(04-20-2020, 03:29 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 03:10 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If you have 200k a year in taxable income there is no excuse for you not to have enough savings to last a long time without a government handout.
TRM, curious what your income threshold is for that criteria?
My income threshold for that is probably around $40,000.00 or so (here in the Jacksonville area). There is no excuse for people not saving anything. Heck, I see people with incomes less than that buying the newest "smart phone", subscribing to Netflix or some other streaming service and probably has a "smart TV". The customary advice is to save at least 3 months worth of expenses in a savings account of some kind. I have always stressed to my children to put money into a savings account and don't touch it. Even if it's just $5 or $10 per paycheck, put it in there and leave it alone.
Most people spend more than that each week buying a coffee at Starbucks.
(04-20-2020, 03:29 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 03:10 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If you have 200k a year in taxable income there is no excuse for you not to have enough savings to last a long time without a government handout.
TRM, curious what your income threshold is for that criteria?
At almost any income level, when you get a job, you need to start saving. From day one. Otherwise, what are you working for? Just to survive day to day? Aren't you working for the day you can tell your boss to go jump in a lake? I don't understand why anyone would not be working for their independence from day one.
(04-20-2020, 04:06 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 03:29 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]TRM, curious what your income threshold is for that criteria?
At almost any income level, when you get a job, you need to start saving. From day one. Otherwise, what are you working for? Just to survive day to day? Aren't you working for the day you can tell your boss to go jump in a lake? I don't understand why anyone would not be working for their independence from day one.
I know this might shock you, but some people actually...gasp...LIKE their jobs. It's that a riot?
(04-20-2020, 04:06 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 03:29 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]TRM, curious what your income threshold is for that criteria?
At almost any income level, when you get a job, you need to start saving. From day one. Otherwise, what are you working for? Just to survive day to day? Aren't you working for the day you can tell your boss to go jump in a lake? I don't understand why anyone would not be working for their independence from day one.
Well, I know people who live paycheck to paycheck but also contribute a lot to their 401(k), so people might see "saving" from a retirement standpoint or a cousin Eddie bury money in your backyard standpoint.
Money is very easy to get these days and it isn't difficult to get yourself in a financial situation you will regret later. Take the current 84 month 0% APR auto dealers are pitching!
(04-20-2020, 04:50 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 04:06 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]At almost any income level, when you get a job, you need to start saving. From day one. Otherwise, what are you working for? Just to survive day to day? Aren't you working for the day you can tell your boss to go jump in a lake? I don't understand why anyone would not be working for their independence from day one.
I know this might shock you, but some people actually...gasp...LIKE their jobs. It's that a riot?
I have known lots of people who liked their jobs, and then for any number of reasons, their job disappeared or changed. Liking your job is no excuse for not saving up a nest egg to either tide you over in tough times, or, eventually, declare financial independence.
(04-21-2020, 06:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 04:50 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I know this might shock you, but some people actually...gasp...LIKE their jobs. It's that a riot?
I have known lots of people who liked their jobs, and then for any number of reasons, their job disappeared or changed. Liking your job is no excuse for not saving up a nest egg to either tide you over in tough times, or, eventually, declare financial independence.
Considering that an estimated 75+% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, are you really
that surprised?
(04-21-2020, 06:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 04:50 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I know this might shock you, but some people actually...gasp...LIKE their jobs. It's that a riot?
I have known lots of people who liked their jobs, and then for any number of reasons, their job disappeared or changed. Liking your job is no excuse for not saving up a nest egg to either tide you over in tough times, or, eventually, declare financial independence.
You specifically said that people are living to go tell their boss to go jump in a lake. That is nothing like your response here. If I was independently wealthy I would still work in my career, it's fun and I get to help sick people. The idea that work is not fulfilling and unlimited materialistic leisure is everyone's goal is one of the worst ideas ideas in our society.
(04-21-2020, 07:22 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2020, 06:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I have known lots of people who liked their jobs, and then for any number of reasons, their job disappeared or changed. Liking your job is no excuse for not saving up a nest egg to either tide you over in tough times, or, eventually, declare financial independence.
You specifically said that people are living to go tell their boss to go jump in a lake. That is nothing like your response here. If I was independently wealthy I would still work in my career, it's fun and I get to help sick people. The idea that work is not fulfilling and unlimited materialistic leisure is everyone's goal is one of the worst ideas ideas in our society.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think people
are all living that way. I think people
should live that way. Financial independence should be a person's goal from the day they are born, whether they love their job or not.
