Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

The Redskins offense sucked.   Their 266 points was last in the NFL

I expect the similar results here in Jacksonville.

(05-26-2020, 07:32 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]The Redskins offense sucked.   Their 266 points was last in the NFL

I expect the similar results here in Jacksonville.

The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

(05-26-2020, 08:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 07:32 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]The Redskins offense sucked.   Their 266 points was last in the NFL

I expect the similar results here in Jacksonville.

The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

But he used a large, bolded, font....

(05-25-2020, 04:57 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I read where Shenault is a 4.3 guy but ran a 4.58 with an injury. But really none of that matters...Matt Jones ran a 4.3 and was the slowest WR in the NFL.

Shenault has another gear with the ball in his hands. He looks to score much like a Steve Smith with some Sammy Watkins in him too.

I remember Shenault saying he was a 4.3 guy without the injury, but I have no corroboration of his actual pre-injury time.

Watching his tape, it's not a stretch to say he plays faster than his combine time.  How much faster is the question.

A high 4.4. when healthy would not be a shock.

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(05-25-2020, 09:18 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]I actually didn't like the Gruden hire at first, I guess that was mainly because i really didn't like him as a HC. Looking back at his tenure as OC at Cincinnati however.. I am excited about what the future will hold for our offense. Plus, we got MInshew

Gruden had the Skins at 6-3 in 2018 before Alex Smith got hurt the 10th game.

Nevermind. 

Talent/injuries to talent has no bearing whatsoever on coaching results.

(05-26-2020, 08:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 07:32 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]The Redskins offense sucked.   Their 266 points was last in the NFL

I expect the similar results here in Jacksonville.

The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

Did you watch our December games when we were outscored in the 1st half by the following:

Dec 1 - Bucs 25 - Jags 0
Dec 8 - Chargers 24 - Jags 3
Dec 15 - Raiders 16 - Jags 3
Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 
Dec 29 -  Colts 20 - Jags 16 

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half.  Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact).  Teams are on to Minshew.  All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.

(05-26-2020, 12:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 08:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

Did you watch our December games when we were outscored in the 1st half by the following:

Dec 1 - Bucs 25 - Jags 0 (Nick Foles started who gave up 3 TO on the first 3 drives. Hard to come back from that)
Dec 8 - Chargers 24 - Jags 3 (Defense couldn't get off the field to save the lives and let Chargers run the ball down their throats. How was this the offenses fault?)
Dec 15 - Raiders 16 - Jags 3 (This was definitely bad offensive play in the 1st half.)
Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 (Definitely poor offense. But the game basically started off 14-0 Falcons before the offense gets a play, hard to come back from that.)
Dec 29 -  Colts 20 - Jags 16 (No punts in the 1st half, so not sure why this is included. Still poor redzone offense, but that is it.)

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half.  Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact).  Teams are on to Minshew.  All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.

1. Just like other teams have an offseason to prepare for Minshew. Minshew has an off season to watch tape of what other teams did to him and make adjustments.

2. This will be a different offense than last year; formations, routes, philosophies. So any tendencies that were there last year may not be immediately apparent for the beginning of the season at least. And they can better set up counters for as the season progresses specifically for Gardner that they couldn't do last year.

3. Minshew has a full off season to learn the playbook and Gruden to try to figure out how to best use him. As smart as Minshew was last year, does anyone really think they were using anything close to full playbook with him under center?

4. Jaguars had and still have one of the youngest offensive personnel groupings in the league. Most players take time to develop. OF course some may never do so, but throwing them all under the bus doesn't make a lot of sense. I get we are all frustrated, but blanket assessments that they are all bad never work. When things go bad or fail, it's not because everyone is subpar or needs to be replaced. 

Now I'm not saying I expect Minshew to break records or really even compete for the division in 2020. And yes, they all need to get better. The red zone offense was putrid and has been for 2 years now. The field position battle has been horrific over the past few years. 

But it is feasible for this offense to rebound to average in 2020. Of course the variance is high, but those are sometimes the cards you are dealt.

(05-26-2020, 12:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 08:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

Did you watch our December games when we were outscored in the 1st half by the following:

Dec 1 - Bucs 25 - Jags 0
Dec 8 - Chargers 24 - Jags 3
Dec 15 - Raiders 16 - Jags 3
Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 
Dec 29 -  Colts 20 - Jags 16 

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half.  Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact).  Teams are on to Minshew.  All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.

