I hope this gets taken in the light hearted way intended.
You threw the tea in the Boston Harbor! You monsters!
America was also founded on revolution and positive change. The idea that a person, regardless of their color or religion or age, has the same opportunity as everyone else. And that became the American Dream and that is what made America the greatest country in the world.
And I'm from England. Stay safe friends.
Mikesez, the grifter. Just grifting along the grift. Not making any points, just strawmanning and claiming enlightenment. Grift on, you griftable bag of grift.
(06-07-2020, 12:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 09:55 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]1. No one is saying what you're suggesting. Even if you bring in the national guard, people can protest. Just don't loot anything, kill people. or burn stuff. It's not rocket science, and stop conflating the two. We aren't struggling with this concept. You are.
2. Agree.
3. This is a tired argument dragged out by the left to undermine American values. Yes. America's original sin was slavery. It was hotly contested at the time, and many people lamented the fact that they couldn't change it, while others saw it as a way of life. The price we paid came at a great cost. The traditions created a subculture of hate that fell out of favor in the 70's. What still exists are codified laws that infantilize blacks and treat them like they are less capable than whites, by a group of liberal elites that string them along for votes. So, yes. I agree that America still has racists. They just look like progressives.
1. You were struggling with this concept mere days ago. The right wing media made a clear play to discredit the protests based on rioting. And you and JJ were totally on board with that conflation.
2. Glad we agree
3. These are the kinds of messages, most recently and prominently put out by Koch-funded grifter Candace Owens, that white people amplify to justify their commitment to doing nothing and sacrificing nothing. I think it would be a noble cause to get more racial minority people on board with the Republican party. Tying racial identity so strongly to political identity is dangerous. So I'm all in favor of developing targeted messages to persuade at least some black people to change their allegiance, and then another message for each other minority group out there. But telling blacks that they are being "infantilized" and kept "on the plantation" is not that message. You have to establish that you understand why they vote that way now, that you accept it and even honor it, you just would like to point out a problem or two and you think they could be doing even better by voting with you. Just like any other form of persuasion. If 52% of blacks say that being black has hurt their prospects (and yes that's a real poll result from 2019), you're not going to change their mind with a wall of statistics or exhortations to grow up. You have to empathize with their feelings first.
Rasmussen daily tracking put trump's approval with black America at over 40% with black americans on friday
#whythisreallyhappened
U forgot prove your policies make their live better.
(06-07-2020, 05:35 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 12:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]1. You were struggling with this concept mere days ago. The right wing media made a clear play to discredit the protests based on rioting. And you and JJ were totally on board with that conflation.
2. Glad we agree
3. These are the kinds of messages, most recently and prominently put out by Koch-funded grifter Candace Owens, that white people amplify to justify their commitment to doing nothing and sacrificing nothing. I think it would be a noble cause to get more racial minority people on board with the Republican party. Tying racial identity so strongly to political identity is dangerous. So I'm all in favor of developing targeted messages to persuade at least some black people to change their allegiance, and then another message for each other minority group out there. But telling blacks that they are being "infantilized" and kept "on the plantation" is not that message. You have to establish that you understand why they vote that way now, that you accept it and even honor it, you just would like to point out a problem or two and you think they could be doing even better by voting with you. Just like any other form of persuasion. If 52% of blacks say that being black has hurt their prospects (and yes that's a real poll result from 2019), you're not going to change their mind with a wall of statistics or exhortations to grow up. You have to empathize with their feelings first.
Rasmussen daily tracking put trump's approval with black America at over 40% with black americans on friday
#whythisreallyhappened
U forgot prove your policies make their live better.
I'm not here to prove that policies that I generally don't agree with make people's lives better.
Even if 40% of black people approve of Donald Trump at this moment, Candace Owens said a whole lot more than "I approve of Donald Trump". She said she opposes George Floyd, which paints her as a true sociopath or an insincere grifter. I'm being generous when I assume that she's a grifter.
(06-07-2020, 05:38 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 05:35 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Rasmussen daily tracking put trump's approval with black America at over 40% with black americans on friday
#whythisreallyhappened
U forgot prove your policies make their live better.
I'm not here to prove that policies that I generally don't agree with make people's lives better.
Even if 40% of black people approve of Donald Trump at this moment, Candace Owens said a whole lot more than "I approve of Donald Trump". She said she opposes George Floyd, which paints her as a true sociopath or an insincere grifter. I'm being generous when I assume that she's a grifter.
Whether u agree or not is a u thing.
Mikesez the grifter mischaracterizes Candace Owens, too. Why bother responding to the points he didn't make.
(06-07-2020, 06:33 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Mikesez the grifter mischaracterizes Candace Owens, too. Why bother responding to the points he didn't make.
The title of the video is "Confession: I do NOT support George Floyd".
