(04-23-2020, 04:23 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 04:21 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Tua is the only 1st round QB I'd be okayish with and only if he fell to #9. He is still a risk, but one worth taking if he falls to 9.
Tua is the only QB I wouldn't be upset about if we took him in the 1st. I feel he is a guy the team could rally around and I feel he is the only guy who could push Minshew for the starting spot next year not named Joe Barrow.
I wouldn't rush Tua to start in 2020 in likely a hectic/shortened pre-season given COVID. Let the hip heal completely and Tua get completely back to football shape.
Gardner still gets the 2020 season. If he blow it out of the water, then you have a decision. But its one basically every team would love. Plus both would be on super cheap deals.
(04-23-2020, 04:52 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 04:23 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Tua is the only QB I wouldn't be upset about if we took him in the 1st. I feel he is a guy the team could rally around and I feel he is the only guy who could push Minshew for the starting spot next year not named Joe Barrow.
I wouldn't rush Tua to start in 2020 in likely a hectic/shortened pre-season given COVID. Let the hip heal completely and Tua get completely back to football shape.
Gardner still gets the 2020 season. If he blow it out of the water, then you have a decision. But its one basically every team would love. Plus both would be on super cheap deals.
Or we back ourselves into a huge corner by drafting Tua.
What if Minshew sucks and we only win 3-4 games and end up picking #1-3? That'd put us in position to get Lawrence or Fields. So are you going to pass on them because you have Tua who you hope can get healthy and be any good? Not a good situation to be in, imo.
(04-23-2020, 05:03 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 04:52 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't rush Tua to start in 2020 in likely a hectic/shortened pre-season given COVID. Let the hip heal completely and Tua get completely back to football shape.
Gardner still gets the 2020 season. If he blow it out of the water, then you have a decision. But its one basically every team would love. Plus both would be on super cheap deals.
Or we back ourselves into a huge corner by drafting Tua.
What if Minshew sucks and we only win 3-4 games and end up picking #1-3? That'd put us in position to get Lawrence or Fields. So are you going to pass on them because you have Tua who you hope can get healthy and be any good? Not a good situation to be in, imo.
I said you don't rush Tua. Is Minshew is that bad and even if Tua is slowly developed, he could get some play in December.
I know teams don't normally "stock up" on QB, but if anything Arizona showed that you can still get some value out of doing so when they traded Josh Rosen at basically his lowest market value. Elite QB play is so valuable that if you already at the pick with the opportunity and don't have to trade up, that should totally not be off the table.
Honestly, I don't expect Tua to be there at 9.
Taking a QB in RD1 tonight is [BLEEP] stupid. Especially when we still have a ton of holes to fill and the offensive line has had it's woes staying healthy and protecting anybody we've had back there at QB.
Burrow is a Bengal. He's off the table. Herbert lacks fire in the huddle. Misses big time with wide open opportunties and didn't elevate himself enough despite going back to Oregon. He's Blake Bortles.
Tagovailoa is being compared to Brunell, Wilson and Brees. Had he not had a laundry list of injury concerns with his mobility being a major factor towards his game that leads to said injuries? He's probably pushing Burrow to go number one overall tonight.
Forget Love. Not sure what that's all about. But he's not the answer. This team needs protection on offense, run stuffers on defense and guys that can cover and run sideline to sideline. After all of the trades made this off season?
A rookie [BLEEP] QB is NOT going to move the needle enough to salvage Marrone or Caldwell's [BLEEP] in 2020. The odds are slim to extremely none. They could have pursued Tom Brady, Philip Rivers and Cam Newton this off season. They didn't.
They traded Foles away for practically nothing in a showing of solidarity towards Minshew. It was the same move made last year when Foles was signed and Bortles was released. A QB tonight just doesn't make any sense.
And if the argument is that "Well. What if Caldwell and Marrone were told they would be here in 2021?". Ok. Again. All the more reason to let Minshew take the offense out on a spin after his rookie efforts with the intent to land Lawrence next year.
(04-23-2020, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Taking a QB in RD1 tonight is [BLEEP] stupid. Especially when we still have a ton of holes to fill and the offensive line has had it's woes staying healthy and protecting anybody we've had back there at QB.
Burrow is a Bengal. He's off the table. Herbert lacks fire in the huddle. Misses big time with wide open opportunties and didn't elevate himself enough despite going back to Oregon. He's Blake Bortles.
Tagovailoa is being compared to Brunell, Wilson and Brees. Had he not had a laundry list of injury concerns with his mobility being a major factor towards his game that leads to said injuries? He's probably pushing Burrow to go number one overall tonight.
