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(04-01-2020, 11:35 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]This situation is a true win-win for us this upcoming season.

We find out whether or not Minshew is the real deal - and build a team around him/the Jags to succeed.

Or we're in play for Trevor Lawrence in the following draft.

Exactly. This is also a tough schedule on paper this year. Would rather not to take a rookie QB from this class. There's too many question marks between Tagovailoa's durability, Herbert's inconsistency, inaccuracy and lack of "fire" in the huddle and Love pretty much came out of nowhere last minute as we typically see every year at the QB position. And his numbers were pretty lack luster last year.

Take your chance with Minshew. Build around him in this year's draft. And he fails he fails. You have a pair of first round picks to move up to land Lawrence or maybe even land Fields to take over the reigns. And you still have Minshew as a back-up on a cheap rookie contract. It only serves to benefit this team in the long run.

Rushing for a QB in this year's draft would remind me of 2003 all over again where they could have rolled another year with Brunell / Garrard but couldn't wait to draft Leftwich. The following year then results in one of the best QB classes during the modern era in RD1 between Manning, Rivers & Roethlisberger. This team missed out stupendously with Leftwich the year before.

Unfair to expect a jump in performance with this PATHETIC offensive line. Literal turnstiles.

Until the offensive line goes from offensive to adequate, my expectations for this team and Minshew are extremely low.

(04-01-2020, 12:11 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Unfair to expect a jump in performance with this PATHETIC offensive line. Literal turnstiles.

Until the offensive line goes from offensive to adequate, my expectations for this team and Minshew are extremely low.

I think that's why Jay Gruden and Ben McAdoo were hired this off season. West coast philosophies, timing routes, get the ball in and out of the QB's hands and dose defenses with a healthy running game or short, flexible passing game that involves the RB group.

Where Flip failed last year I think you'll see Gruden excel at. I think he'll call a much, much better game overall. They still have the draft to fix some of these issues on the offensive line as well. They stand to gain one of the top three, four OT's and probably one of the top five, six OG's as well.

Plenty of draft choices to be optimistic this year. And it's one of the few things I like about Caldwell. He's good at finding players late in drafts. And he's been fairly good at making trade deals. I wouldn't worry too much right now.

One thing to keep in mind, Minshew started to struggle after he lost Oshay for the season. His rapport with the other TEs was non existent.

(04-01-2020, 09:34 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Mishew was pretty pathetic in the 2nd half of the season (December) when teams finally studied film on him. Am I the only one that watched the December games against the Bucs, Chargers, and Falcons. Heck, even against the Raiders, he was pretty lame until they went into prevent defense in the 4th quarter.

December 2019
Bucs - Jags down 25-0 at halftime and had 3 points through 3 quarters
Raiders - Jags down 16-3 at halftime and had 6 points through 3 quarters
Chargers - Jags down 24-3 at halftime and 41-10 through 3 quarters
Falcons - Jags down 17-3 at halftime and had 6 points through 3 quarters.

Summarized -- in 4 games, the Jags had a total of 9 points in the 1st half (losing 92 to 9)

Summarized - in 4 games, the Jags had a total of 25 points by the end of the 3rd quarter.

THIS IS [BLEEP] PATHETIC !!!

The offensive line was pethic and was more responsible for the scrambling out of the pocket then his decision to leave it. It was even more glaring when Folds replaced him at the position, a pocket passer who looked like the worst quarterback in the league do to a pass rush that prevented anytime to make his reads and get the ball out. Even under the worst conditions as a rookie he was breaking records for a first year quarterback thrown in the fire with very little time to get the ball out and make his reads. If you watch him when he had time to step up and throw the ball he had excellent ball placement and threaded the needle at times. the only criticism I have is he missed passes underneath because he was always looking to go down field. That said God knows we do not want another quarterback who dumps the ball off on every play short of the first down. we had to endure that for too long. If we fix the oline I will take the heat but I think we have a franchise quarterback and will have a better season then most expect. It is no secret that every team that played to patriots had to get pressure on Brady or it was game over by halftime. Most would agree the best quarterback to play the game could be slowed down if you could get pressure on him, So how would anyone expect a rookie under the worst conditions to handle a situation that Brady a seasoned professional had trouble with even at the level he played at. We may have a better season then most expect if we fix the offensive line and give the kid some time to step up and make plays instead of scrambling every play to get time to throw. He was a breath of fresh air even under the worst conditions and if they draft correctly and fix the line and bring in some weapons the kid will be just fine.

