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Are there any franchises that have turned things around with the same coach? Can you lose this much and learn how to win?

Panthers

Chuck Noll - like 100 years ago with the steelers

 

Personally, I thought the Seahawks were ririduclous for hiring Pete Carroll, but that turned out well. I know it's not the same as being with the same team, but he wasn't very successful with the Pats.

 

Second time around head coaches seem to work out better (Sans Mularkey)

49ers and Mariucci comes to mind.

 

****Disregard, that was hardly a bad few seasons compared to the Jags.

Quote:Panthers

 

I respectfully disagree. The Panthers weren't really horrible during John Fox's tenure until his final season. Riviera started poorly which tells me there was a talent gap during Fox' last year and Riveria's first year, but since then it has been pretty consistent if not great.

 

John Fox never won less than 7 games during his tenure until his final season.

 

My point being, once you downward spiral, the odds are stacked against you actually recovering in this league.

Very surprised Marvin Lewis has still been around.


Also for coaching successes. It's quite phenomenal what Jim Harbaugh did in SF during his brief stint there. It's not talked about enough. It's not like they had an amazingly talented team, they just executed at such a high level.

Quote:I respectfully disagree. The Panthers weren't really horrible during John Fox's tenure until his final season. Riviera started poorly which tells me there was a talent gap during Fox' last year and Riveria's first year, but since then it has been pretty consistent if not great.

 

John Fox never won less than 7 games during his tenure until his final season.

 

My point being, once you downward spiral, the odds are stacked against you actually recovering in this league.

Def. not as bad as the Jags have been, but they were bad Riveras first two seasons. He even had the OROTY(Cam)his first year and the DROTY (Kuechly) the following.

Quote:Def. not as bad as the Jags have been, but they were bad Riveras first two seasons. He even had the OROTY(Cam)his first year and the DROTY (Kuechly) the following.

 

6-10 and 7-9 aren't great, but they are better than anything Gus has sniffed in his 1st 4 years.

Quote:Very surprised Marvin Lewis has still been around.


Also for coaching successes. It's quite phenomenal what Jim Harbaugh did in SF during his brief stint there. It's not talked about enough. It's not like they had an amazingly talented team, they just executed at such a high level.

Yeah I am a little surprised that Cincy has kept him around. I mean I get that he has made the playoffs 5 years in a row, but you would think an organization would want something new. He is 0-7 in wild card games. Then again, Cincy looks around the league and sees teams like the Jags have Gus Bradley and are like yeah I think we are ok with Marvin. 

Tom Laundry is really the only one I can think of.

he's learning how to be a head coach at our expense. Dave Caldwell is learning how to be a GM at our expense. Khan is learning how to be an owner at our expense.... see the problem?

I was trying to not make this specifically about Gus, but that is nearly impossible and I already used Gus' name in a post, but I think it poses a great question. Once a team has developed a losing culture under a coach, it is nearly impossible or highly improbable that they will escape it.

Quote:Yeah I am a little surprised that Cincy has kept him around. I mean I get that he has made the playoffs 5 years in a row, but you would think an organization would want something new. He is 0-7 in wild card games. Then again, Cincy looks around the league and sees teams like the Jags have Gus Bradley and are like yeah I think we are ok with Marvin. 

They have lost a couple playoff games without AJ Green, Geno Atkins and Dalton. They beat themselves in that playoff game with an unreal bad fumble and then bonehead penalties.

 

I wish Cincy would fire Lewis so we could hire him.

Quote:I was trying to not make this specifically about Gus, but that is nearly impossible and I already used Gus' name in a post, but I think it poses a great question. Once a team has developed a losing culture under a coach, it is nearly impossible or highly improbable that they will escape it.

 

probably true. JDR didn't adjust his defensive scheme until he went to Denver.  Then suddenly his defense was more complex and had many different looks.

 

sometimes you have to get fired to realize that you need to change.  i dont see any variety with our defense. it's the same thing every week.

Quote:They have lost a couple playoff games without AJ Green, Geno Atkins and Dalton. They beat themselves in that playoff game with an unreal bad fumble and then bonehead penalties.

 

I wish Cincy would fire Lewis so we could hire him.

Oh believe me, I would LOVE to have Lewis. Heck, I rather have Big Lou the cotton candy guy. 

Quote:Yeah I am a little surprised that Cincy has kept him around. I mean I get that he has made the playoffs 5 years in a row, but you would think an organization would want something new. He is 0-7 in wild card games. Then again, Cincy looks around the league and sees teams like the Jags have Gus Bradley and are like yeah I think we are ok with Marvin. 

