Much as I 'd like to see Minshew play, I just don't see who'd take Foles for the rate he's getting paid right now. Tampa Bay? Chicago?
I don't think Caldwell has the ability to make that magic happen. I think we're stuck with Foles until he calls it a career - which, if he gets laid out badly a few more times, might be within the next year or so...
But even then as much as I hope Minshew CAN be the guy....WILL he? I like him a lot, but with two first rounders these next four years....does it make sense to risk not picking a QB again? I don' t know. It sucks because it seems like every time there's an opportunity for a solid QB to get drafted, Jacksonville passes, and it always bites them in the [BLEEP] - save for what they may have in Minshew this year
(11-19-2019, 08:54 AM)Nikowho Wrote: [ -> ]Much as I 'd like to see Minshew play, I just don't see who'd take Foles for the rate he's getting paid right now. Tampa Bay? Chicago?
I don't think Caldwell has the ability to make that magic happen. I think we're stuck with Foles until he calls it a career - which, if he gets laid out badly a few more times, might be within the next year or so...
But even then as much as I hope Minshew CAN be the guy....WILL he? I like him a lot, but with two first rounders these next four years....does it make sense to risk not picking a QB again? I don' t know. It sucks because it seems like every time there's an opportunity for a solid QB to get drafted, Jacksonville passes, and it always bites them in the [BLEEP] - save for what they may have in Minshew this year
This.. I keep saying it. I realize it could be a completely idiotic pick in hindsight as Minshew looks like he could be the real deal. This team is overdue a franchise QB we can build around for years to come. It’s been our second biggest problem just behind coaching for nearly two decades.
I see a great qb in Minshew and he’s super fun to watch. But the trademark of a franchise QB is elevating his team to win a clutch game. Minshew has yet to do that. We have all at some point bought in on a qb in the past and watched the jags pass on some really great qbs. I would LOVE to be wrong and see Minshew completely ball out next year. I like the kid a lot. Otherwise, we need to error on the side of caution and grab a decent QB in this draft. I would rather have two gunslingers that could develop into THE guy....
(11-19-2019, 08:54 AM)Nikowho Wrote: [ -> ]Much as I 'd like to see Minshew play, I just don't see who'd take Foles for the rate he's getting paid right now. Tampa Bay? Chicago?
I don't think Caldwell has the ability to make that magic happen. I think we're stuck with Foles until he calls it a career - which, if he gets laid out badly a few more times, might be within the next year or so...
But even then as much as I hope Minshew CAN be the guy....WILL he? I like him a lot, but with two first rounders these next four years....does it make sense to risk not picking a QB again? I don' t know. It sucks because it seems like every time there's an opportunity for a solid QB to get drafted, Jacksonville passes, and it always bites them in the [BLEEP] - save for what they may have in Minshew this year
A little info and perspective on this:
The Jags can simply keep Foles in 2020 whether he's the starter or the back up and then use the two-year out clause in his contract saving around 43 mil on his contract total.
The assumption that he has no trade value is premature. He's going to play a few more games and still has time to get something good on tape. If he can manage to do that and a team finds itself desperate with an injured starting QB next season - he could still be traded. It's not all that far fetched. Every year 3 or 4 starting QBs get hurt before the trade deadline.
I also think it's probably not wise to assume Foles first game back from a broken collarbone is his ceiling for the remainder of the season.
Just my attempt at a level-headed stance on this situation. Flame away.
If he's the guy then why did he get benched. Trade up and get a real QB, Joe Brady Burrow. Don't keep players around thinking they'll eventually be good, waiting and waiting and waiting then finally realizing it's not working because that's so hashtag because jaguars.
(11-19-2019, 07:00 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 01:13 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]To me, this does not sound like a guy who has the self confidence to be an NFL starter. He thinks he can be "a guy" in the NFL? I want my potential future starting QB to say he can be one of "the elite guys" in the NFL. You need your QB to have a swagger about him. Minshew has a great personality, but I'm not seeing that self confidence on the field. Maybe it will come in time. I hope so, but I found his words a little troubling.
Then he would sound unwisely cocky. He’s a good ball player with big potential who was humbled on the big stage by truly elite players. It’s best to keep it low key. I think you’re reading too much into semantics.
Lot's of football players are cocky, when it comes to their play. It shows self confidence. As long as they don't let it spill off the field, I like it. Guys like Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes and Drew Brees all have a little cockiness to them, when it comes to their on the field play. When the game is on the line, they want to burden to be on their shoulders, because they believe they will always win. In order for a QB to be successful, you have to have that kind of mindset.