Forget Love. Not sure what that's all about. But he's not the answer. This team needs protection on offense, run stuffers on defense and guys that can cover and run sideline to sideline. After all of the trades made this off season?
A rookie [BLEEP] QB is NOT going to move the needle enough to salvage Marrone or Caldwell's [BLEEP] in 2020. The odds are slim to extremely none. They could have pursued Tom Brady, Philip Rivers and Cam Newton this off season. They didn't.
They traded Foles away for practically nothing in a showing of solidarity towards Minshew. It was the same move made last year when Foles was signed and Bortles was released. A QB tonight just doesn't make any sense.
And if the argument is that "Well. What if Caldwell and Marrone were told they would be here in 2021?". Ok. Again. All the more reason to let Minshew take the offense out on a spin after his rookie efforts with the intent to land Lawrence next year.
Are you sure? I don't watch college football but looking at Herbert's highlights I saw the opposite, if anything I was a bit concerned that some of his highlights were TD passes to WRs who were wide open.
Either way I wouldn't be on Herbert.
I like Tua but I feel like the dude is an injury waiting to happen.
(04-23-2020, 05:39 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Taking a QB in RD1 tonight is [BLEEP] stupid. Especially when we still have a ton of holes to fill and the offensive line has had it's woes staying healthy and protecting anybody we've had back there at QB.
Burrow is a Bengal. He's off the table. Herbert lacks fire in the huddle. Misses big time with wide open opportunties and didn't elevate himself enough despite going back to Oregon. He's Blake Bortles.
Tagovailoa is being compared to Brunell, Wilson and Brees. Had he not had a laundry list of injury concerns with his mobility being a major factor towards his game that leads to said injuries? He's probably pushing Burrow to go number one overall tonight.
Forget Love. Not sure what that's all about. But he's not the answer. This team needs protection on offense, run stuffers on defense and guys that can cover and run sideline to sideline. After all of the trades made this off season?
A rookie [BLEEP] QB is NOT going to move the needle enough to salvage Marrone or Caldwell's [BLEEP] in 2020. The odds are slim to extremely none. They could have pursued Tom Brady, Philip Rivers and Cam Newton this off season. They didn't.
They traded Foles away for practically nothing in a showing of solidarity towards Minshew. It was the same move made last year when Foles was signed and Bortles was released. A QB tonight just doesn't make any sense.
And if the argument is that "Well. What if Caldwell and Marrone were told they would be here in 2021?". Ok. Again. All the more reason to let Minshew take the offense out on a spin after his rookie efforts with the intent to land Lawrence next year.
Are you sure? I don't watch college football but looking at Herbert's highlights I saw the opposite, if anything I was a bit concerned that some of his highlights were TD passes to WRs who were wide open.
Either way I wouldn't be on Herbert.
I like Tua but I feel like the dude is an injury waiting to happen.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fanduel...e5t98m54qr
Idk what it would take to move up to 3, but if we lose 9 and our 2nd 1st rd pick I may shed a tear
(04-23-2020, 03:00 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 12:42 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]I don't particularly like Herbert...but I don't get the Gabbert comparison.
Gabbert's problem is that he's a [BLEEP] that is scared to get hit. I can't say I've seen that in Herbert when I've watched him.
No Herbert has an issue hitting wide open WRs in stride...
which... is just as concerning to me as someone who is afraid of getting hit after getting completely mauled by a terrible OL his first season.
Gabbert developed the ghosts, he didn't have them coming out of college iirc.
Herbert struggles with touch, deep ball accuracy, fades, and had lots of bats/INTs on balls thrown into the flat.
And that was against PAC12 comp, not exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to defenses.
Physically he has "all the tools" I just don't think he has "it".
Which really ended up being Gabs issues too. Dude had the size, arm strength, etc. Just didn't have the "it".
Gabbert was a flawed prospect and shouldn't have gone first round. He would sack himself at times and folded under pressure like a lawn chair (the ghosts were there at Mizzou, it wasn't something he developed here). He also didn't make stick throws ex: 3rd and 10 & too often he'd hit a shallow cross or a hitch thats well short of the first down. on first down its the right read but his situational awareness and QB IQ just wasn't there. To this day I can't believe we drafted him, let alone traded a 2nd round pick to move up for him when we still had Garrard coming off an 8-8 season. We have 2 first round picks next year, why trade up for Tua "Hawaiian Leftwich" Tagovailoa when Minshew could be the guy, and if he isn't we trade up next year as it's every bit as good of a QB class.