How did it get that title? Did she mischaracterize her own video?
So, she titles her video, "I do not support George Floyd," where she says she doesn't see him as a martyr for blacks. That's the context. You rephrase it "She opposes George Floyd." Not even remotely the same thing. Fundamentally changes her position. Why are you such a disingenuous person? Get better, grifter.
(06-07-2020, 07:24 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]So, she titles her video, "I do not support George Floyd," where she says she doesn't see him as a martyr for blacks. That's the context. You rephrase it "She opposes George Floyd." Not even remotely the same thing. Fundamentally changes her position. Why are you such a disingenuous person? Get better, grifter.
Okay. I see what you're saying. You're saying that she could be neutral towards George Floyd. Neither support nor oppose.
But in my experience, and in my reading of history, neutrality usually means you remain uninvolved and avoid provocative action towards either side.
If she sincerely "does not support", but also "does not oppose," she probably would have avoided making a video at all.
If she thinks we're making too big of a deal of George Floyd's death, or if she is skeptical of people who try to mix other issues that had nothing to do with his death into the discussion, she might have made a video with a calmer tone trying to deescalate this whole thing.
She opposes him though. That's why she made the provocative video, with the provocative title. That's why she filled up her video with factoids about his arrest record from 13 years ago, as if they matter.
(06-07-2020, 07:24 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]So, she titles her video, "I do not support George Floyd," where she says she doesn't see him as a martyr for blacks. That's the context. You rephrase it "She opposes George Floyd." Not even remotely the same thing. Fundamentally changes her position. Why are you such a disingenuous person? Get better, grifter.
In reality... He's not a martyr. It doesn't matter in the context of his killing, what happened to him was murder and should be punished as such. That said, as a person of faith I was disturbed at the level of idolatry and deification that surrounds someone who strong arm robbed and pistol whipped a pregnant woman. When he passed away he was high on fentanyl and meth amphetamines. If he was driving, then that means he was driving under the influence of an elicit substance and could have truly killed anyone at random. He's not a hero, he's not a martyr. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.
To perpetuate the idea of racial motivation, there is always a ploy by the left to glorify those who die @ the hands of police. In the case of Michael Brown, we heard for months "young man, about to start college that week." Then it turns out that he's on video strong arm robbing a store, assaulting the store clerk and he was the subject of the BOLO that Darren Wilson responded too. Then we find out that all the people who testified under oath about "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lied about it and had to be allowed to recant their testimony. Some of those who falsely testified to the Grand Jury flat out admitted they weren't even there when the shooting took place. Those people should have been charged for perjury.
In the case of Freddie Gray, you have a known drug dealer turned into a folk hero.
Ahmaud Aubrey, news outlets are still pushing this "out for a jog" narrative, when video clearly shows that he was fleeing a potential crime scene.
The media doesn't care if the country burns down. They are safe behind their locked doors and gated communities with their 8 figure salaries. Those of us who have to live in the world have to suffer the consequences of their ideology.
(06-07-2020, 07:55 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 07:24 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]So, she titles her video, "I do not support George Floyd," where she says she doesn't see him as a martyr for blacks. That's the context. You rephrase it "She opposes George Floyd." Not even remotely the same thing. Fundamentally changes her position. Why are you such a disingenuous person? Get better, grifter.
In reality... He's not a martyr. It doesn't matter in the context of his killing, what happened to him was murder and should be punished as such. That said, as a person of faith I was disturbed at the level of idolatry and deification that surrounds someone who strong arm robbed and pistol whipped a pregnant woman. When he passed away he was high on fentanyl and meth amphetamines. If he was driving, then that means he was driving under the influence of an elicit substance and could have truly killed anyone at random. He's not a hero, he's not a martyr. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.
To perpetuate the idea of racial motivation, there is always a ploy by the left to glorify those who die @ the hands of police. In the case of Michael Brown, we heard for months "young man, about to start college that week." Then it turns out that he's on video strong arm robbing a store, assaulting the store clerk and he was the subject of the BOLO that Darren Wilson responded too. Then we find out that all the people who testified under oath about "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lied about it and had to be allowed to recant their testimony. Some of those who falsely testified to the Grand Jury flat out admitted they weren't even there when the shooting took place. Those people should have been charged for perjury.
In the case of Freddie Gray, you have a known drug dealer turned into a folk hero.
Ahmaud Aubrey, news outlets are still pushing this "out for a jog" narrative, when video clearly shows that he was fleeing a potential crime scene.
The media doesn't care if the country burns down. They are safe behind their locked doors and gated communities with their 8 figure salaries. Those of us who have to live in the world have to suffer the consequences of their ideology.
