Last season we had the second most penalty yards in the NFL and this year we have the most penalty yards, by a large margin. That is on the coaches and that is completely unacceptable. If these coaches are brought back, that is showing the fans that there is absolutely no accountability on this team.
Marrone didn’t get us to the AFCCG, the defense did. Using that as a pro to keep him is BOLOGNA. He is a god awful coach and is the direct reason that we LOST that AFCCG and didn’t go to the SB. He laid this team down against the Pats. That call against Jack sucks, but isn’t the reason we lost. Look no further than Marrone on that.We overachieved like crazy that year and got hot late. Marrone has no finger on the defense, which propelled the team. He is an O line coach and our o line is GARBAGE.
Get rid of this Bologna.
Keeping Marrone (and likely Wash) would be such a bad move that I don’t even know where to begin.
Another lame duck year.... yay.
RedZone and Fantasy Football > The Jags
(12-24-2019, 03:23 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 02:19 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]Here is why:
•DALLAS DALLAS DALLAS
•RAMS RAMS RAMS
•BROWNS BROWNS BROWNS
PENALTIES PENALTIES PENALTIES
The Jags lead the league in penalties. Why? Where is the discipline?
This is the overwhelming complaint about keeping Marrone. Which I also obviously considered when I posted this.
To me, penalties like unsportsmanlike are truly on the Head Coach as it reflects a lack of discipline.
Any other penalty is a result in lack of awareness and the NFL being the NFL. The Refs are generally atrocious in this league. The majority of our holding penalties have been VERY questionable.
We were 5th in Penalties when we went to the AFC Championship, who were the other teams? Seattle, Kansas City, Philly, Dolphins - should we fire Andy Reid? Carroll? Pederson?
Guys, Penalties is the weakest argument. Sure it absolutely needs to get better, but its not going to get better without better players.
Better Players = More Awareness = Less Penalties (Ideally of course)
I will always hold the position that its the players that make the team and how good the coach is depends on how he utilizes each players skill set. The BAD coaches try to implement a forced scheme on players that aren't meant for it.
But you cant say when we have a team of studs and 1st round picks, the coaching will work.
2017 was a one off. Literally. We haven't had a winning season before or after. We were 3-1 and collapsed and wobbled to 4-4 thanks to Minshew and collapsed to 5-10. October/November is when the coaching and work you've been putting in since July kicks in. It hasn't for us. Weve gone backwards. We have one or two injuries and the whole D or O collapses.
You mention Carroll. Hes lost everyone but Wagner from that SB D. They are still a playoff team in a super tough division. Tomlin was 1-4, lost Roethlisberger, Brown and Juju, and has them at 8-7. Good coaches find a way to win with a bad team.
Shanahan has turned the Niners round in 3 years, same with Zimmer in Minnesota. Gruden has Oakland 8-7.
Marrone just hasn't shown that ability.
My 71 year old mom who is a casual Jaguar and football fan in general called me during the game and said "the coach looks like he just doesn't care".
Good enough for me, mom.
(12-24-2019, 11:08 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]My 71 year old mom who is a casual Jaguar and football fan in general called me during the game and said "the coach looks like he just doesn't care".
Good enough for me, mom.
Mom knows what's up. Marrone needs to go.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
(12-24-2019, 04:05 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Is it Christmas or April Fools?
I think we can all agree Mojoking has to be Marrone right?
Or could it be Mojo as in Marice Jones Drew?
NH3...
(12-24-2019, 11:06 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]But you cant say when we have a team of studs and 1st round picks, the coaching will work.
2017 was a one off. Literally. We haven't had a winning season before or after. We were 3-1 and collapsed and wobbled to 4-4 thanks to Minshew and collapsed to 5-10. October/November is when the coaching and work you've been putting in since July kicks in. It hasn't for us. Weve gone backwards. We have one or two injuries and the whole D or O collapses.