If the Jags are trading up, it's for Okudah. He's every bit the athlete Ramsey was (Ramsey vertical was 41.5; Okudah's is 41 which is top 5 all time at the combine) if we can get him for the same compensation/less compensation we got Ramsey for it's an absolute steal as he's all of the talent & production at a fraction of the cost and none of the drama (and secretly wanting to be a Tack).
(04-23-2020, 05:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 05:39 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Are you sure? I don't watch college football but looking at Herbert's highlights I saw the opposite, if anything I was a bit concerned that some of his highlights were TD passes to WRs who were wide open.
Either way I wouldn't be on Herbert.
I like Tua but I feel like the dude is an injury waiting to happen.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fanduel...e5t98m54qr
I'm not really seeing the correlation between that stat and success at this level though. By that standard, josh rosen should be the cream of the crop, when he has busted harder than any of those guys.
(04-23-2020, 05:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 05:39 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Are you sure? I don't watch college football but looking at Herbert's highlights I saw the opposite, if anything I was a bit concerned that some of his highlights were TD passes to WRs who were wide open.
Either way I wouldn't be on Herbert.
I like Tua but I feel like the dude is an injury waiting to happen.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fanduel...e5t98m54qr
Thanks for the link!
Damn, worse than Josh Allen lol. Anyway, I doubt we draft him but who knows? we are talking about the GM that made Bortles the 3rd pick overall
(04-23-2020, 05:47 PM)Jags239 Wrote: [ -> ]Idk what it would take to move up to 3, but if we lose 9 and our 2nd 1st rd pick I may shed a tear
Me too.
Actually, I am not for giving up our 1sts, a 2nd or our 3rd.
[url=<blockquote][/url]
Quote:Feel like a move to 3 doesn’t happen. Likely never was on the cards to happen. Dave looking out for the Lions GM. But we’ll see. 9 to 3 prob too much to give up when the roster looks like ours.
— Dilla (@E_Dilla) April 23, 2020
(04-23-2020, 05:48 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 05:43 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fanduel...e5t98m54qr
I'm not really seeing the correlation between that stat and success at this level though. By that standard, josh rosen should be the cream of the crop, when he has busted harder than any of those guys.
Didn't like Rosen neither. Didn't like Darnold. Analysts are always going to hype up QB prospects. Jimmy Clausen was supposed to be a success and Jamarcus Russell was the 2nd coming of John Elway.
I saw enough of Herbert last year. He's not going to be an elite NFL QB. I see a poor man's Joe Flacco that needs a lot of help to make him succesful.
You're better off drafting Eason or Fromm on day two or three. Not joking. Lower risk choices with the same amount of ceiling.
I think we should ride with Minshew this season, this roster is just not that good. If we struggle mightily especially Minshew, then hopefully we are in a great spot to land a qb next year(possibly Lawrence). If not and Minshew shines, then it is a win win imo.
(04-23-2020, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]They traded Foles away for practically nothing in a showing of solidarity towards Minshew. It was the same move made last year when Foles was signed and Bortles was released. A QB tonight just doesn't make any sense.
They had, literally, millions of reasons to trade Foles that had nothing to do with Minshew. Plus, Foles sucked here. I still can't believe we fleeced Chicago.
If they've done their homework on Tua, and get him at 9, I'm all for it. Not a knock on Minshew, I've just learned a few lessons watching this team avoid great QBs in the draft these last few decades. Won't matter, he won't be there at 9.
I'm still a fan of Hurts at 42, but I'm now thinking he's not going to be there either.
I like Colorado's Montez and Hawaii's McDonald this year at QB. Both guys should be available in RD4 or later. Better fit. Lower risk. Allows them to add splash players on offense and defense tonight and tomorrow at much needed skill positions.
(04-23-2020, 05:58 PM)anonymous2112 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 05:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]They traded Foles away for practically nothing in a showing of solidarity towards Minshew. It was the same move made last year when Foles was signed and Bortles was released. A QB tonight just doesn't make any sense.
They had, literally, millions of reasons to trade Foles that had nothing to do with Minshew. Plus, Foles sucked here. I still can't believe we fleeced Chicago.
If they've done their homework on Tua, and get him at 9, I'm all for it. Not a knock on Minshew, I've just learned a few lessons watching this team avoid great QBs in the draft these last few decades. Won't matter, he won't be there at 9.
I'm still a fan of Hurts at 42, but I'm now thinking he's not going to be there either.