(04-21-2020, 08:19 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2020, 07:22 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You specifically said that people are living to go tell their boss to go jump in a lake. That is nothing like your response here. If I was independently wealthy I would still work in my career, it's fun and I get to help sick people. The idea that work is not fulfilling and unlimited materialistic leisure is everyone's goal is one of the worst ideas ideas in our society.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think people are all living that way. I think people should live that way. Financial independence should be a person's goal from the day they are born, whether they love their job or not.
You aren't born with the concept of financial independence. It is an acquired trait through experience. You have to make mistakes in order to understand the true power of financial independence.
(04-21-2020, 08:32 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2020, 08:19 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think people are all living that way. I think people should live that way. Financial independence should be a person's goal from the day they are born, whether they love their job or not.
You aren't born with the concept of financial independence. It is an acquired trait through experience. You have to make mistakes in order to understand the true power of financial independence.
That is often true. But such knowledge doesn't have to come from mistakes.
I think personal finance should be taught in high school. Saving, investing, the power of compounding over a period of time, how to start a business, what jobs pay well, how much it costs to raise a child, and so on. We can see the problem we have currently with people who lose their job and immediately cannot pay their rent or wind up at the food bank. Or people who graduate college with a worthless degree and loads of student debt. The apparent widespread lack of personal financial skills carries a huge cost to our society. Ordinary people driving nice cars lining up at food banks!
I know I'm probably coming across a little self-righteous, and believe me, I know there are a lot of people who are in a tough spot financially through no fault of their own. But we are bailing out people we shouldn't have to be bailing out.
(04-21-2020, 06:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 04:50 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I know this might shock you, but some people actually...gasp...LIKE their jobs. It's that a riot?
I have known lots of people who liked their jobs, and then for any number of reasons, their job disappeared or changed. Liking your job is no excuse for not saving up a nest egg to either tide you over in tough times, or, eventually, declare financial independence.
I agree, everyone should have a nest egg if they can. And at 200k, you can
(04-21-2020, 08:57 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2020, 08:32 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]You aren't born with the concept of financial independence. It is an acquired trait through experience. You have to make mistakes in order to understand the true power of financial independence.
That is often true. But such knowledge doesn't have to come from mistakes.
I think personal finance should be taught in high school. Saving, investing, the power of compounding over a period of time, how to start a business, what jobs pay well, how much it costs to raise a child, and so on. We can see the problem we have currently with people who lose their job and immediately cannot pay their rent or wind up at the food bank. Or people who graduate college with a worthless degree and loads of student debt. The apparent widespread lack of personal financial skills carries a huge cost to our society. Ordinary people driving nice cars lining up at food banks!
I know I'm probably coming across a little self-righteous, and believe me, I know there are a lot of people who are in a tough spot financially through no fault of their own. But we are bailing out people we shouldn't have to be bailing out.
I agree 100% with your whole post and especially the part in bold.
The thing is observe how people are using "stimulus" money. Some people such as myself will donate towards others that might be impacted worse than me. Others are treating it as a "bonus" and rather than save they are spending on "wants" rather than "needs". Finally you have the segment of the population that actually needs help right now using it to pay their bills (and not the bill at Ruth's Chris restaurant).
(04-21-2020, 03:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2020, 08:57 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]That is often true. But such knowledge doesn't have to come from mistakes.
I think personal finance should be taught in high school. Saving, investing, the power of compounding over a period of time, how to start a business, what jobs pay well, how much it costs to raise a child, and so on. We can see the problem we have currently with people who lose their job and immediately cannot pay their rent or wind up at the food bank. Or people who graduate college with a worthless degree and loads of student debt. The apparent widespread lack of personal financial skills carries a huge cost to our society. Ordinary people driving nice cars lining up at food banks!
I know I'm probably coming across a little self-righteous, and believe me, I know there are a lot of people who are in a tough spot financially through no fault of their own. But we are bailing out people we shouldn't have to be bailing out.
I agree 100% with your whole post and especially the part in bold.