You mention Carroll. Hes lost everyone but Wagner from that SB D. They are still a playoff team in a super tough division. Tomlin was 1-4, lost Roethlisberger, Brown and Juju, and has them at 8-7. Good coaches find a way to win with a bad team.
Shanahan has turned the Niners round in 3 years, same with Zimmer in Minnesota. Gruden has Oakland 8-7.
Marrone just hasn't shown that ability.
What do you mean? It did work when we had Fowler and Ramsey. As soon as injuries hit us in 2018 our team fell apart, because there was NO depth. The Seah
awks and Steelers constantly have great depth. Caroll has had AMAZING rosters during his SB runs. And Russell Wilson is a league defining player so of course they are going to be in the conversation. Before Carroll was milking 7-9 seasons out of his team BUT in a very weak division back then.
Tomlin is a top 3 coach in this league, I dont know how he does it, hes amazing. If there is a Mike Tomlin out there then yes, fire Marrone and lets hire him.
But, chances are there ISNT. And oh by the way, we BEAT Tomlin TWICE our 2017 season.
The 49ers were awful, now they have a super competitive roster of course hes doing great.
The only coach in this league who has the secret sauce in Belicheck, everyone else is really imo at the same level.
It's the 70% Players 20% Coaching 10% Luck
(12-24-2019, 02:19 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]Ok ok ok, HEAR me out.
Like many of you, the day we fired Coughlin I was happy. I WANTED Marrone and Caldwell to be fired next. Even this last Sunday, I was PRO fire Marrone. I was curious when several media outlets said Khan would be wise to keep both, and then I thought some more.
upon further reflection... I think we need to keep him. Here is why:
•DALLAS DALLAS DALLAS
They have sooooo much talent, and yet they can barely win a game this year. Garrett was terrible with talent on O and D allotted to him.
•RAMS RAMS RAMS
Again, a talent fiiilllllled roster. Traded their retirement away for an all in plea and LOST. McVay has been good, but not great with a consistently good roster during his tenure.
•BROWNS BROWNS BROWNS
Super talented roster, and hired a new HC and just well... very bad... should be ahead of the Steelers.
JAGUARS JAGUARS JAGUARS
Marrone actually got us some where when we had talent. Guys... our roster these last 10 years has been LACKING depth AND talent
The ONE year we had an OK roster only On Defense, we get to an AFC Championship, and a bad call away from a SB. LAST year before injuries demolished our offense, we were 3-1. Doug got us there with Above average talent.
Our team has no business being 5-11 with this talent deficient roster and the host of external distractions
Do you remember the preseason??? After our 1s were done, our team was AWFUL.
Many of you mention that Marrone has a problem developing his players. BUT THATS NOT HIS JOB. He’s the head coach, his staff is supposed to develop players. The fact that Marrone managed to get us to even 5-11(well Minshew), is remarkable! Not to mention with the copious amounts of BS behind the scenes stuff he’s dealt with ALL season.
I would be ok with getting rid of Wash in favor of a more innovative Coordinator. And who ever the hell our O line coach is.
I’m 50/50 on Caldwell, he’s done OK but nothing spectacular.
In summation though. Please think hard before wanting to get a new HC. More often than not, they do not pan out. Our current players are in favor of him. We should give Marrone another opportunity.
What I got from this post:
1) Marrone is not responsible for anything, including getting us to 5-11, but somehow he's still good so we need to keep him.
2) Caldwell is not responsible for anything, so if the team is devoid of talent it means that he's doing ok.
3) Mojoking is Mo-joking with us, amirite?
Even if you believe that Caldwell was being completely domineered by Coughlin and want to give him a pass for that, you still have to justify how Caldwell was so bad for 4 years that Shad thought he needed to bring in Coughlin in the first place.
(12-24-2019, 11:51 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Even if you believe that Caldwell was being completely domineered by Coughlin and want to give him a pass for that, you still have to justify how Caldwell was so bad for 4 years that Shad thought he needed to bring in Coughlin in the first place.