Taking Herbert or Tagovailoa would be like 2003 all over again where they went all in for Leftwich, shelved a promising 2nd year QB [Garrard] and lost out on a better QB class [Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger] in 2004.
It'll be a major mistake. Especially on a roster that's leaning more and more towards a rebuild. Ride it out with Minshew. Take your chances with Lawrence, Fields and next year's "Burrow' at the QB position and be done with it.
(04-23-2020, 06:08 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 05:58 PM)anonymous2112 Wrote: [ -> ]They had, literally, millions of reasons to trade Foles that had nothing to do with Minshew. Plus, Foles sucked here. I still can't believe we fleeced Chicago.
If they've done their homework on Tua, and get him at 9, I'm all for it. Not a knock on Minshew, I've just learned a few lessons watching this team avoid great QBs in the draft these last few decades. Won't matter, he won't be there at 9.
I'm still a fan of Hurts at 42, but I'm now thinking he's not going to be there either.
Taking Herbert or Tagovailoa would be like 2003 all over again where they went all in for Leftwich, shelved a promising 2nd year QB [Garrard] and lost out on a better QB class [Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger] in 2004.
It'll be a major mistake. Especially on a roster that's leaning more and more towards a rebuild. Ride it out with Minshew. Take your chances with Lawrence, Fields and next year's "Burrow' at the QB position and be done with it.
Or it’s rolling with Leftwich and passing on Big Ben....
(04-23-2020, 06:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 06:08 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Taking Herbert or Tagovailoa would be like 2003 all over again where they went all in for Leftwich, shelved a promising 2nd year QB [Garrard] and lost out on a better QB class [Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger] in 2004.
It'll be a major mistake. Especially on a roster that's leaning more and more towards a rebuild. Ride it out with Minshew. Take your chances with Lawrence, Fields and next year's "Burrow' at the QB position and be done with it.
Or it’s rolling with Leftwich and passing on Big Ben....
There's not a Big Ben in this QB class. Maybe Burrow at best. Herbert has the arm strength but lacks accuracy. Tagovailoa is a Glass Cannon coming out of college and could end up like Mr. Glass within two years just like RGIII.
The risks are too heavy this year at QB. Passing up on a chance to land Lawrence or Fields next year is a mistake. It would be different if Minshew was a dud last year and we were picking 3rd overall tonight.
But that didn't happen.
(04-23-2020, 06:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 06:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Or it’s rolling with Leftwich and passing on Big Ben....
There's not a Big Ben in this QB class. Maybe Burrow at best. Herbert has the arm strength but lacks accuracy. Tagovailoa is a Glass Cannon coming out of college and could end up like Mr. Glass within two years just like RGIII.
The risks are too heavy this year at QB. Passing up on a chance to land Lawrence or Fields next year is a mistake. It would be different if Minshew was a dud last year and we were picking 3rd overall tonight.
But that didn't happen.
There’s always risks dude. It’s the draft.
Big Ben played in the MAC. Huge risk.
People passed on Brees in FA because he was an injury risk. Frank Gore had multiple ACL surgeries coming into the draft....
My point is that the draft is a crap shoot. Tua has the goods and if your only knock is healthy then to me, I look past that and swing for the fences.
(04-23-2020, 06:18 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 06:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]There's not a Big Ben in this QB class. Maybe Burrow at best. Herbert has the arm strength but lacks accuracy. Tagovailoa is a Glass Cannon coming out of college and could end up like Mr. Glass within two years just like RGIII.
The risks are too heavy this year at QB. Passing up on a chance to land Lawrence or Fields next year is a mistake. It would be different if Minshew was a dud last year and we were picking 3rd overall tonight.
But that didn't happen.
There’s always risks dude. It’s the draft.
Big Ben played in the MAC. Huge risk.
People passed on Brees in FA because he was an injury risk. Frank Gore had multiple ACL surgeries coming into the draft....
My point is that the draft is a crap shoot. Tua has the goods and if your only knock is healthy then to me, I look past that and swing for the fences.
I don't see Tagovailoa making it past the Chargers personally. He's going to be worth the risk to them or Miami. I don't think he's worth the risk for us given all of the issues on this roster. I think they have to focus on Minshew in 2020. Swing for the fences around him. Look to better prospects in 2021.
Tua has all the goods. Sure. So did RGIII. So did Wentz. Availability is sometimes the best ability. If he's that brittle now coming out of college and the SEC you know damn well any time this kid takes a hit while running or takes an unblocked sack you'll be holding your breath like you were in that movie "A Quiet Place."