12-26-2019, 09:21 AM
12-26-2019, 09:35 AM
(12-26-2019, 09:21 AM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Small market.
Coupled with the fact that Florida teams historically struggle because so much of our population comes from somewhere else carrying other allegiances.
12-26-2019, 10:41 AM
Impatience, desperation, and insecurity.
After Shad acquired the franchise, we've had turnover from the top down. Trying to replace players with the wrong players, or in the wrong year (picking QBs in years of weak classes, thinking your QB is a long-term solution and picking other positions, etc.). Trying to win over a fickle fanbase that tends to only show when the wins are plentiful.
If you bring in the right guys (front office, coaches, or players), you have the option to ask for patience while the other gaps are dealt with. Changing from Gene to Dave was absolutely necessary, and likely the best move that allows a defence of patience over replacement. I don't know that you can say Mularkey was hired to be a long-term fixture at HC, nor could you say the same for Doug. Our desperation to acquire QBs has either depleted our draft capital (trading up to acquire guys, overvaluing the position instead of picking other positions, etc) or drastically impacted our cap room. Swinging for the fences in free agency and missing on a number of players has only hurt our ability to be more patient.
Vic has said that locals were spoiled by college fandom. The big 3 in state, whichever you root for, had runs of success with a big-name coach and a steady base of renewed talent by way of recruiting that made winning seem easy, and expected. The harsh reality of the shield is that unless you are blessed with a generational guy, expecting anything beyond competition for a playoff spot is likely delusion.
Look at the teams that tend to be successful. They have fixtures at HC, GM, or the key positions on the field. They have an identity. They have a fanbase that sells out the stadium. All those things contribute to the long-term health of a franchise. They don't swing for the fences in a desperate act to try and fix a problem. Look at the Browns - they have all this change, almost constantly at QB, HC, and even GM. Last year, they give Hugh the boot, quite understandably, but their coaching hire is a fan and player favorite, first year coach promoted up from coaching the OL. He's proven to be unprepared for the leap, and they are likely going to have to either stick through the growing pains with him, possibly wasting some good talent in the process, or firing him and starting over again with someone more qualified.
Shad seems to be a patient man, sometimes to a fault. I don't know what change will come this season, but I hope it's the last change we have to endure for a very long time.
After Shad acquired the franchise, we've had turnover from the top down. Trying to replace players with the wrong players, or in the wrong year (picking QBs in years of weak classes, thinking your QB is a long-term solution and picking other positions, etc.). Trying to win over a fickle fanbase that tends to only show when the wins are plentiful.
If you bring in the right guys (front office, coaches, or players), you have the option to ask for patience while the other gaps are dealt with. Changing from Gene to Dave was absolutely necessary, and likely the best move that allows a defence of patience over replacement. I don't know that you can say Mularkey was hired to be a long-term fixture at HC, nor could you say the same for Doug. Our desperation to acquire QBs has either depleted our draft capital (trading up to acquire guys, overvaluing the position instead of picking other positions, etc) or drastically impacted our cap room. Swinging for the fences in free agency and missing on a number of players has only hurt our ability to be more patient.
Vic has said that locals were spoiled by college fandom. The big 3 in state, whichever you root for, had runs of success with a big-name coach and a steady base of renewed talent by way of recruiting that made winning seem easy, and expected. The harsh reality of the shield is that unless you are blessed with a generational guy, expecting anything beyond competition for a playoff spot is likely delusion.
Look at the teams that tend to be successful. They have fixtures at HC, GM, or the key positions on the field. They have an identity. They have a fanbase that sells out the stadium. All those things contribute to the long-term health of a franchise. They don't swing for the fences in a desperate act to try and fix a problem. Look at the Browns - they have all this change, almost constantly at QB, HC, and even GM. Last year, they give Hugh the boot, quite understandably, but their coaching hire is a fan and player favorite, first year coach promoted up from coaching the OL. He's proven to be unprepared for the leap, and they are likely going to have to either stick through the growing pains with him, possibly wasting some good talent in the process, or firing him and starting over again with someone more qualified.
Shad seems to be a patient man, sometimes to a fault. I don't know what change will come this season, but I hope it's the last change we have to endure for a very long time.