Caldwell was making bad picks long before Tom came back.
(12-24-2019, 11:43 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ]What I got from this post:
1) Marrone is not responsible for anything, including getting us to 5-11, but somehow he's still good so we need to keep him.
2) Caldwell is not responsible for anything, so if the team is devoid of talent it means that he's doing ok.
3) Mojoking is Mo-joking with us, amirite?
I encourage you to re-read the post
The whole post describes my thesis, I'll simplify it in a few sentences:
Marrone did incredibly well when given talent compared to other NFL Coaches who have not. Dallas,Browns,Rams have a better overall roster than we did in 2017.
Marrone needs to hire a better supporting staff to develop players
Our talent and depth has been the single crux as to why we've been horrible for 10 years, thus Caldwell should probably go, but that wont happen.
Going after a HC is like russian roulette, and we've died almost every time... at least with Marrone we know when he has a competitive roster he can lead us to the playoffs
Thats my argument.
(12-25-2019, 01:08 AM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 11:43 PM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ]What I got from this post:
1) Marrone is not responsible for anything, including getting us to 5-11, but somehow he's still good so we need to keep him.
2) Caldwell is not responsible for anything, so if the team is devoid of talent it means that he's doing ok.
3) Mojoking is Mo-joking with us, amirite?
I encourage you to re-read the post
The whole post describes my thesis, I'll simplify it in a few sentences:
Marrone did incredibly well when given talent compared to other NFL Coaches who have not. Dallas,Browns,Rams have a better overall roster than we did in 2017.
Marrone needs to hire a better supporting staff to develop players
Our talent and depth has been the single crux as to why we've been horrible for 10 years, thus Caldwell should probably go, but that wont happen.
Going after a HC is like russian roulette, and we've died almost every time... at least with Marrone we know when he has a competitive roster he can lead us to the playoffs
Thats my argument.
Ok- I'll bite.
You say that Marrone needs to hire a better supporting staff. Who hired his current staff? Marrone of course.
Marrone IS responsible for the coaching staff. HE is responsible for the offense and the defense. That's what being in charge means. With great authority comes great responsibility.
Talent and depth is a problem this year, but look at the Dolphins. Easily the least-talented team in the NFL, yet they are pulling out wins here at the end of the year. Look at Doug Marrone's specialty - O-line. Can't run block. Can't pass block. Yet the Jags have invested a ton in both draft picks and free agency, with nothing to show for it.
If you say Marrone got us to the playoffs one year, then that would have been a good enough reason to keep Del Rio around.
Bottom line is that Doug Marrone is not a top-level coach. If the Jags want to continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL, like they have for the past 20 years, then sure - keep Marrone around. Keep Dave Caldwell around. They're under contract and it will save Khan a few $$$ million.
But if Khan is serious about building a winning franchise, then change is needed at all levels. No more half-measures. Bring in a GM who can hire HIS coach, let the new GM and new HC evaluate the roster objectively and see if either Foles or Minshew are a franchise QB.
The foundation of the Jags is rotten. Time to build the foundation all over again.
(12-25-2019, 01:20 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2019, 01:08 AM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I encourage you to re-read the post
The whole post describes my thesis, I'll simplify it in a few sentences:
Marrone did incredibly well when given talent compared to other NFL Coaches who have not. Dallas,Browns,Rams have a better overall roster than we did in 2017.
Marrone needs to hire a better supporting staff to develop players
Our talent and depth has been the single crux as to why we've been horrible for 10 years, thus Caldwell should probably go, but that wont happen.
Going after a HC is like russian roulette, and we've died almost every time... at least with Marrone we know when he has a competitive roster he can lead us to the playoffs
Thats my argument.
Ok- I'll bite.
You say that Marrone needs to hire a better supporting staff. Who hired his current staff? Marrone of course.