The thing is observe how people are using "stimulus" money. Some people such as myself will donate towards others that might be impacted worse than me. Others are treating it as a "bonus" and rather than save they are spending on "wants" rather than "needs". Finally you have the segment of the population that actually needs help right now using it to pay their bills (and not the bill at Ruth's Chris restaurant).
You have a 3rd group, those using it on wants when their needs are not met
(04-21-2020, 03:27 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2020, 03:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I agree 100% with your whole post and especially the part in bold.
The thing is observe how people are using "stimulus" money. Some people such as myself will donate towards others that might be impacted worse than me. Others are treating it as a "bonus" and rather than save they are spending on "wants" rather than "needs". Finally you have the segment of the population that actually needs help right now using it to pay their bills (and not the bill at Ruth's Chris restaurant).
You have a 3rd group, those using it on wants when their needs are not met
Actually that would be a 4th group, but you are right.
Harvard is returning the money.
I am guessing that even though they were legally entitled to it, it's not worth the public flogging.
(04-23-2020, 07:37 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Harvard is returning the money.
I am guessing that even though they were legally entitled to it, it's not worth the public flogging.
Same thing happened with Shake Shack. Remains to be seen with Ruths
(04-20-2020, 03:10 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 02:19 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]My complaint was that the government assumes people in a certain income bracket do not experience hardships from a pandemic.
Let me break it down for you like this. Let's say hypothetically I make 200K a year and 75% of that 200K is from rental property income. When judges won't take eviction cases and people stop paying rent because some talking head on TV thought it was a good idea that directly impacts said person making 200K a year.
See how that whole trickle down thing can impact people making too much to qualify for stimulus relief?
If you have 200k a year in taxable income there is no excuse for you not to have enough savings to last a long time without a government handout.
I disagree. If you make $200k/year and even if half of that income is from rental income, there is risk that a large portion of that rental income is not going to get paid for months. As such, even if the rent does get paid, why does Trailer Joey hanging out in Sin City Arlington drawing welfare checks from the Gov get $1,200 whereas someone contributing to the economy most likely paying 24% taxes get nothing. In essence, Trailer Joey is suffering no hardship since he had no income outside of his welfare checks to begin with.
(04-23-2020, 09:03 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2020, 03:10 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If you have 200k a year in taxable income there is no excuse for you not to have enough savings to last a long time without a government handout.
I disagree. If you make $200k/year and even if half of that income is from rental income, there is risk that a large portion of that rental income is not going to get paid for months. As such, even if the rent does get paid, why does Trailer Joey hanging out in Sin City Arlington drawing welfare checks from the Gov get $1,200 whereas someone contributing to the economy most likely paying 24% taxes get nothing. In essence, Trailer Joey is suffering no hardship since he had no income outside of his welfare checks to begin with.
Thank you! One of the few (unexpected) people to understand the point I was trying to make.
I believe TRM is implying that everyone should maintain the same standard of living and if a pandemic somehow prevents a 200K earner from paying their $3,000 a month mortgage, then they are irresponsible for taking it in the first place.
(04-23-2020, 10:16 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 09:03 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. If you make $200k/year and even if half of that income is from rental income, there is risk that a large portion of that rental income is not going to get paid for months. As such, even if the rent does get paid, why does Trailer Joey hanging out in Sin City Arlington drawing welfare checks from the Gov get $1,200 whereas someone contributing to the economy most likely paying 24% taxes get nothing. In essence, Trailer Joey is suffering no hardship since he had no income outside of his welfare checks to begin with.
Thank you! One of the few (unexpected) people to understand the point I was trying to make.
I believe TRM is implying that everyone should maintain the same standard of living and if a pandemic somehow prevents a 200K earner from paying their $3,000 a month mortgage, then they are irresponsible for taking it in the first place.
Well conventional wisdom is to have at least 3 months worth of income/expenses on hand. A $200k/year earner might just be living out of their means if they have a $3,000 a month mortgage and can't afford it or is hurt that they don't get some of the "free" money from the government meant to help people with lesser means.
Perhaps the $200k/year earner should be more financially disciplined and reduce their "standard of living" by not eating at Ruth's Chris so often. Not getting the government "stimulus" money shouldn't hurt such a person.
I by no means earn that much, and I don't want/need the help. If/when we do get a check we will use it to help others that truly need it. You know, like the cooks, bartenders, waitstaff, etc. at many establishments just like Ruth's Chris.