Ryan to play OLB and Jack to play MLB. We've got too many guys playing out of position. If we were smart, when Ryan returned, we'd have him playing MLB and move Jack to WLB, but that will never happen.

Shhhhhh. Been saying that since the off-season but hey..... whatever I guess.

A lot of us was

(10-07-2019, 04:27 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:06 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Shhhhhh. Been saying that since the off-season but hey..... whatever I guess.

A lot of us was

I can't remember who it was on here. But I caught a ration of [BLEEP] for even thinking about it. To me it was an obvious move that needed to be made. He's better playing outside Vs. inside. And there's a good chance if they did have a more experienced ILB fielding this defense that those huge runs yesterday don't happen. 

Jack's made some impressive plays on the outside. I still remember his game against the Jets in a losing effort. But he practically saved a long run that should have been a TD. Made some other crazy [BLEEP] FR or INT.

The Steelers game in the play-off's I think he made some more plays on the outside. Obviously the Myles Jack wasn't down happened on the outside. He just seems to be more "natural" playing on the outside. They still have the rest of the year to see if he can figure it out. But if they don't there's a good chance they're going to have to move him outside and look for a legitimate ILB to man it down. 

And that's if Todd Wash still has a job here in 2020. That's another question mark.

(10-07-2019, 04:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:27 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of us was

I can't remember who it was on here. But I caught a ration of [BLEEP] for even thinking about it. To me it was an obvious move that needed to be made. He's better playing outside Vs. inside. And there's a good chance if they did have a more experienced ILB fielding this defense that those huge runs yesterday don't happen. 

Jack's made some impressive plays on the outside. I still remember his game against the Jets in a losing effort. But he practically saved a long run that should have been a TD. Made some other crazy [BLEEP] FR or INT.

The Steelers game in the play-off's I think he made some more plays on the outside. Obviously the Myles Jack wasn't down happened on the outside. He just seems to be more "natural" playing on the outside. They still have the rest of the year to see if he can figure it out. But if they don't there's a good chance they're going to have to move him outside and look for a legitimate ILB to man it down. 

And that's if Todd Wash still has a job here in 2020. That's another question mark.

I think they absolutely did the right thing by seeing it through with Jack to find out if he could be Wash's Bobby Wagner in the middle.
His skill set looked like it was worth a try to me.  I was wrong in the end. 
He's not able to play the run well enough on early downs (and his coverage seems to have regressed this year rather than improved.) 

The greater mistake they made was paying him before he proved it.

Jake Ryan certainly has the talent to be one of the best ILB's in the NFL. Unfortunately, he has had an injury plagued career and has seen limited playing time because of it. Between him and Oliver, I don't know if either will play this season.

(10-07-2019, 04:52 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I can't remember who it was on here. But I caught a ration of [BLEEP] for even thinking about it. To me it was an obvious move that needed to be made. He's better playing outside Vs. inside. And there's a good chance if they did have a more experienced ILB fielding this defense that those huge runs yesterday don't happen. 

Jack's made some impressive plays on the outside. I still remember his game against the Jets in a losing effort. But he practically saved a long run that should have been a TD. Made some other crazy [BLEEP] FR or INT.

The Steelers game in the play-off's I think he made some more plays on the outside. Obviously the Myles Jack wasn't down happened on the outside. He just seems to be more "natural" playing on the outside. They still have the rest of the year to see if he can figure it out. But if they don't there's a good chance they're going to have to move him outside and look for a legitimate ILB to man it down. 

And that's if Todd Wash still has a job here in 2020. That's another question mark.

I think they absolutely did the right thing by seeing it through with Jack to find out if he could be Wash's Bobby Wagner in the middle.
His skill set looked like it was worth a try to me.  I was wrong in the end. 
He's not able to play the run well enough on early downs (and his coverage seems to have regressed this year rather than improved.) 

The greater mistake they made was paying him before he proved it.

Wagner is probably a future HOF.  He doesnt have to be a future HOFer he just need to be a good LB where he isnt a liability

(10-07-2019, 04:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:27 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of us was

I can't remember who it was on here. But I caught a ration of [BLEEP] for even thinking about it. To me it was an obvious move that needed to be made. He's better playing outside Vs. inside. And there's a good chance if they did have a more experienced ILB fielding this defense that those huge runs yesterday don't happen. 

Jack's made some impressive plays on the outside. I still remember his game against the Jets in a losing effort. But he practically saved a long run that should have been a TD. Made some other crazy [BLEEP] FR or INT.

The Steelers game in the play-off's I think he made some more plays on the outside. Obviously the Myles Jack wasn't down happened on the outside. He just seems to be more "natural" playing on the outside. They still have the rest of the year to see if he can figure it out. But if they don't there's a good chance they're going to have to move him outside and look for a legitimate ILB to man it down. 

And that's if Todd Wash still has a job here in 2020. That's another question mark.

Jack is at his best when he is playing outside and can use his athleticism and can do more free lancing and not as much responsibilities.  Where he dont have to think as much.  To me it seems like he is thinking to much and guessing more instead of just letting the game come to him and let his instincts kick in like Poz did and the great LBs in the past.

(10-07-2019, 04:52 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I can't remember who it was on here. But I caught a ration of [BLEEP] for even thinking about it. To me it was an obvious move that needed to be made. He's better playing outside Vs. inside. And there's a good chance if they did have a more experienced ILB fielding this defense that those huge runs yesterday don't happen. 

Jack's made some impressive plays on the outside. I still remember his game against the Jets in a losing effort. But he practically saved a long run that should have been a TD. Made some other crazy [BLEEP] FR or INT.

The Steelers game in the play-off's I think he made some more plays on the outside. Obviously the Myles Jack wasn't down happened on the outside. He just seems to be more "natural" playing on the outside. They still have the rest of the year to see if he can figure it out. But if they don't there's a good chance they're going to have to move him outside and look for a legitimate ILB to man it down. 