12-26-2019, 12:58 PM
(12-25-2019, 07:42 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ](12-25-2019, 06:52 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]You can point in every direction on this franchise and find flaws or virtues but at the end of the day, if you don't have a top flight QB you're never going to win consistently in the NFL. just look at the teams who have playoff spots this season:
AFC: Ravens; Jackson. Patriots; Brady. Chiefs; Mahomes. tinhorns; Watson. Bills; Allen.
NFC: 49ers; Garopollo. Packers; Rodgers. Saints; Brees. Seahawks; Wilson. Vikings; Cousins.
Now you can make some counter arguments here (Brees has been injured, Cousins isn't on the level of other guys), but the fact remains that each of these teams got good or excellent play out of their QB's this year. And the only year we went to the playoffs this decade we got good play out of QB as well.
Yeah. But a cousins is good enough. Your point is well taken.
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If that list was from 2017 it would include Bortles. And Allen isn't all that great either. He's 22nd in passer rating. For comparison, Minshew is 16th.
12-26-2019, 01:41 PM
This question has haunted me ever since I first saw it yesterday.....what's wrong with us?
After giving much thought and coming back reading posts NOT A DAMN THING!
The spirit, attitude and interest in football found here is what you expect for a city located in the football crazy
Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida SEC country that also supports FSU and has developed big followings for USF, UCF ....I mean
people here live, eat and breath FOOTBALL.....but GOOD FOOTBALL.
We know it ...and know when somethings wrong.
I was always amazed that for a local team ....we drafted so few players from these parts , had so few coaches from here....but once they had moved here
and left the game they stayed ....because they liked it!
There's is nothing wrong with us....Ill leave it to Mr Khan to make the needed team adjustments ....our city to keep a nice place to play ....the stadium does need some shade ....and the Jaguar Fan base don't give up on this team.
They are few and far between.
After giving much thought and coming back reading posts NOT A DAMN THING!
The spirit, attitude and interest in football found here is what you expect for a city located in the football crazy
Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida SEC country that also supports FSU and has developed big followings for USF, UCF ....I mean
people here live, eat and breath FOOTBALL.....but GOOD FOOTBALL.
We know it ...and know when somethings wrong.
I was always amazed that for a local team ....we drafted so few players from these parts , had so few coaches from here....but once they had moved here
and left the game they stayed ....because they liked it!
There's is nothing wrong with us....Ill leave it to Mr Khan to make the needed team adjustments ....our city to keep a nice place to play ....the stadium does need some shade ....and the Jaguar Fan base don't give up on this team.
They are few and far between.
12-26-2019, 06:42 PM
(12-25-2019, 06:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](12-24-2019, 05:55 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]1) Missed on Gabbert
2) Missed on Bortles
3) Fowler
4) Ramsey
5) Joeckel
6) Robinson
We either missed on picks, or we wound up trading them. It's not just missing on QBs. We haven't managed our high draft picks well, either in the choice, or the retention of them.
Think of the year we drafted Luke Joeckel. He came out the same year as Eric Fisher. Those two were neck and neck in the draft. So the Chiefs pick Fisher #1, and the Jags draft Joeckel #2. Both players were disappointing at first, but the Chiefs worked with Fisher and developed him, and now he's their starting LT. We failed to develop Joeckel. Some teams are just better at developing their young players and then retaining them.
It's drafting, developing, retaining. We've failed on all three phases. Selecting a roster, coaching a roster, managing a roster.
The bottom line is, NFL football is a competition between owners. Shad Khan is a great guy, we all admire his success in life, the American dream, etc etc, but he needs to be a lot more competitive. It seems like he's tolerating losing a lot more than he should.
Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
12-26-2019, 09:10 PM
Bad player management. We are recycling positions that I would consider we hit on in regards to productions.
What’s special about that is “MVP”. The Ravens success is predicated on Lamar Jackson only.
(12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ](12-25-2019, 06:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]3) Fowler
4) Ramsey
5) Joeckel
6) Robinson
We either missed on picks, or we wound up trading them. It's not just missing on QBs. We haven't managed our high draft picks well, either in the choice, or the retention of them.