It's hard to be good on offense when you are having to come from way behind due to your defense being so terrible.

HURRICANE!!! Wrote:

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half. Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact). Teams are on to Minshew. All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.
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Stick a fork in him, he's stuck in the past! 

Minshew will never be able to grow beyond the player he was his rookie year. He's not able to watch more film in the offseason, increase his arm strength through targeted exercises gleaned from a pitching coach, accept coaching from two experienced offensive coordinators (McAdoo & Gruden), learn from a veteran (Glennon), and benefit from increased playmaking talent around him.

(05-26-2020, 12:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 08:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

Did you watch our December games when we were outscored in the 1st half by the following:

Dec 1 - Bucs 25 - Jags 0
Dec 8 - Chargers 24 - Jags 3
Dec 15 - Raiders 16 - Jags 3
Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 
Dec 29 -  Colts 20 - Jags 16 

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half.  Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact).  Teams are on to Minshew.  All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.

I may have spectacularly missed your point here, and if I did please don't hesitiate to point out my error (as if that were ever a problem on THIS board ) , but Gruden wasn't our offensive coordinator last year.  Furthermore, those games were played with a rookie at QB.

(05-26-2020, 12:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 08:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The 2019 redskins featured 203 attempts from a rookie QB who clearly wasn't ready yet and 247 from Case Keenum. 

Go to 2017 when they had a full season from Cousins and they produced 342 points. 

Do you expect the Jags offense under Gruden to more closely resemble a Haskins/Keenum season or a Cousins season in terms of points?  

(Bear in mind Minshew likely has better weapons at his disposal than Cousins had that year - and that 'skins o-line was ravaged by injury in 2017 and not good down the stretch.)

Did you watch our December games when we were outscored in the 1st half by the following:

Dec 1 - Bucs 25 - Jags 0
Dec 8 - Chargers 24 - Jags 3
Dec 15 - Raiders 16 - Jags 3
Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 
Dec 29 -  Colts 20 - Jags 16 

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half.  Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact).  Teams are on to Minshew.  All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.

What the hell does this have to do with Gruden's offense?  You know, the actual point of your bolded post. 

I haven't forgotten jack [BLEEP].  I'm also not stupid enough to pin all of those miserable offensive performances solely on Minshew's shoulders. Nor would I use those games to confirm some ill-formed bias against a Gruden offense designed for Gardner Minshew's strengths and weaknesses. 

You've connected zero dots here.

Jay Gruden is talking to the local media today. He says that he liked Gardner coming out of college and thinks he had the intangibles to be successful as a QB. He likes his competitive spirit. He also mentioned he would like to move WR's in the offense around on the field. Some of his quotes are being mentioned on Twitter by local media.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JaguarReport/...5137261577

He also talks about Jawaan Taylor and DJ chark. He talks about how talented DJ is and how he wants to use him. He says DJ is "hungry".

From Gruden's conference call today:

https://twitter.com/jpshadrick/status/12...12101?s=20

https://twitter.com/JohnReid64/status/12...25216?s=20

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Gruden also talked the importance of getting the offense off to faster starts so Minshew doesn't have to play from behind in the second half.

Talks about blocking and fullback type roles for backup TE's Charles Jones and newly drafted Tyler Davis.

https://twitter.com/JohnReid64/status/12...53473?s=20

I like Gruden as a OC but no way I want him as a HC

(05-26-2020, 12:54 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 12:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Did you watch our December games when we were outscored in the 1st half by the following:

Dec 1 - Bucs 25 - Jags 0 (Nick Foles started who gave up 3 TO on the first 3 drives. Hard to come back from that)
Dec 8 - Chargers 24 - Jags 3 (Defense couldn't get off the field to save the lives and let Chargers run the ball down their throats. How was this the offenses fault?)
Dec 15 - Raiders 16 - Jags 3 (This was definitely bad offensive play in the 1st half.)
Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 (Definitely poor offense. But the game basically started off 14-0 Falcons before the offense gets a play, hard to come back from that.)
Dec 29 -  Colts 20 - Jags 16 (No punts in the 1st half, so not sure why this is included. Still poor redzone offense, but that is it.)

