At this point in the season, what good would it do to change coaches? We'd just have to hire from within or get some old re-treads without jobs right now, because no team is gonna allow us to interview their top coordinators during the season. I don't know if it would even be allowed or if that would be considered tampering. We are pretty much done anyway unless we win out. I believe Khan recognizes what needs to be done and when the season ends, Marrone and his staff will be shown the door, possibly Coughlin too. At that time we can work on rebuilding, but at this point, we're painted into a corner and there's no good options until the season ends.
(11-20-2019, 03:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]At this point in the season, what good would it do to change coaches? We'd just have to hire from within or get some old re-treads without jobs right now, because no team is gonna allow us to interview their top coordinators during the season. I don't know if it would even be allowed or if that would be considered tampering. We are pretty much done anyway unless we win out. I believe Khan recognizes what needs to be done and when the season ends, Marrone and his staff will be shown the door, possibly Coughlin too. At that time we can work on rebuilding, but at this point, we're painted into a corner and there's no good options until the season ends.
Hey. At least we aren't the Redskins!
(11-20-2019, 03:12 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]At this point in the season, what good would it do to change coaches? We'd just have to hire from within or get some old re-treads without jobs right now, because no team is gonna allow us to interview their top coordinators during the season. I don't know if it would even be allowed or if that would be considered tampering. We are pretty much done anyway unless we win out. I believe Khan recognizes what needs to be done and when the season ends, Marrone and his staff will be shown the door, possibly Coughlin too. At that time we can work on rebuilding, but at this point, we're painted into a corner and there's no good options until the season ends.
Hey. At least we aren't the Redskins!
Plus we have more talent than the Dolphins rn.
The franchise with 4 playoff home games in a quarter of a century is used to their season being over in November. The draft is the highlight of our year.
(11-20-2019, 03:01 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 01:08 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Biggest issue with the FO draft (including the Coughlin babysitting years) is first rounders.
Joker whiff (this whole draft was trash really)
Bortles whiff and they extended him instead of playing out 5th year option... and his cap hit added to our cap woes. This draft wasn't really great overall either.
Fowler whiff, no longer with team did net some draft picks in trade but never lived up to draft status and wasn't built for 43 end, more of a 34 rush backer as evidenced by his short time in LA, another draft with meh overall results.
Ramsey Easy pick, shouldn't have slid to us, but no longer with team due to contract issues and FO handling... however, did net us 2 firsts. This was the home run draft. Ramsey, Jack, Yan. But Jack is regressing... and Yan in contract dispute with FO.
LF He's OK, but not great, and not as good as Cook, CMC, or Kamara from the same draft. He's a certain type of RB playing in a scheme not suited for his style. Not a lot of home runs in this draft that includes Westbrook and Cann and not much else.
Bryan He's coming along OK but where our needs were didn't fit the selection. Also not really performing as you would want/expect a first rounder to. We could have had Jackson, Michel, Chubb, Darius Leonard, Sutton, Kirk, Goedert, or Connor Williams. Hindsight, sure, but still...
Allen Another lay up for this FO, easily the best player available, probably shouldn't have been available. Will this current FO be able to retain him or will they whiff on his contract down the road? We'll see how this draft turns out overall.
TL;DR
Caldwell's track record isn't great and Tom hasn't exactly 'fixed' much.
I recall 25% of folks being completely opposed to Bryan, the rest were neutral or admired his athleticism.
I don’t consider any draft pick a layup. I recall Dave and Tom getting in some ears of folks picking ahead of them to make some things happen. Draft day rumors are a [BLEEP]! We scored quite a few folks that should have not made it into our grasps.
I see issues with how we handle contracts. Valid concerns there.
I see major issues with how we develop talent. Our system and coaches seems to kill talent vs foster it. There have been many players that we have seen go to another system and ball out. I’m still not convinced in a better system, Bortles could have developed into a serviceable QB.
I wanted Michel or Chubb at RB. Got hammered for it. Bryan can still develop though. I blame coaching for his faults last year. They were making him play out of position and he didn't seem to click.
Moved him back inside this year and now you're seeing his ability to penetrate and disrupt the backfield more like he did as a Gator.