(11-19-2019, 10:03 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 08:54 AM)Nikowho Wrote: [ -> ]Much as I 'd like to see Minshew play, I just don't see who'd take Foles for the rate he's getting paid right now. Tampa Bay? Chicago?
I don't think Caldwell has the ability to make that magic happen. I think we're stuck with Foles until he calls it a career - which, if he gets laid out badly a few more times, might be within the next year or so...
But even then as much as I hope Minshew CAN be the guy....WILL he? I like him a lot, but with two first rounders these next four years....does it make sense to risk not picking a QB again? I don' t know. It sucks because it seems like every time there's an opportunity for a solid QB to get drafted, Jacksonville passes, and it always bites them in the [BLEEP] - save for what they may have in Minshew this year
A little info and perspective on this:
The Jags can simply keep Foles in 2020 whether he's the starter or the back up and then use the two-year out clause in his contract saving around 43 mil on his contract total.
The assumption that he has no trade value is premature. He's going to play a few more games and still has time to get something good on tape. If he can manage to do that and a team finds itself desperate with an injured starting QB next season - he could still be traded. It's not all that far fetched. Every year 3 or 4 starting QBs get hurt before the trade deadline.
I also think it's probably not wise to assume Foles first game back from a broken collarbone is his ceiling for the remainder of the season.
Just my attempt at a level-headed stance on this situation. Flame away.
Foles would be a pricey back up, but Matt Flynn was once a pricey backup for Wilson, so it happens and is possible.
My stance on the trade thing is that a lot of teams are set at QB. The ones that aren't have some solid choices in the coming draft. In addition a guy on Foles level can be had in FA for cheaper than his contract, I think, plus a guy like Cam may be available.
But in the injury scenario you state, it becomes more plausible.
I also don't think Foles first game back, which wasn't good but wasn't exactly terrible either, is all he has to show. A little rusty could be to explain for his off target passes and forcing to Chark a bit.
If it is more of the same vs the tacks and and especially the Bucs (who have a bad defense by all accounts) then perhaps the hand wringing will be a bit more warranted. (Though I'm still not sure fans will get what they want in way of Minshew back in the starting lineup)
(11-19-2019, 01:31 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]If he's the guy then why did he get benched. Trade up and get a real QB, Joe Brady Burrow. Don't keep players around thinking they'll eventually be good, waiting and waiting and waiting then finally realizing it's not working because that's so hashtag because jaguars.
You can't just magically trade up to the #1 position, which is what it would take to get Burrow. This isn't Madden '20. We have many holes to fill. I'm happy with fixing other areas and evaluating the QB position in 2021. We'll still have 2 first round draft picks in that draft too.
(11-19-2019, 01:31 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]If he's the guy then why did he get benched. Trade up and get a real QB, Joe Brady Burrow. Don't keep players around thinking they'll eventually be good, waiting and waiting and waiting then finally realizing it's not working because that's so hashtag because jaguars.
Cuz he's a 6th round rookie and Foles was paid a lot to be the savior.
Right or wrong, that is why Minshew was benched.
(11-19-2019, 01:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 01:31 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]If he's the guy then why did he get benched. Trade up and get a real QB, Joe Brady Burrow. Don't keep players around thinking they'll eventually be good, waiting and waiting and waiting then finally realizing it's not working because that's so hashtag because jaguars.
You can't just magically trade up to the #1 position, which is what it would take to get Burrow. This isn't Madden '20. We have many holes to fill. I'm happy with fixing other areas and evaluating the QB position in 2021. We'll still have 2 first round draft picks in that draft too.
So much this.
Especially if a guy like Jacob Eason doesn't declare this year.
He'd be a solid target for 2021
Or Fields
Mond maybe
I think Brock Purdy is an intriguing prospect...
Anyways... I don't think 2020 is the year to make yet another knee jerk reaction to QB.
Let the Foles/Minshew thing play out, build a solid team (OL) around whoever the QB is and reassess that position in 2021, hopefully with a much improved OL and retooled back 7 on D
Don't look too hard into that comment. He was trying to avoid a scene if he's had said "the guy". You know how the media would have spun that one.
(11-19-2019, 01:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 10:03 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A little info and perspective on this:
The Jags can simply keep Foles in 2020 whether he's the starter or the back up and then use the two-year out clause in his contract saving around 43 mil on his contract total.