Dude.. we don't know why there was fentanyl in his system. It may have been prescribed to him. Even if we knew for sure he was using it recreationally, it changes nothing. He should not be dead, not the way he died anyhow. You agree. But there are many others who also should not be dead. For me this is mainly about reforming the police, and making social work a separate task from policing. I think you agree with that too. The part you disagree about is adding it to the ongoing list of racial grievances out there. I do think it belongs on the list, and I think the list is still worth discussing. But can we just agree to disagree about that for now?
(06-07-2020, 07:49 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 07:24 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]So, she titles her video, "I do not support George Floyd," where she says she doesn't see him as a martyr for blacks. That's the context. You rephrase it "She opposes George Floyd." Not even remotely the same thing. Fundamentally changes her position. Why are you such a disingenuous person? Get better, grifter.
Okay. I see what you're saying. You're saying that she could be neutral towards George Floyd. Neither support nor oppose.
But in my experience, and in my reading of history, neutrality usually means you remain uninvolved and avoid provocative action towards either side.
If she sincerely "does not support", but also "does not oppose," she probably would have avoided making a video at all.
If she thinks we're making too big of a deal of George Floyd's death, or if she is skeptical of people who try to mix other issues that had nothing to do with his death into the discussion, she might have made a video with a calmer tone trying to deescalate this whole thing.
She opposes him though. That's why she made the provocative video, with the provocative title. That's why she filled up her video with factoids about his arrest record from 13 years ago, as if they matter.
Here's an idea. Watch the video. Or don't. But don't make a comment about it or her without first trying to understand her point. She was clear about her position on Floyd. He didn't deserve death. The cop should be punished. Floyd isn't a hero. He doesn't deserve to be memorialized and made a representative of the black community. That's her opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it wasn't poorly framed. Only an idiot could watch it come away with the gobbledygook your suggesting. Grifters gonna grift.
(06-07-2020, 08:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 07:55 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]In reality... He's not a martyr. It doesn't matter in the context of his killing, what happened to him was murder and should be punished as such. That said, as a person of faith I was disturbed at the level of idolatry and deification that surrounds someone who strong arm robbed and pistol whipped a pregnant woman. When he passed away he was high on fentanyl and meth amphetamines. If he was driving, then that means he was driving under the influence of an elicit substance and could have truly killed anyone at random. He's not a hero, he's not a martyr. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.
To perpetuate the idea of racial motivation, there is always a ploy by the left to glorify those who die @ the hands of police. In the case of Michael Brown, we heard for months "young man, about to start college that week." Then it turns out that he's on video strong arm robbing a store, assaulting the store clerk and he was the subject of the BOLO that Darren Wilson responded too. Then we find out that all the people who testified under oath about "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lied about it and had to be allowed to recant their testimony. Some of those who falsely testified to the Grand Jury flat out admitted they weren't even there when the shooting took place. Those people should have been charged for perjury.
In the case of Freddie Gray, you have a known drug dealer turned into a folk hero.
Ahmaud Aubrey, news outlets are still pushing this "out for a jog" narrative, when video clearly shows that he was fleeing a potential crime scene.
The media doesn't care if the country burns down. They are safe behind their locked doors and gated communities with their 8 figure salaries. Those of us who have to live in the world have to suffer the consequences of their ideology.
Dude.. we don't know why there was fentanyl in his system. It may have been prescribed to him. Even if we knew for sure he was using it recreationally, it changes nothing. He should not be dead, not the way he died anyhow. You agree. But there are many others who also should not be dead. For me this is mainly about reforming the police, and making social work a separate task from policing. I think you agree with that too. The part you disagree about is adding it to the ongoing list of racial grievances out there. I do think it belongs on the list, and I think the list is still worth discussing. But can we just agree to disagree about that for now?
Nah, I'm not in a merciful mood today. There have been too many studies done to disprove your opinion, even those conducted by left leaning organizations. In 2019 there were 9 shootings of unarmed black men by police and even within that subset, most were deemed justified. The rate of police shootings for black men is down 75% from the 60s while white shootings are flatlined. What list?
This idea that anything bad that happens is the result of some larger conspiracy or that there is a boogeyman in every closet for progressives to kill is folley. As for reforming the police? In the case we're all debating the Minn PD was already undergoing a reform lead by a new black chief of police appointed by a far left city council, under a far left mayor, under the supervision of a far left state attorney genearl and a far left Governor. What more REFORM.
This is the trick of the left, you leave them alone to run their own affairs, 60 years later-no utopia. What's the response? "Well if only we had 80 years and more money" we passed the income tax in 1918. We were promised this egalitarian society. Now we have 72 thousand pages of "fairness" and these people are still RANTING about income inequality. We collect racial data at the federal level for every person that signs a mortgage. The legal documentation is the size of a small book. The federal government through through the GSEs buys the vast majority of mortgage paper to repackage for the open market. And still, 45 years after the CRA was passed you have the former POTUS talking about redlining. You never hear that "housing policy" was the main area of his "community organizing." 700 billion of tarp, 800 billion of economic stimulus, trillions of dollars in quantative easing, FHA loans, VA loans, Dodd Frank, etc. What do we have to show for it? Their still crying about "housing inequality." my gosh.