And that's if Todd Wash still has a job here in 2020. That's another question mark.

I think they absolutely did the right thing by seeing it through with Jack to find out if he could be Wash's Bobby Wagner in the middle.
His skill set looked like it was worth a try to me.  I was wrong in the end. 
He's not able to play the run well enough on early downs (and his coverage seems to have regressed this year rather than improved.) 

The greater mistake they made was paying him before he proved it.

 
Where have i heard this before?????

(10-07-2019, 05:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-07-2019, 04:52 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I think they absolutely did the right thing by seeing it through with Jack to find out if he could be Wash's Bobby Wagner in the middle.
His skill set looked like it was worth a try to me.  I was wrong in the end. 
He's not able to play the run well enough on early downs (and his coverage seems to have regressed this year rather than improved.) 

The greater mistake they made was paying him before he proved it.

Wagner is probably a future HOF.  He doesnt have to be a future HOFer he just need to be a good LB where he isnt a liability

I'm talking about the role in the scheme and the traits that they drafted him for.

(10-07-2019, 04:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]The Steelers game in the play-off's I think he made some more plays on the outside. Obviously the Myles Jack wasn't down happened on the outside. He just seems to be more "natural" playing on the outside. They still have the rest of the year to see if he can figure it out. But if they don't there's a good chance they're going to have to move him outside and look for a legitimate ILB to man it down. 

And that's if Todd Wash still has a job here in 2020. That's another question mark.

While I don't disagree that outside is probably his natural position and that he's playing bad now, all those playoff plays in 2017-18 happened when we were in nickel and him and Telvin were the only LBs on the field with Myles calling the plays.
Talking about the pass defensed against Bills which lead to Colvin INT, the INT against the Steelers and the Myleswasntdown play, Poz was never on the field on those.

Again, I don't disagree that we need a true MLB but I also don't think that this is really Myles real level even inside, the guy seems to be thinking too much and worrying about guys around him too much at times, getting them lined up and all that. Probably with good reason as obviously all the holes that were there yesterday weren't all on him, it was a team disaster on that front.

Quincy Williams has been out of position quite a bit as well (Austen Lane did a nice breakdown on how Flacco was looking at him and picking on him more than Herndon on the final drive last week), Ronnie Harrison has made some poor poor decisions and positioning to start this season, the d-line is far from being disciplined against the run (honestly at times it feels they still only have "Sacksonville" on their mind)

Sadly Ryan won't likely be playing this year and we'll never know what approach they'd take with our current struggles but I agree that it's time to think about possibly some changes. Not only at LBs, I'd probably go with some heavier fronts as well on 1st and 2nd down. Yannick is far from being good against the run so far, Dareus isn't himself (injury or not, he also lost weight to rush the passer this offseason), Abry Jones finally made one play yesterday after 5 weeks.
Lots to clean up, that's for sure.

Ryan might not be back for weeks, I wouldnt mind signing Marshall. Not very good in coverage, but decent run defender. Kind of concerning he isnt signed tho

The problem with Myles Jack is that they put entirely too much on his plate early. I think a lot of people forget, including myself sometimes, that he's still young. He just turned 24 just before the start of the season. He was really rotated back and forth at UCLA between LB and RB and then he tore his knee up in 2015 and ended up being an early 2nd RD pick (that was touted as 1st RD talent) during the 2016 draft.

He only had TWO decent years of experience in college at LB and some of his learning was hindered by being depended upon to carry it on offense at RB. And then the injury obviously sets him back another year for experience. He still has a lot of learning to do. I don't mind his contract extension. I think they went ahead and sealed the deal with him after Jerry Jones went all in on Jaylon Smith.

Makes sense on paper. Especially with him being 24 years old. What we're seeing this year is just a general lack of overall experience on defense virtually across the entire back end. It's hard enough to play any position in the NFL. It's especially harder when you lack a veteran presence that's been around the block for years on end.

We went from Ramsey, Bouye, Gipson, Church, Smith & Posluszny to Herndon, Bouye, Harrison, Wilson, Williams & Alexander/Jacobs all within a year in a half. It's a combination of him having to think but also trying to over compensate at his position where he's also having to rely on four other guys with very, very limited experience behind him or around him. I hope they turn it around. I really do.

It's frustrating that Ramsey has chosen to show his [BLEEP]. Just like Telvin Smith decided to show his [BLEEP] during the off season and essentially force this front office to address his position by investing a decent 3rd RD pick at his position. He essentially cost his team a potential addition to the offense or other area of need on defense. And that's AFTER he got paid and UNDER performed last year at his position.

Maybe they could have traded back without that need for another LB six months ago. They could have added more depth to the offensive line. It's too early to tell right now if whether or not Williams will pan out or if another impact player will emerge at a different position of need. But it's that kind of attitude that's really hurt this team.

And finally, when they appear to have found a QB in Minshew. These guys are not around to hold up their end of the bargain. But they were all in with Blake "I Love Budlight More Than Football" Bortles just a year or two ago. I think we've seen a lot of growing pains. But I am slowly starting to side back with Coughlin, Marrone, Caldwell & Khan with what they've tried to accomplish here.

Need more team players. And less divas. I'll be glad when they trade Jalen Ramsey off and he's unhappy at his next destination. I'll be glad when Telvin Smith is off the roster for good. They don't want to be here. I know a lot of fans are divided over that. But I am not. It's a team sport. Not a me sport. Get what you can get out of him. Add some more high character guys. High effort guys. I'll take Josh Allen, Yannick Ngakoue, Ronnie Harrison, Quincy Williams, Dawuane Smoot & Myles Jack over Jalen Ramsey all day, every day.