The assumption that he has no trade value is premature. He's going to play a few more games and still has time to get something good on tape. If he can manage to do that and a team finds itself desperate with an injured starting QB next season - he could still be traded. It's not all that far fetched. Every year 3 or 4 starting QBs get hurt before the trade deadline.
I also think it's probably not wise to assume Foles first game back from a broken collarbone is his ceiling for the remainder of the season.
Just my attempt at a level-headed stance on this situation. Flame away.
Foles would be a pricey back up, but Matt Flynn was once a pricey backup for Wilson, so it happens and is possible.
My stance on the trade thing is that a lot of teams are set at QB. The ones that aren't have some solid choices in the coming draft. In addition a guy on Foles level can be had in FA for cheaper than his contract, I think, plus a guy like Cam may be available.
But in the injury scenario you state, it becomes more plausible.
I also don't think Foles first game back, which wasn't good but wasn't exactly terrible either, is all he has to show. A little rusty could be to explain for his off target passes and forcing to Chark a bit.
If it is more of the same vs the tacks and and especially the Bucs (who have a bad defense by all accounts) then perhaps the hand wringing will be a bit more warranted. (Though I'm still not sure fans will get what they want in way of Minshew back in the starting lineup)
I'm not the least bit concerned about Foles being a pricey backup for one season if that's indeed how it works out.
It will mean we hit really well on a 6th round QB. I'll happily accept that consequence in return.
People complain all the time that the F.O. doesn't do enough to address the position. They want contingencies.
Well, this is simply the result of a contingency potentially turning into a viable starter.
(11-19-2019, 01:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 10:03 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A little info and perspective on this:
The Jags can simply keep Foles in 2020 whether he's the starter or the back up and then use the two-year out clause in his contract saving around 43 mil on his contract total.
The assumption that he has no trade value is premature. He's going to play a few more games and still has time to get something good on tape. If he can manage to do that and a team finds itself desperate with an injured starting QB next season - he could still be traded. It's not all that far fetched. Every year 3 or 4 starting QBs get hurt before the trade deadline.
I also think it's probably not wise to assume Foles first game back from a broken collarbone is his ceiling for the remainder of the season.
Just my attempt at a level-headed stance on this situation. Flame away.
Foles would be a pricey back up, but Matt Flynn was once a pricey backup for Wilson, so it happens and is possible.
My stance on the trade thing is that a lot of teams are set at QB. The ones that aren't have some solid choices in the coming draft. In addition a guy on Foles level can be had in FA for cheaper than his contract, I think, plus a guy like Cam may be available.
But in the injury scenario you state, it becomes more plausible.
I also don't think Foles first game back, which wasn't good but wasn't exactly terrible either, is all he has to show. A little rusty could be to explain for his off target passes and forcing to Chark a bit.
If it is more of the same vs the tacks and and especially the Bucs (who have a bad defense by all accounts) then perhaps the hand wringing will be a bit more warranted. (Though I'm still not sure fans will get what they want in way of Minshew back in the starting lineup)
This is simply not true. Let's look at the teams who are not set at QB for various reasons:
Chargers, Bucs, Titans, Bengals, Bears, Dolphins, Steelers, Broncos, Redskins, Panthers. That's 10 teams and roughly a 1/3 of the league. Seems like there are a lot of teams not set.
(11-19-2019, 02:30 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 01:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Foles would be a pricey back up, but Matt Flynn was once a pricey backup for Wilson, so it happens and is possible.
My stance on the trade thing is that a lot of teams are set at QB. The ones that aren't have some solid choices in the coming draft. In addition a guy on Foles level can be had in FA for cheaper than his contract, I think, plus a guy like Cam may be available.
But in the injury scenario you state, it becomes more plausible.
I also don't think Foles first game back, which wasn't good but wasn't exactly terrible either, is all he has to show. A little rusty could be to explain for his off target passes and forcing to Chark a bit.
If it is more of the same vs the tacks and and especially the Bucs (who have a bad defense by all accounts) then perhaps the hand wringing will be a bit more warranted. (Though I'm still not sure fans will get what they want in way of Minshew back in the starting lineup)
I'm not the least bit concerned about Foles being a pricey backup for one season if that's indeed how it works out.
It will mean we hit really well on a 6th round QB. I'll happily accept that consequence in return.
People complain all the time that the F.O. doesn't do enough to address the position. They want contingencies.
Well, this is simply the result of a contingency potentially turning into a viable starter.
Agree. If Foles is riding pine next year, so be it... I mean we're pretty much paying him and taking the cap hit either way.