I just want someone from the woke progressive left to explain to me, why is Japanese Puerto Rican income Gap greater than the White Black Gap? I'd like to know. Germany was bombed to the GROUND. Britain won two world wars. Why did Germany pass Britain as an economic power? Anyone? Please. I want to hear all the theories about German Privilige after being razed to the ground and becoming the skunk of the world.
There you go... asking those questions again. I bet after no one is able to answer them, you'll respond and 100% prove your point.
(06-07-2020, 07:55 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 07:24 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]So, she titles her video, "I do not support George Floyd," where she says she doesn't see him as a martyr for blacks. That's the context. You rephrase it "She opposes George Floyd." Not even remotely the same thing. Fundamentally changes her position. Why are you such a disingenuous person? Get better, grifter.
In reality... He's not a martyr. It doesn't matter in the context of his killing, what happened to him was murder and should be punished as such. That said, as a person of faith I was disturbed at the level of idolatry and deification that surrounds someone who strong arm robbed and pistol whipped a pregnant woman. When he passed away he was high on fentanyl and meth amphetamines. If he was driving, then that means he was driving under the influence of an elicit substance and could have truly killed anyone at random. He's not a hero, he's not a martyr. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.
To perpetuate the idea of racial motivation, there is always a ploy by the left to glorify those who die @ the hands of police. In the case of Michael Brown, we heard for months "young man, about to start college that week." Then it turns out that he's on video strong arm robbing a store, assaulting the store clerk and he was the subject of the BOLO that Darren Wilson responded too. Then we find out that all the people who testified under oath about "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lied about it and had to be allowed to recant their testimony. Some of those who falsely testified to the Grand Jury flat out admitted they weren't even there when the shooting took place. Those people should have been charged for perjury.
In the case of Freddie Gray, you have a known drug dealer turned into a folk hero.
Ahmaud Aubrey, news outlets are still pushing this "out for a jog" narrative, when video clearly shows that he was fleeing a potential crime scene.
The media doesn't care if the country burns down. They are safe behind their locked doors and gated communities with their 8 figure salaries. Those of us who have to live in the world have to suffer the consequences of their ideology.
I dare you to make this your next Facebook post.
In reality, you've got increasingly salty as this thread has progressed. Maybe you did receive a few more replies to your original FB post than you're letting on? Maybe, that post didn't go down so well? Maybe the influx of new long-winded JJ rants is a sign that you have decided you prefer your little Jags echo chamber over here? Or maybe you're just extra salty because you realize these prize contrarian ideas of yours are being rightly confined to the dustbin of history?
(06-07-2020, 11:48 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 07:55 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]In reality... He's not a martyr. It doesn't matter in the context of his killing, what happened to him was murder and should be punished as such. That said, as a person of faith I was disturbed at the level of idolatry and deification that surrounds someone who strong arm robbed and pistol whipped a pregnant woman. When he passed away he was high on fentanyl and meth amphetamines. If he was driving, then that means he was driving under the influence of an elicit substance and could have truly killed anyone at random. He's not a hero, he's not a martyr. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.
To perpetuate the idea of racial motivation, there is always a ploy by the left to glorify those who die @ the hands of police. In the case of Michael Brown, we heard for months "young man, about to start college that week." Then it turns out that he's on video strong arm robbing a store, assaulting the store clerk and he was the subject of the BOLO that Darren Wilson responded too. Then we find out that all the people who testified under oath about "Hands Up Don't Shoot" lied about it and had to be allowed to recant their testimony. Some of those who falsely testified to the Grand Jury flat out admitted they weren't even there when the shooting took place. Those people should have been charged for perjury.
In the case of Freddie Gray, you have a known drug dealer turned into a folk hero.
Ahmaud Aubrey, news outlets are still pushing this "out for a jog" narrative, when video clearly shows that he was fleeing a potential crime scene.
The media doesn't care if the country burns down. They are safe behind their locked doors and gated communities with their 8 figure salaries. Those of us who have to live in the world have to suffer the consequences of their ideology.
I dare you to make this your next Facebook post.
In reality, you've got increasingly salty as this thread has progressed. Maybe you did receive a few more replies to your original FB post than you're letting on? Maybe, that post didn't go down so well? Maybe the influx of new long-winded JJ rants is a sign that you have decided you prefer your little Jags echo chamber over here? Or maybe you're just extra salty because you realize these prize contrarian ideas of yours are being rightly confined to the dustbin of history?
Over weekends I'm posting from a laptop instead of my cell phone.