Marrone IS responsible for the coaching staff. HE is responsible for the offense and the defense. That's what being in charge means. With great authority comes great responsibility.
Talent and depth is a problem this year, but look at the Dolphins. Easily the least-talented team in the NFL, yet they are pulling out wins here at the end of the year. Look at Doug Marrone's specialty - O-line. Can't run block. Can't pass block. Yet the Jags have invested a ton in both draft picks and free agency, with nothing to show for it.
If you say Marrone got us to the playoffs one year, then that would have been a good enough reason to keep Del Rio around.
Bottom line is that Doug Marrone is not a top-level coach. If the Jags want to continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL, like they have for the past 20 years, then sure - keep Marrone around. Keep Dave Caldwell around. They're under contract and it will save Khan a few $$$ million.
But if Khan is serious about building a winning franchise, then change is needed at all levels. No more half-measures. Bring in a GM who can hire HIS coach, let the new GM and new HC evaluate the roster objectively and see if either Foles or Minshew are a franchise QB.
The foundation of the Jags is rotten. Time to build the foundation all over again.
Man man, yes of course Marrone is responsible for hiring them. He should be blamed for hiring who he hired, however we weren’t complaining about the staff when we went 10-6 (albeit most of us wanted Wash to stop running too much zone)
Your statement is a little ridiculous. Marrone didn’t just take us to the playoffs. He almost got us to a SUPERBOWL with Blake freakin Bortles.
Del Rio had 8-9 years here with one good playoff run. Del Río benefitted from a consistently good roster on D that could stop the run, AND an offense that could run the ball
We need to fire Doug Marrone so we can hire another "Doug Marrone" or another "Gus"
Just the way it is around here
(12-25-2019, 01:37 AM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2019, 01:20 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Ok- I'll bite.
You say that Marrone needs to hire a better supporting staff. Who hired his current staff? Marrone of course.
Marrone IS responsible for the coaching staff. HE is responsible for the offense and the defense. That's what being in charge means. With great authority comes great responsibility.
Talent and depth is a problem this year, but look at the Dolphins. Easily the least-talented team in the NFL, yet they are pulling out wins here at the end of the year. Look at Doug Marrone's specialty - O-line. Can't run block. Can't pass block. Yet the Jags have invested a ton in both draft picks and free agency, with nothing to show for it.
If you say Marrone got us to the playoffs one year, then that would have been a good enough reason to keep Del Rio around.
Bottom line is that Doug Marrone is not a top-level coach. If the Jags want to continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL, like they have for the past 20 years, then sure - keep Marrone around. Keep Dave Caldwell around. They're under contract and it will save Khan a few $$$ million.
But if Khan is serious about building a winning franchise, then change is needed at all levels. No more half-measures. Bring in a GM who can hire HIS coach, let the new GM and new HC evaluate the roster objectively and see if either Foles or Minshew are a franchise QB.
The foundation of the Jags is rotten. Time to build the foundation all over again.
Man man, yes of course Marrone is responsible for hiring them. He should be blamed for hiring who he hired, however we weren’t complaining about the staff when we went 10-6 (albeit most of us wanted Wash to stop running too much zone)
Your statement is a little ridiculous. Marrone didn’t just take us to the playoffs. He almost got us to a SUPERBOWL with Blake freakin Bortles.
Del Rio had 8-9 years here with one good playoff run. Del Río benefitted from a consistently good roster on D that could stop the run, AND an offense that could run the ball
Using the "almost got us to the Super Bowl" argument doesn't work. Look at the Rams that DID make it to the SB last year. No one is clamoring for their HC to come here. He had one good year - then other teams figured his schemes out and how to beat them.
The best head coaches are good consistently. Harbaugh. Belichek. Tomlin. They change schemes to match players, not the other way around.
Jags fans are growing accustomed to being horrible and occasionally rising to mediocrity. I don't get the idea of settling. Why not try and get a top-level coach? Marrone has been here long enough to know what you're going to get, and it's not good.