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(11-20-2019, 03:16 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:01 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]I recall 25% of folks being completely opposed to Bryan, the rest were neutral or admired his athleticism.
I don’t consider any draft pick a layup. I recall Dave and Tom getting in some ears of folks picking ahead of them to make some things happen. Draft day rumors are a [BLEEP]! We scored quite a few folks that should have not made it into our grasps.
I see issues with how we handle contracts. Valid concerns there.
I see major issues with how we develop talent. Our system and coaches seems to kill talent vs foster it. There have been many players that we have seen go to another system and ball out. I’m still not convinced in a better system, Bortles could have developed into a serviceable QB.
I wanted Michel or Chubb at RB. Got hammered for it. Bryan can still develop though. I blame coaching for his faults last year. They were making him play out of position and he didn't seem to click.
Moved him back inside this year and now you're seeing his ability to penetrate and disrupt the backfield more like he did as a Gator.
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And you should have gotten hammered for wanting Michel or Chubb. Chubb is better than Fournette but they both can't play on the field at the same time. Not to mention if you use back to back first round picks on RBs, you're not doing something right.
The first rounder in 2018 should have been a layup. Hernandez, Jackson and Goedert were all really easy calls.
(11-20-2019, 03:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:16 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted Michel or Chubb at RB. Got hammered for it. Bryan can still develop though. I blame coaching for his faults last year. They were making him play out of position and he didn't seem to click.
Moved him back inside this year and now you're seeing his ability to penetrate and disrupt the backfield more like he did as a Gator.
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And you should have gotten hammered for wanting Michel or Chubb. Chubb is better than Fournette but they both can't play on the field at the same time. Not to mention if you use back to back first round picks on RBs, you're not doing something right.
The first rounder in 2018 should have been a layup. Hernandez, Jackson and Goedert were all really easy calls.
I loved Chubb. He looked better to me than Gurley at GA before blowing out his knee and I felt he might be one of those 'normal' guys that take an extra year feeling things out after an ACL before being back to full strength. But you're right... It wouldn't have made sense to invest such a high pick on a RB again after drafting Fournette.
Jackson on the other hand, would have been the equivalent of drafting Chubb since the FO had extended Bortles.
I remember some division over the TEs at that point in the draft, but Hernandez... He sure seemed like a sure thing by the time the draft came around.
(11-20-2019, 03:46 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And you should have gotten hammered for wanting Michel or Chubb. Chubb is better than Fournette but they both can't play on the field at the same time. Not to mention if you use back to back first round picks on RBs, you're not doing something right.
The first rounder in 2018 should have been a layup. Hernandez, Jackson and Goedert were all really easy calls.
I loved Chubb. He looked better to me than Gurley at GA before blowing out his knee and I felt he might be one of those 'normal' guys that take an extra year feeling things out after an ACL before being back to full strength. But you're right... It wouldn't have made sense to invest such a high pick on a RB again after drafting Fournette.
Jackson on the other hand, would have been the equivalent of drafting Chubb since the FO had extended Bortles.
I remember some division over the TEs at that point in the draft, but Hernandez... He sure seemed like a sure thing by the time the draft came around.
Am I the only juvenile to chuckle at the bolded part?
(11-20-2019, 05:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:46 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]I loved Chubb. He looked better to me than Gurley at GA before blowing out his knee and I felt he might be one of those 'normal' guys that take an extra year feeling things out after an ACL before being back to full strength. But you're right... It wouldn't have made sense to invest such a high pick on a RB again after drafting Fournette.
Jackson on the other hand, would have been the equivalent of drafting Chubb since the FO had extended Bortles.
I remember some division over the TEs at that point in the draft, but Hernandez... He sure seemed like a sure thing by the time the draft came around.
Am I the only juvenile to chuckle at the bolded part?
Nope. Lol.
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Khan got rid of the Smith/Mularkey regime after a single season.
Yes, he gave Bradley a much longer leash but with the understanding that for like the first 3 years they were nowhere close to being ready to compete.
If anything, that averages out to pretty middle of the road patience as far as owners go.
(11-20-2019, 03:46 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And you should have gotten hammered for wanting Michel or Chubb. Chubb is better than Fournette but they both can't play on the field at the same time. Not to mention if you use back to back first round picks on RBs, you're not doing something right.