 

  An additional reason that Mike Brown has retained Marvin Lewis is the former remembers well how much the Bengals struggled over a long period of time  ( over a decade  ) before Lewis became their HC.   These days,  rarely do most NFL fans call the Bengals the ' Bungals' .   That wasn't the case in the 1990s and early 2000's.

Quote:Panthers

 

A bit different...

 

I don't think the Panthers were that bad when Ron Rivera took over. The main thing they lacked in John Fox's last two seasons was consistent quarterback play. After their play off defeat in 2008, Jake Delhomme regressed significantly and ended up on IR during 2009, but John Fox managed to coach them to .500 with Matt Moore as his QB. Following season they moved on from Delhomme and drafted Jimmy Clausen. He sucked. No wonder they ended up finishing 2-14 with a combination of Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, and Brian St Pierre under center. That being said, I put them in a similar bracket to the year the Colts finished with the first overall pick - a decent roster that simply lacked a quarterback. Put Matt Hasselbeck in the Panthers or Colts team and they wouldn't have finished near the first overall pick. 

 

So in a sense, when they hired Ron Rivera and landed Cam Newton as their quarterback, there was a good chance they would turnaround quickly if Cam Newton managed to make the jump from college football to the NFL. He has. In those first two seasons under Rivera and Newton, the Panthers finished 6-10 and 7-9 respectively. One thing to note is they blew 5 leads in 2011 and 3 leads in 2012. If they had held on to those leads they would have finished with winning records. They were competitive and really close, not a title contender, but certainly a team capable of going .500 or better. Since then they have put it together and become one of the best teams in the league. That is a remarkable turnaround in a sense that they have gone from first overall pick to Super Bowl runner ups within five seasons. But it also shows the talent base they had to build on because that roster was not gutted like ours, it had pro bowlers on it, it had talented players on it. All they have done is added more talent to it and boy have they kicked on...

 

Could we do the same?

 

Sure. We definitely have a talented roster with some potentially special players. The problem we have is that we keep choking, making stupid mistakes, and generally looking like a band of misfits. It shouldn't be that way and that comes down to Gus Bradley and his coaching staff. We currently sit at 0-3. We should be better than that. There is time for Bradley to turn it around if Khan stays true to his word that Bradley gets another year. But anything short of .500 this season - if Bradley lasts that long - should be seen as a failure. At the beginning I did say that what we need to do first is get to 8 wins, and anything we get beyond that is progress. That was my minimum expectation for this season - .500 - and it is still possible. That being said, I have doubts that Bradley is the man that will turn this team around. He is not as good a coach as Ron Rivera. 

Quote:Def. not as bad as the Jags have been, but they were bad Riveras first two seasons. He even had the OROTY(Cam)his first year and the DROTY (Kuechly) the following.

 

Agreed, not as bad as the we have been. But in those two seasons the Panthers' main problem was blowing leads. They lost 5 in Rivera's first season and 3 in his second season. If they had held onto those leads, they would have finished 11-5 and 10-6. They were not that bad. They were pretty close to being a .500 or better team. Their main fault was failing to hold onto leads and close games out. 

Would you take a coach that took over a 7-9 team and lost the divisional round of the playoffs his first year, then lost in the wild card round the following year.. then lost in the conference championship game, then made it to, but lost the super bowl, then lost in the divisional round again, then lost the conference championship, then didn't make the playoffs for 3 straight years, then loses the conference championship again, then loses in the divisional round yet again, followed up by not making the playoffs the next year, then losing in the conference championship again, then finally winning a Super Bowl, and missing the playoffs the next year...... if so... you'd love Bill Cowher... a proven loser.

Quote:Would you take a coach that took over a 7-9 team and lost the divisional round of the playoffs his first year, then lost in the wild card round the following year.. then lost in the conference championship game, then made it to, but lost the super bowl, then lost in the divisional round again, then lost the conference championship, then didn't make the playoffs for 3 straight years, then loses the conference championship again, then loses in the divisional round yet again, followed up by not making the playoffs the next year, then losing in the conference championship again, then finally winning a Super Bowl, and missing the playoffs the next year...... if so... you'd love Bill Cowher... a proven loser.

 

I had Cowher fever for awhile. I'm not going to lie. Over the years, I have realized that I doubt neither he nor Gruden will ever get back into coaching simply because they have more to lose than they have to gain.