Think of the year we drafted Luke Joeckel. He came out the same year as Eric Fisher. Those two were neck and neck in the draft. So the Chiefs pick Fisher #1, and the Jags draft Joeckel #2. Both players were disappointing at first, but the Chiefs worked with Fisher and developed him, and now he's their starting LT. We failed to develop Joeckel. Some teams are just better at developing their young players and then retaining them.
It's drafting, developing, retaining. We've failed on all three phases. Selecting a roster, coaching a roster, managing a roster.
The bottom line is, NFL football is a competition between owners. Shad Khan is a great guy, we all admire his success in life, the American dream, etc etc, but he needs to be a lot more competitive. It seems like he's tolerating losing a lot more than he should.
Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
What’s special about that is “MVP”. The Ravens success is predicated on Lamar Jackson only.
12-26-2019, 09:20 PM
Bad player management.. Recycling positions we’ve already hit on.
12-26-2019, 09:33 PM
(12-26-2019, 09:10 PM)iam Wrote: [ -> ]Bad player management. We are recycling positions that I would consider we hit on in regards to productions.
(12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
What’s special about that is “MVP”. The Ravens success is predicated on Lamar Jackson only.
Uhhhhh yeah. That's the exact point I'm making.
12-26-2019, 10:14 PM
(12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]You could argue that outside of Lamar, Caldwell has drafted better.(12-25-2019, 06:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]3) Fowler
4) Ramsey
5) Joeckel
6) Robinson
We either missed on picks, or we wound up trading them. It's not just missing on QBs. We haven't managed our high draft picks well, either in the choice, or the retention of them.
Think of the year we drafted Luke Joeckel. He came out the same year as Eric Fisher. Those two were neck and neck in the draft. So the Chiefs pick Fisher #1, and the Jags draft Joeckel #2. Both players were disappointing at first, but the Chiefs worked with Fisher and developed him, and now he's their starting LT. We failed to develop Joeckel. Some teams are just better at developing their young players and then retaining them.
It's drafting, developing, retaining. We've failed on all three phases. Selecting a roster, coaching a roster, managing a roster.
The bottom line is, NFL football is a competition between owners. Shad Khan is a great guy, we all admire his success in life, the American dream, etc etc, but he needs to be a lot more competitive. It seems like he's tolerating losing a lot more than he should.
Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
12-27-2019, 08:50 AM
(12-26-2019, 10:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ](12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.You could argue that outside of Lamar, Caldwell has drafted better.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
And the whole League passed on him in the Draft, so it wasn't some glaring obvious error by just our guy.
12-27-2019, 09:01 AM
(12-27-2019, 08:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Lamar was an intriguing prospect. Just took a team with the balls to gamble on him and invest in his strengths.(12-26-2019, 10:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You could argue that outside of Lamar, Caldwell has drafted better.
And the whole League passed on him in the Draft, so it wasn't some glaring obvious error by just our guy.
Can't really fault a handful of teams opting to pass on him considering that he IS a run first QB.
I think the RGIII saga scared a lot of teams away. Vick having a few eye opening seasons before defenses started catching up speed wise was all you really had to go by.
Newton was good at it. But he's built like a damn tight end for his position and that even caught up to him.
Now you'll have Tagovailoa and Hurts to evaluate with similar skill sets just nowhere near as elusive or fast. Which means they'll HAVE to showcase arm talent leading up to the draft.
Ultimately. I liked Lamar. With that said. The argument that he would be an MVP here or anywhere else is unlikely. Baltimore had a plan. They wanted him all along. They downplayed it by not making it too obvious.
That was a good draft for them. Landing the QB they could work with while adding Hurst and Andrews at the TE position to give him a pair of safety blankets. Was high on Andrews too.
Kind of funny a lot of us on here have been clamoring for these types of QBs, TE's and RB's with multi skillsets that kind of fit today's modern approach to the NFL.
Yet we sign the pocket passer, draft the iron horse RB that's being force fed now in the passing game and still no serious investments made at TE since Julius Thomas.
Bummer.
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12-27-2019, 09:18 AM
(12-26-2019, 09:10 PM)iam Wrote: [ -> ]Bad player management. We are recycling positions that I would consider we hit on in regards to productions.