OK, in 4 consecutive games Dec 1 - 22) , we scored a whopping 9 points in the 1st half.  Still not certain why Jags fans totally forget the pathetic 2nd half of the season when it comes to our pathetic offense (which is pretty much still in tact).  Teams are on to Minshew.  All it took was a little game film for them to identify his tendencies.

vs Chargers 

Jags drives
14 plays - 67 yards - FG
3 plays - 9 yards - Punt
6 plays - 16 yards - Punt
5 plays - 17 yards - Punt
3 plays - 7 yards - Punt

That's 17 Plays 49 Yards and 4 Punts after the initial drive.

OK -- those last 4 drives of the 1st half are very telling.  Not certain how the defense was responsible for the Jags not being able to get more than 1 first down per possession.

(05-26-2020, 12:54 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-26-2020, 12:14 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Dec 22 - Falcons 17 - Jags 3 (Definitely poor offense. But the game basically started off 14-0 Falcons before the offense gets a play, hard to come back from that.)

After being down 14-0  here's what we did

5 plays - 17 yards - Punt
3 plays - 2 yards - Punt
11 plays - 62 yards - FG
6 plays - 3 yards - Punt

4 possessions - 25 plays 84 yards - 1 FG and 3 Punts

Just terrible !!!

As you can see, we couldn't even gain 100 yards in the 1st half of a lot of those games.

For any of you that are buying this "Gruden's offense was bad in 2019, and Minshew struggled after the saints game, so the jags offense will suck in 2020"  nonsense:

Two QBs have had success in Gruden's system. Dalton and Cousins.

Dalton had seasons under Gruden that went 9-7, 10-6, and 11-5.
Cousins had three seasons that produced 4000+ yards and 25+ TDs under Gruden.

If you compare the rookie seasons of Dalton, Cousins and Minshew, then you'll find that Minshew performed better as a rookie with:

• higher completion percentage
  
• more touchdowns
  
• fewer interceptions
  
• better QBR
  
• higher adjusted YPA
  
• higher yards per game
  

I think a Gruden playbook tailored to suit Minshew will make for better offensive production than the Jags 2019 output regardless of any tape teams have on Minshew now.

(05-26-2020, 02:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/JohnReid64/status/12...93378?s=20

Why isn’t Taylor playing left tackle with this athleticism? He seems like a better athlete than Cam, who now has bum legs.

(05-26-2020, 01:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Gruden also talked the importance of getting the offense off to faster starts so Minshew doesn't have to play from behind in the second half.

Talks about blocking and fullback type roles for backup TE's Charles Jones and newly drafted Tyler Davis.

https://twitter.com/JohnReid64/status/12...53473?s=20

I liked what I read today from Gruden about what things he wants to do with this offense. Including how he wants to use DJ Chark. Another quote from him today from BigCatCountry's website about DJ and how he wants to use him:

Quote:He’s got a skill set with the size, speed to be able to come in and out of cuts. I think we could do a little bit more with him,” Gruden said when asked about Chark. “I’d like to get them inside a little bit, do some more things with him in the slot. But he’s an excellent specimen. And the thing that I have come to know about DJ in the limited time I got to meet him was that he’s hungry. He wants to be great and when you have the athletic qualities that he has and then the desire to be great, he’s going to have a very bright future.”

Also James O' Shaughnessy gave another interview where he says that his rehab is continuning along nicely and if the season starts on time, he will be ready to play. James also said he has some familiarity with the West Coast Offense from his time in Kansas City. Here he is talking about this in an interview he did recently with 1010 XL:

Quote:“I’m a big fan,” O’Shaughnessy said. “I’ve had a West Coast background earlier on in my NFL career when I was with Kansas City, so I have an idea of what the system can be. It’s a lot of different personal groupings, it’s going vertical and I can’t say enough about how happy I am to play in this system. Hearing from guys like Tyler Eifert and Chris Thompson, guys that have played in it, they talk about how much they have enjoyed it.

“You can feel the excitement in meetings and talking to guys about it because it’s a huge step for us as an offense to have him running the show.”

 He speaks highly of Gardner and is excited to get back to playing again. Good news for the Jags, and he did have nice chemistry with Minshew last year:

https://t.co/q4P6Xf74j2?amp=1

I also saw somewhere that the NFL may start letting coaches come back to facilities next week and that players may be able to return in some capacity starting June 15, for some minicamps. That could definitely help the Jags and other teams if that happened. I do think it's important for players to really start and get some practice time together. They need to start putting what they have been learning virtually into action.

https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/stat...8716574720