(11-19-2019, 02:34 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 01:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Foles would be a pricey back up, but Matt Flynn was once a pricey backup for Wilson, so it happens and is possible.
My stance on the trade thing is that a lot of teams are set at QB. The ones that aren't have some solid choices in the coming draft. In addition a guy on Foles level can be had in FA for cheaper than his contract, I think, plus a guy like Cam may be available.
But in the injury scenario you state, it becomes more plausible.
I also don't think Foles first game back, which wasn't good but wasn't exactly terrible either, is all he has to show. A little rusty could be to explain for his off target passes and forcing to Chark a bit.
If it is more of the same vs the tacks and and especially the Bucs (who have a bad defense by all accounts) then perhaps the hand wringing will be a bit more warranted. (Though I'm still not sure fans will get what they want in way of Minshew back in the starting lineup)
This is simply not true. Let's look at the teams who are not set at QB for various reasons:
Chargers, Bucs, Titans, Bengals, Bears, Dolphins, Steelers, Broncos, Redskins, Panthers. That's 10 teams and roughly a 1/3 of the league. Seems like there are a lot of teams not set.
It is true. Because of their recent decisions many of those teams have a young QB ready...
Broncos JUST drafted Lock and have Brandon Allen as a vet placeholder if they decide to keep Lock on the bench (they wont)
Skins JUST drafted Haskins (Also still have Alex Smith)
Panthers either keep Cam or roll with Allen who has looked pretty good (and is cheap)
Tannehill has actually looked pretty good for tacks and if they started him at the beginning of the year, they'd probably be in better shape. But if they go after QB, they want a young one, not another stop gap like what they have in Tannehill or what we have in Foles.
Steelers -- Big Ben isn't done yet and if he is Rudolph was just drafted recently, doubt they give up on him so quick (even though he sucks, I tend to think Big Ben comes back for one more year)
So Bucs (although I've heard they may want to hang on to Winston)
bungles, Bears, Phins.
That's 4 teams with no answer at QB at all, assuming the Phins are giving up on Rosen (as they should.
Burrow, Fromm, Tua, and Herbert are all probable 1st round QBs.
Then that leaves Rosen, Dalton, Mariota, and Flacco as stop gap guys that can be had for about the same or maybe less than Foles, without giving up anything. Perhaps Eli is still wanting to play as well... plus the litany of other stop gap journeyman QBs that Foles really isn't head and shoulders better than.
I'm just not seeing the trade market for Foles
(11-19-2019, 02:18 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew > Burrow.
This has to be a joke. If not, it's the worst take on football that I've seen in 48 years.
(11-19-2019, 06:05 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 02:18 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew > Burrow.
This has to be a joke. If not, it's the worst take on football that I've seen in 48 years.
Technically..... Gardner's done pretty good in the NFL... Burrow's done zero in the NFL. lol
(11-19-2019, 06:05 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 02:18 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew > Burrow.
This has to be a joke. If not, it's the worst take on football that I've seen in 48 years.
You must not read your own posts too often then. And say what you want, GM15 is .500 as a rookie starter, Burrow will be lucky to live through his 1st three games in Cincinnati next year.
(11-19-2019, 11:31 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 06:05 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This has to be a joke. If not, it's the worst take on football that I've seen in 48 years.
You must not read your own posts too often then. And say what you want, GM15 is .500 as a rookie starter, Burrow will be lucky to live through his 1st three games in Cincinnati next year.
Am I not allowed to change my opinion? As of right now, strictly based on talent, Burrow is much better than Minshew. That is not a knock against Minshew, it's just simply how good Burrow is. I don't see much weakness in his game at all. The steady improvement he made at LSU was nice, but this year he ascended to a level few college QB's have reached and he did it in the SEC. How will he fare in Cincinnati? Who knows? If they don't do something about that pathetic O-Line, Aaron Rodgers couldn't even survive there.
(11-20-2019, 12:26 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2019, 11:31 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You must not read your own posts too often then. And say what you want, GM15 is .500 as a rookie starter, Burrow will be lucky to live through his 1st three games in Cincinnati next year.
Am I not allowed to change my opinion? As of right now, strictly based on talent, Burrow is much better than Minshew. That is not a knock against Minshew, it's just simply how good Burrow is. I don't see much weakness in his game at all. The steady improvement he made at LSU was nice, but this year he ascended to a level few college QB's have reached and he did it in the SEC. How will he fare in Cincinnati? Who knows? If they don't do something about that pathetic O-Line, Aaron Rodgers couldn't even survive there.
What a player does in college football != what a player will do in the NFL.