We literally have the worst run defense in Jags history. Lead the league in penalties. New records for most consecutive double-digit leads. This is the coach that you want to keep around for another year?
(12-25-2019, 02:02 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Using the "almost got us to the Super Bowl" argument doesn't work. Look at the Rams that DID make it to the SB last year. No one is clamoring for their HC to come here. He had one good year - then other teams figured his schemes out and how to beat them.
The best head coaches are good consistently. Harbaugh. Belichek. Tomlin. They change schemes to match players, not the other way around.
Jags fans are growing accustomed to being horrible and occasionally rising to mediocrity. I don't get the idea of settling. Why not try and get a top-level coach? Marrone has been here long enough to know what you're going to get, and it's not good.
We literally have the worst run defense in Jags history. Lead the league in penalties. New records for most consecutive double-digit leads. This is the coach that you want to keep around for another year?
McVay made it with a much more talented Offense and Aaron Donald and not having to play the Patriots or Chiefs in the playoffs
"They change schemes to match players, not the other way around" EXACTLY my point. Marrone did this in 2017, he can't do it now because it wouldn't matter WHAT scheme we run because we barely can run a Tampa 2 with the talent we have here.
We act as if Tomlins and Harbaughs are just out there to pick off a tree, again we BEAT both of them in the 2017 season.
"We literally have the worst run defense in Jags history. Lead the league in penalties. New records for most consecutive double-digit leads. This is the coach that you want to keep around for another year?"
Yes. Because to me, its all a product of talent and depth, NOT coaching. We were considered the best D in 2017. What? Did Marrone forget what he was doing? Does he have alzheimers? Did Wash have a stroke? or did virtually half of our D from that year leave the team?
There are no Tomlins or Harbaughs in this years potential crop.
(12-24-2019, 03:19 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]If Marrone is retained I’ll be disappointed, but I also won’t scream at the sky. For the love of all that is football holy, get him some real coordinators if he does stay.
It'll be pretty difficult for a lame duck HC to get good coordinators. He'd probably have to hire position coaches to be the coordinators.
(12-25-2019, 02:38 AM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2019, 02:02 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Using the "almost got us to the Super Bowl" argument doesn't work. Look at the Rams that DID make it to the SB last year. No one is clamoring for their HC to come here. He had one good year - then other teams figured his schemes out and how to beat them.
The best head coaches are good consistently. Harbaugh. Belichek. Tomlin. They change schemes to match players, not the other way around.
Jags fans are growing accustomed to being horrible and occasionally rising to mediocrity. I don't get the idea of settling. Why not try and get a top-level coach? Marrone has been here long enough to know what you're going to get, and it's not good.
We literally have the worst run defense in Jags history. Lead the league in penalties. New records for most consecutive double-digit leads. This is the coach that you want to keep around for another year?
McVay made it with a much more talented Offense and Aaron Donald and not having to play the Patriots or Chiefs in the playoffs
"They change schemes to match players, not the other way around" EXACTLY my point. Marrone did this in 2017, he can't do it now because it wouldn't matter WHAT scheme we run because we barely can run a Tampa 2 with the talent we have here.
We act as if Tomlins and Harbaughs are just out there to pick off a tree, again we BEAT both of them in the 2017 season.
"We literally have the worst run defense in Jags history. Lead the league in penalties. New records for most consecutive double-digit leads. This is the coach that you want to keep around for another year?"
Yes. Because to me, its all a product of talent and depth, NOT coaching. We were considered the best D in 2017. What? Did Marrone forget what he was doing? Does he have alzheimers? Did Wash have a stroke? or did virtually half of our D from that year leave the team?
There are no Tomlins or Harbaughs in this years potential crop.
Talent isn't an excuse for awful game plans, preparation, penalties and the team going on a historic losing streak.
Keeping a bad HC becuase you are too afraid to hire someone new is why bad franchises stay bad