He already took the big jump going from the 'stache to full on beard. The League has no chance this year.

One thing that makes me optimistic about Gardner getting to the next level is the comeback ability he showed last year. He seems to have gift for rising to the occasion, even if he dug the hole himself... If he can continue to show that and get off to better starts, he could have a really successful career.

For some reference on how uncommon comebacks have been for us in recent years.
Sample of 4th quarter comebacks of QBs from JAX history. Note these are career totals so some may be with other teams.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/l...career.htm

Brunell: 16 (over 11 years, Jags, Washington), Avg: 1.45/ year, Peak: 4 (1998)
Garrard: 10 (over 6 years Jags) , Avg: 1.67/ year, , Peak: 4 (2008)
Foles: 8 (6 seasons Eagles, Rams), Avg: 1.33/ year, Peak: 2 (2014)
Gabbert: 7 (4 seasons Jags, 49ers, Cardinals, Tacks), Avg: 1.75/ year, Peak: 2 (qty 3 none Jags...)
Leftwich: 7 (4 seasons Jags), Avg: 1.75/ year, Peak: 4 (2004)
Bortles: 6 (5 seasons Jags), Avg: 1.2/ year, Peak: 3 (2015)
Minshew: 3(1 season Jags), Avg: 3/ year, Peak: 3 (2019)

Just for fun/ depression some all time greats: Post season and regular
Manning 45 (over 17 years, Horse Teams), Avg: 2.7/ year, Peak: 7 (2009)
Brady 45 (over 19 years, Pats), Avg: 2.4/ year, Peak: 5 (2013)
Brees 37 (over 18 years, Chargers, Saints), Avg: 2.1/ year, Peak: 6 (2013)

Good post, Ruff. Intriguing stat. You hope you don't get into too many deep comeback situations, but treasure having that QB who delivers in such times. His win in Mile High sold me. I was like, this never happens to us. Was just waiting for the miscue somewhere in that sequence of events leading to the Lambo winner. Ms. Cam's side show and all Wink

(04-02-2020, 12:11 PM)BritJag Wrote: [ -> ]Good post, Ruff. Intriguing stat. You hope you don't get into too many deep comeback situations, but treasure having that QB who delivers in such times. His win in Mile High sold me. I was like, this never happens to us. Was just waiting for the miscue somewhere in that sequence of events leading to the Lambo winner. Ms. Cam's side show and all

Thanks, and that was definitely when I started keying on that ability. The Oakland one is almost crazier though. We were LIFELESS for the entire game. Last game in Oakland ever, and he figures out a way to score twice in the last 10 minutes.
I was surprised anyone made it back to JAX alive though.

If he can get more consistent in his play I think he could do well next year. He did a lot right but hes gotta clean up some of the issues he had at the end of the season.

I’m looking for a big jump this year too...from Marrone..off a bridge..kidding...

Marrone has to step up big time this year. Lead by example. Minshew did his jump last year.

Maybe with Minshew's ability to ignite comebacks we won't see Marrone's drawn look of absolute resignation when there's still time to rally the troops.

(04-02-2020, 08:35 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe with Minshew's ability to ignite comebacks we won't see Marrone's drawn look of absolute resignation when there's still time to rally the troops.

I heard that with a minute left on the clock before halftime, they might even let him throw the ball...…...

(04-01-2020, 08:42 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2020, 08:33 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]What is there to improve?

...

two things:

*fumbles

The only real issue. He has to feel that pressure more.

(04-02-2020, 08:35 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]One thing that makes me optimistic about Gardner getting to the next level is the comeback ability he showed last year. He seems to have gift for rising to the occasion, even if he dug the hole himself... If he can continue to show that and get off to better starts, he could have a really successful career.