(12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
What’s special about that is “MVP”. The Ravens success is predicated on Lamar Jackson only.
I'd say their success is predicated on having an elite head coach. John Harbaugh has won a Superbowl with a bad pocket passer, and now it looks like he might win another with a good running QB. The big thing is he had the brains and guts to recognize he had to do something truly different building around players he had in a way the NFL turns its nose up at to win, and he's done it.
That's why the Ravens always win, they have elite coaching, and it's witnessing elite coaching and the effects it has on teams around the NFL that tells me the Jaguars should go ahead and clean house this off-season. They have at best mediocre coaching right now, and I can't see any reason to sit on mediocrity.
12-27-2019, 10:03 AM
(12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ](12-25-2019, 06:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]3) Fowler
4) Ramsey
5) Joeckel
6) Robinson
We either missed on picks, or we wound up trading them. It's not just missing on QBs. We haven't managed our high draft picks well, either in the choice, or the retention of them.
Think of the year we drafted Luke Joeckel. He came out the same year as Eric Fisher. Those two were neck and neck in the draft. So the Chiefs pick Fisher #1, and the Jags draft Joeckel #2. Both players were disappointing at first, but the Chiefs worked with Fisher and developed him, and now he's their starting LT. We failed to develop Joeckel. Some teams are just better at developing their young players and then retaining them.
It's drafting, developing, retaining. We've failed on all three phases. Selecting a roster, coaching a roster, managing a roster.
The bottom line is, NFL football is a competition between owners. Shad Khan is a great guy, we all admire his success in life, the American dream, etc etc, but he needs to be a lot more competitive. It seems like he's tolerating losing a lot more than he should.
Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
2013:
Brandon Williams = good starter
John Simon = depth
Kyle Juszczyk = only fullback who matters, 4 pro bowls
Ricky Wagner = starting tackle for Lions, multiple above average seasons for ravens
Ryan Jensen = 56 starts at center, currently above average C for the Bucs
Great draft, especially in a weak class where most flamed out (like Caldwell)
2014:
Mosley: quality starter for the Ravens, not worth his contact for jets but was a good pick
Jernigan: good rotational DT
udfa: Zach Orr, all pro Lb forced to retire due to injury
2015: First 3 rounds bust.
Zadarius Smith: good pass rusher, developed by Baltimore
Darren Waller: not giving them credit for him now
2016:
Ronnie Stanley: franchise LT
Matt Judon: #1 pass rusher on the team right now
Tavon Young: good starting nickel
udfa: Michael Pierce top 5 NT and starter,
Matt Skura , starting center this year,
Patrick Onwuasor, startling Lb this year
2017:
Marlon Humpherey: above average corner
Chuck Clark: backup safety, played v well this year with Tony J injury
udfa: Andrew Wylie, starting guard for the Chiefs
2018:
Hayden Hurst: backup TE( awful pick)
Lamar Jackson: MVP at 22
Orlando Brown: above average tackle
Mark Andrews : top 10 TE
udfa:
Gus Edwards: Very good backup RB, 1300 yards in 240 carries for the Ravens the past two years.
12-27-2019, 05:16 PM
(12-27-2019, 10:03 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ](12-26-2019, 06:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Missing on QBs isn't the only thing wrong. But far and away it is the biggest reason the team can't consistently win.
You could develope a list similar to yours for a lot of NFL teams but if they have a great QB, they overcome it.
Take a look at the Ravens from the Joeckel draft forward:
2013: Matt Elam - out of NFL
2013: Arthur Brown - out of NFL
2013: Brandon Williams - Good Starter
2014: CJ Mosley - other team starter
2014: Timmy Jernigan - other team backup
2014: Terrence Brooks - other team backup
2015: Breshard Perriman - other team backup
2015: Maxx Williams - other team backup
2015: Carl Davis - on Jaguars
2016: Ronnie Stanley - Great player
2016: Kamalei Correa - other team backup
2016: Bronson Kafusi - other team backup
2017: Marlon Humphrey - starter
2017: Tyus Bowser - backup
2017: Chris Wormley - backup
2018: Hayden Hurst - backup
2018: Lamar Jackson - probable MVP
2018: Orlando Brown - starter
There's nothing appreciably special about their draft or development other than one single pick.