The first rounder in 2018 should have been a layup. Hernandez, Jackson and Goedert were all really easy calls.
I loved Chubb. He looked better to me than Gurley at GA before blowing out his knee and I felt he might be one of those 'normal' guys that take an extra year feeling things out after an ACL before being back to full strength. But you're right... It wouldn't have made sense to invest such a high pick on a RB again after drafting Fournette.
Jackson on the other hand, would have been the equivalent of drafting Chubb since the FO had extended Bortles.
I remember some division over the TEs at that point in the draft, but Hernandez... He sure seemed like a sure thing by the time the draft came around.
These are two completely different situations. We had just drafted Fournette and Blake was heading into year 5. There was no reason not to take Jackson except for the FO being stupid as usual. Even Will Hernandez and Dallas Goedert were top choices to fix holes on this team during the draft by alot of fans. This staff has just tried to outsmart everyone and ended up outsmarting themselves with some of the picks these past few years. Alot of headscratching by fans and ego from the FO.
(11-21-2019, 10:56 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2019, 03:46 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]I loved Chubb. He looked better to me than Gurley at GA before blowing out his knee and I felt he might be one of those 'normal' guys that take an extra year feeling things out after an ACL before being back to full strength. But you're right... It wouldn't have made sense to invest such a high pick on a RB again after drafting Fournette.
Jackson on the other hand, would have been the equivalent of drafting Chubb since the FO had extended Bortles.
I remember some division over the TEs at that point in the draft, but Hernandez... He sure seemed like a sure thing by the time the draft came around.
These are two completely different situations. We had just drafted Fournette and Blake was heading into year 5. There was no reason not to take Jackson except for the FO being stupid as usual. Even Will Hernandez and Dallas Goedert were top choices to fix holes on this team during the draft by alot of fans. This staff has just tried to outsmart everyone and ended up outsmarting themselves with some of the picks these past few years. Alot of headscratching by fans and ego from the FO.
Of course the situations are different, but the logic is the same. The FO had just invested a lot (draft for Fournette, money for Bortles) in both positions, and were not going to immediately reinvest. I'm not saying they were right or anything like that at all. I'm just saying Jackson was never going to happen given the investment they had just made.
(11-20-2019, 05:47 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Khan got rid of the Smith/Mularkey regime after a single season.
Yes, he gave Bradley a much longer leash but with the understanding that for like the first 3 years they were nowhere close to being ready to compete.
If anything, that averages out to pretty middle of the road patience as far as owners go.
Indeed. Smith Mularkey were the initial "I just got here" guys.
Then Caldwell and Bradley did their thing, and he brought in Tom to oversee what wasn't exactly getting enough results. Gave Tom the reigns to babysit Caldwell, and they chose Marrone.
It was only fitting that they give Tom, Doug and co time to right the ship.
Unfortunately he extended everyone through 2021 after the fools gold season of 2017. So if/when he cleans house... he'll be paying these guys to not be here.
I worry that may play a role in his decision to allow them more than 3 years.
2017 was great, 2018 was bad, and 2019 has the built in excuse of your big money FA QB getting hurt...
Bradley got 4 seasons... with no results.
Marrone could easily get 4 with 2017 season, the contract owed, plus the excuse of 2019 being marred with the injury bug at key positions. (Plus the Ramsey/Smith departures that weren't planned)
I'm not saying this is what I want...or hope for or think is warranted.
I'm ready to clean house top to bottom. But it ain't my money I'm spending either.
My thought is if we had coaches who strategized games to players' strengths (playing man instead of zone coverage in Ramsey's case) and not shoe horn players, say someone like Jack into a position he's clearly not suited for, this would be a different team. It would also help if players would take this job seriously 24-7 (looking at you and your Bye week lazy [BLEEP] Fournette) instead of quitting when things get hard.
There is plenty of blame to go around but the result on the field starts at the top and as the saying goes, "[BLEEP] rolls downhill." Set your team up for failure and guess what you get?
I'm not sure why folks are bent out of shape over Fournette resting his body over the bye. Isn't that what the bye is for?
I'm starting to wonder if Jack isn't more concerned with his candle business than with football though.