For some reference on how uncommon comebacks have been for us in recent years.
Sample of 4th quarter comebacks of QBs from JAX history. Note these are career totals so some may be with other teams.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/l...career.htm

Brunell: 16 (over 11 years, Jags, Washington), Avg: 1.45/ year, Peak: 4 (1998)
Garrard: 10 (over 6 years Jags) , Avg: 1.67/ year, , Peak: 4 (2008)
Foles: 8 (6 seasons Eagles, Rams), Avg: 1.33/ year, Peak: 2 (2014)
Gabbert: 7 (4 seasons Jags, 49ers, Cardinals, Tacks), Avg: 1.75/ year, Peak: 2 (qty 3 none Jags...)
Leftwich: 7 (4 seasons Jags), Avg: 1.75/ year, Peak: 4 (2004)
Bortles: 6 (5 seasons Jags), Avg: 1.2/ year, Peak: 3 (2015)
Minshew: 3(1 season Jags), Avg: 3/ year, Peak: 3 (2019)

Just for fun/ depression some all time greats: Post season and regular
Manning 45 (over 17 years, Horse Teams), Avg: 2.7/ year, Peak: 7 (2009)
Brady 45 (over 19 years, Pats), Avg: 2.4/ year, Peak: 5 (2013)
Brees 37 (over 18 years, Chargers, Saints), Avg: 2.1/ year, Peak: 6 (2013)

Could be simplified to how QBs perform at the end of close games. Bad ones, like the Jags have mostly had, [BLEEP] the bed and throw inexplicable picks under the pressure to perform. The great ones calmly work their teams into position to get wins and have the defense on their heels. Sometimes a guy doesn't get that many comeback wins because his team's defense is terrible, but as Vic used to say, it's all about crunch time.

If I’m Dave, I’m taking an OT and an OG with the first 2 picks, easy.

(04-04-2020, 09:04 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]If I’m Dave, I’m taking an OT and an OG with the first 2 picks, easy.

Meh. Depends on which OT it is and at 20 you could be in position to take the best OG in the draft but that's probably way too damn high and a reach there with other positions available.

Trust your draft board. Trust the process. A WR that can take the top off a defense and compliment Chark could pay just as much dividends in this offense. And a star player on defense that creates turnovers every other week or gets this defense off the field on 3rd downs could be just as viable to the offense in general.

(04-04-2020, 11:17 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-04-2020, 09:04 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]If I’m Dave, I’m taking an OT and an OG with the first 2 picks, easy.

Meh. Depends on which OT it is and at 20 you could be in position to take the best OG in the draft but that's probably way too damn high and a reach there with other positions available.

Trust your draft board. Trust the process. A WR that can take the top off a defense and compliment Chark could pay just as much dividends in this offense. And a star player on defense that creates turnovers every other week or gets this defense off the field on 3rd downs could be just as viable to the offense in general.

I understand your philosophy of BAP, but we’re at the point in this franchise where we literally need to force draft O-Lineman. Minshew will 100% fail if our line doesn’t improve from last season. As long as we’re not missing out on a generational talent at QB (Which we’re most likely not) I say draft o line.

(04-04-2020, 11:34 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-04-2020, 11:17 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Meh. Depends on which OT it is and at 20 you could be in position to take the best OG in the draft but that's probably way too damn high and a reach there with other positions available.

Trust your draft board. Trust the process. A WR that can take the top off a defense and compliment Chark could pay just as much dividends in this offense. And a star player on defense that creates turnovers every other week or gets this defense off the field on 3rd downs could be just as viable to the offense in general.

I understand your philosophy of BAP, but we’re at the point in this franchise where we literally need to force draft O-Lineman. Minshew will 100% fail if our line doesn’t improve from last season. As long as we’re not missing out on a generational talent at QB (Which we’re most likely not) I say draft o line.

It's never time to pass up JJ Watt for Gabbert. That's where need gets you, passing up better players because you think you already have someone decent that plays the same position.

Or think Leftwich over Suggs then Reggie Williams over big Ben then mattloaf over Rodgers. Needs based drafting sets you up for long term failure while bap drafting sets you up for decades of success.

(04-04-2020, 12:22 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-04-2020, 11:34 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]I understand your philosophy of BAP, but we’re at the point in this franchise where we literally need to force draft O-Lineman. Minshew will 100% fail if our line doesn’t improve from last season. As long as we’re not missing out on a generational talent at QB (Which we’re most likely not) I say draft o line.

It's never time to pass up JJ Watt for Gabbert. That's where need gets you, passing up better players because you think you already have someone decent that plays the same position.

Or think Leftwich over Suggs then Reggie Williams over big Ben then mattloaf over Rodgers. Needs based drafting sets you up for long term failure while bap drafting sets you up for decades of success.

Except every bap pick has need included. They took Gabbert and Leftwich because they thought both would be high level franchise QBs, and thus the most valuable players in the draft.

Don't mistake a terrible evaluation for them willingly choosing worse players due to need. They thought they were drafting the most valuable player at the time

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