2013:
Brandon Williams = good starter
John Simon = depth
Kyle Juszczyk = only fullback who matters, 4 pro bowls
Ricky Wagner = starting tackle for Lions, multiple above average seasons for ravens
Ryan Jensen = 56 starts at center, currently above average C for the Bucs
Great draft, especially in a weak class where most flamed out (like Caldwell)
2014:
Mosley: quality starter for the Ravens, not worth his contact for jets but was a good pick
Jernigan: good rotational DT
udfa: Zach Orr, all pro Lb forced to retire due to injury
2015: First 3 rounds bust.
Zadarius Smith: good pass rusher, developed by Baltimore
Darren Waller: not giving them credit for him now
2016:
Ronnie Stanley: franchise LT
Matt Judon: #1 pass rusher on the team right now
Tavon Young: good starting nickel
udfa: Michael Pierce top 5 NT and starter,
Matt Skura , starting center this year,
Patrick Onwuasor, startling Lb this year
2017:
Marlon Humpherey: above average corner
Chuck Clark: backup safety, played v well this year with Tony J injury
udfa: Andrew Wylie, starting guard for the Chiefs
2018:
Hayden Hurst: backup TE( awful pick)
Lamar Jackson: MVP at 22
Orlando Brown: above average tackle
Mark Andrews : top 10 TE
udfa:
Gus Edwards: Very good backup RB, 1300 yards in 240 carries for the Ravens the past two years.
The post I responded to clearly outlined players not retained by the team as a negative.
Regardless, if you'd like to go pick by pick, I'd agree they're better - they're one of the best run organizations in the league. My point being, even looking at one of the best teams in the league, the difference isn't some vast insurmountable canyon of talent other than having Mr. Jackson.
They were a 4-5 team last year when they inserted him into the lineup. They're 19-3 since.
12-27-2019, 05:28 PM
Just for argument's sake I went and looked at the Patriots 2014 draft picks:
1st round: DT Easley; cut after two seasons. Bust.
2nd round: QB Garopollo; traded to 49ers in 2017 for a 2nd round pick. Success.
4th round: C Stork; retired after two seasons due to concussions. Bust.
4th round: RB White; still on the roster but used in limited role. Success, mainly due to low draft position.
4th round: T Fleming; four years on the team, not resigned after 2017. Push.
6th round: G Halapio; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
6th round: DE Moore; Made the roster for one season, only played eight games. Bust.
6th round: CB Thomas; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
7th round: WR Gallon; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
Nine picks, three players with any lasting impact, and only two I'd consider good picks. Now, what is it about the Patriots that makes them different? Whatever could it be?
And as Vic Ketchman is fond of pointing out; Belichick was 5-13 and on the way to getting fired when Brady started his first game.
1st round: DT Easley; cut after two seasons. Bust.
2nd round: QB Garopollo; traded to 49ers in 2017 for a 2nd round pick. Success.
4th round: C Stork; retired after two seasons due to concussions. Bust.
4th round: RB White; still on the roster but used in limited role. Success, mainly due to low draft position.
4th round: T Fleming; four years on the team, not resigned after 2017. Push.
6th round: G Halapio; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
6th round: DE Moore; Made the roster for one season, only played eight games. Bust.
6th round: CB Thomas; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
7th round: WR Gallon; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
Nine picks, three players with any lasting impact, and only two I'd consider good picks. Now, what is it about the Patriots that makes them different? Whatever could it be?
And as Vic Ketchman is fond of pointing out; Belichick was 5-13 and on the way to getting fired when Brady started his first game.
12-27-2019, 05:47 PM
(12-27-2019, 05:16 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ](12-27-2019, 10:03 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]2013:
Brandon Williams = good starter
John Simon = depth
Kyle Juszczyk = only fullback who matters, 4 pro bowls
Ricky Wagner = starting tackle for Lions, multiple above average seasons for ravens
Ryan Jensen = 56 starts at center, currently above average C for the Bucs
Great draft, especially in a weak class where most flamed out (like Caldwell)
2014:
Mosley: quality starter for the Ravens, not worth his contact for jets but was a good pick
Jernigan: good rotational DT
udfa: Zach Orr, all pro Lb forced to retire due to injury
2015: First 3 rounds bust.
Zadarius Smith: good pass rusher, developed by Baltimore
Darren Waller: not giving them credit for him now
2016:
Ronnie Stanley: franchise LT
Matt Judon: #1 pass rusher on the team right now
Tavon Young: good starting nickel
udfa: Michael Pierce top 5 NT and starter,
Matt Skura , starting center this year,
Patrick Onwuasor, startling Lb this year
2017:
Marlon Humpherey: above average corner
Chuck Clark: backup safety, played v well this year with Tony J injury
udfa: Andrew Wylie, starting guard for the Chiefs
2018:
Hayden Hurst: backup TE( awful pick)
Lamar Jackson: MVP at 22
Orlando Brown: above average tackle
Mark Andrews : top 10 TE
udfa:
Gus Edwards: Very good backup RB, 1300 yards in 240 carries for the Ravens the past two years.
The post I responded to clearly outlined players not retained by the team as a negative.
Regardless, if you'd like to go pick by pick, I'd agree they're better - they're one of the best run organizations in the league. My point being, even looking at one of the best teams in the league, the difference isn't some vast insurmountable canyon of talent other than having Mr. Jackson.
They were a 4-5 team last year when they inserted him into the lineup. They're 19-3 since.
More so responding to their player aquisition not being special. That level of drafting and udfa recruiting is. They've brought in 5 above average offensive linemen purely through the draft or udfa. The Jags have 1 combined since 2013 using the draft , udfa and free agency.
And yes Lamar is of course the crown jewel of how high a level that FO is operating on right now
12-27-2019, 05:47 PM
What's wrong with us? Lemme tell you what's RIGHT with us....it's a much shorter list.....
We have a good fanbase (as beleaguered as they are), we have a pool in our stadium, and we have an extremely patient owner.
We have a good fanbase (as beleaguered as they are), we have a pool in our stadium, and we have an extremely patient owner.
12-27-2019, 05:50 PM
(12-27-2019, 05:28 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]Just for argument's sake I went and looked at the Patriots 2014 draft picks:
1st round: DT Easley; cut after two seasons. Bust.
2nd round: QB Garopollo; traded to 49ers in 2017 for a 2nd round pick. Success.
4th round: C Stork; retired after two seasons due to concussions. Bust.
4th round: RB White; still on the roster but used in limited role. Success, mainly due to low draft position.
4th round: T Fleming; four years on the team, not resigned after 2017. Push.
6th round: G Halapio; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
6th round: DE Moore; Made the roster for one season, only played eight games. Bust.
6th round: CB Thomas; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
7th round: WR Gallon; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
Nine picks, three players with any lasting impact, and only two I'd consider good picks. Now, what is it about the Patriots that makes them different? Whatever could it be?
And as Vic Ketchman is fond of pointing out; Belichick was 5-13 and on the way to getting fired when Brady started his first game.
You just need the greatest coach and QB of all time and you too can miss badly on some drafts
12-27-2019, 06:18 PM
(12-27-2019, 05:50 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ](12-27-2019, 05:28 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]Just for argument's sake I went and looked at the Patriots 2014 draft picks:
1st round: DT Easley; cut after two seasons. Bust.
2nd round: QB Garopollo; traded to 49ers in 2017 for a 2nd round pick. Success.
4th round: C Stork; retired after two seasons due to concussions. Bust.
4th round: RB White; still on the roster but used in limited role. Success, mainly due to low draft position.
4th round: T Fleming; four years on the team, not resigned after 2017. Push.
6th round: G Halapio; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
6th round: DE Moore; Made the roster for one season, only played eight games. Bust.
6th round: CB Thomas; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
7th round: WR Gallon; Didn't make the roster. Bust.
Nine picks, three players with any lasting impact, and only two I'd consider good picks. Now, what is it about the Patriots that makes them different? Whatever could it be?
And as Vic Ketchman is fond of pointing out; Belichick was 5-13 and on the way to getting fired when Brady started his first game.
You just need the greatest coach and QB of all time and you too can miss badly on some drafts
He wasn't the greatest coach of all time until he had Brady.
It's all about having a franchise quarterback. The closest we've had was Brunell.