If it is in writing it speaks for itself and it's more difficult for others to make up lies about it. It protects the communication from being twisted out of content. If your supervisor gave you an illegal order to do something would you want it orally given to you or in writing? I would hope you would say in written form.
(08-30-2020, 12:02 AM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2020, 10:37 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] I think you missed the point. I think everyone believes that foreign governments meddle in our elections just as we do in theirs. The entire point of contention is whether Trump conspired with them.
Then respectfully I ask, what evidence do you have that Trump, did not conspire with them?
And great If you are saying they interfered, doesn’t it concern you at all that they, Russia our enemy, Putin the guy that kills journalists and poisons the opposition party, wants Trump to be our president?
I don't agree with that line of questioning. You cannot demand evidence to prove a negative. That's not just a rule of jurisprudence. Logic demands it.
2016 was the 5th US presidential election we had with Putin in charge of Russia. He didn't express an opinion about the first four. He chose to express an opinion in 2016. Westerners who have dealt with Putin consistently say that he believes in bizarre conspiracy theories, some of them of his own invention. He may have had a logical reason for coming down in favor of Trump, but he's done lots of other things in the past with no discernible logical reason. Now, there is reason to be suspicious, that Trump colluded, or offered Putin something in exchange for the support, but you can only be suspicious. You have to find evidence to prove it, before you can expect other people to believe it.
(08-30-2020, 09:11 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 12:02 AM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]Then respectfully I ask, what evidence do you have that Trump, did not conspire with them?
And great If you are saying they interfered, doesn’t it concern you at all that they, Russia our enemy, Putin the guy that kills journalists and poisons the opposition party, wants Trump to be our president?
I don't agree with that line of questioning. You cannot demand evidence to prove a negative. That's not just a rule of jurisprudence. Logic demands it.
2016 was the 5th US presidential election we had with Putin in charge of Russia. He didn't express an opinion about the first four. He chose to express an opinion in 2016. Westerners who have dealt with Putin consistently say that he believes in bizarre conspiracy theories, some of them of his own invention. He may have had a logical reason for coming down in favor of Trump, but he's done lots of other things in the past with no discernible logical reason. Now, there is reason to be suspicious, that Trump colluded, or offered Putin something in exchange for the support, but you can only be suspicious. You have to find evidence to prove it, before you can expect other people to believe it.
Putin has a big China problem sitting on his border and sees Trump as a willing ally in the battle against them. Be suspicious all you want, but even so 3 years, millions of dollars, dozens of hostile Democrats on Team Mueller and they came up with nothing.
(08-30-2020, 09:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 09:11 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't agree with that line of questioning. You cannot demand evidence to prove a negative. That's not just a rule of jurisprudence. Logic demands it.
2016 was the 5th US presidential election we had with Putin in charge of Russia. He didn't express an opinion about the first four. He chose to express an opinion in 2016. Westerners who have dealt with Putin consistently say that he believes in bizarre conspiracy theories, some of them of his own invention. He may have had a logical reason for coming down in favor of Trump, but he's done lots of other things in the past with no discernible logical reason. Now, there is reason to be suspicious, that Trump colluded, or offered Putin something in exchange for the support, but you can only be suspicious. You have to find evidence to prove it, before you can expect other people to believe it.
Putin has a big China problem sitting on his border and sees Trump as a willing ally in the battle against them. Be suspicious all you want, but even so 3 years, millions of dollars, dozens of hostile Democrats on Team Mueller and they came up with nothing.
I don't think there was collusion with Russia in 2016, but I do think Roger Stone tried to collude.
As I said, Putin is not always logical, so there doesn't need to be a logical explanation for him wanting Trump to beat Hillary. But, the most likely and most logical explanation, to me, is he saw Trump as a capricious and divisive person, who would weaken our country's resolve, set our citizens against each other, and leave us less prepared for crisis, should any crisis happen.
Whether Putin planned it that way or not, that's what's happened.
(08-30-2020, 10:13 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 09:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Putin has a big China problem sitting on his border and sees Trump as a willing ally in the battle against them. Be suspicious all you want, but even so 3 years, millions of dollars, dozens of hostile Democrats on Team Mueller and they came up with nothing.
I don't think there was collusion with Russia in 2016, but I do think Roger Stone tried to collude.
As I said, Putin is not always logical, so there doesn't need to be a logical explanation for him wanting Trump to beat Hillary. But, the most likely and most logical explanation, to me, is he saw Trump as a capricious and divisive person, who would weaken our country's resolve, set our citizens against each other, and leave us less prepared for crisis, should any crisis happen.
Whether Putin planned it that way or not, that's what's happened.
Of course you think that, you're wrong about most things.
Putin hated Clinton because she lied to him as secretary of state and overthrew his allies. You can look into it deeper than that if you want, but that's plenty of motive. We probably averted war by electing Trump.
(08-30-2020, 10:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Putin hated Clinton because she lied to him as secretary of state and overthrew his allies. You can look into it deeper than that if you want, but that's plenty of motive. We probably averted war by electing Trump.
Which of his allies? Kyrgyzstan?
Where do you think this new war would have played out in? We already have a proxy war between our forces in Afghanistan and their forces in Tajikistan. You're saying that would have gotten worse, or are you saying a new theater would have opened?
You guys do realize that Robert Mueller was republican leaning right?
I mean just 2 weeks ago the REPUBLICAN led intelligence committee
“
On Tuesday, the Republican-chaired Senate Intelligence Committee released a report with damning details of the extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence operatives.”
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/pres...sia-report
You know how much tax payer money we spent on trials for Hilarys email server Benghazi BS?!
And Ivanka has a private email server, and NONE of you say anything.
Where are the values the morals? If Obama once had said he’d grab women by the... or if he locked kids in cages, or if he did not act fast against corona, or if he used the WH as a backdrop for his election. I would’ve been the FIRST to say NO.
The hypocrisy among you guys is insane and maddening. I don’t believe you guys are bad people , or dumb people. I just wish you stuck to what you believe in. I’m an independent and never have i seen this kind of Republican Party before. It’s depressing
(08-29-2020, 09:20 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2020, 04:15 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA!!!!
Do you think Russia had nothing to do with meddling in the 2016 election, and the current election?
Not at all. However, I do believe that there was absolutely no collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. Collusion between Russia and the Hillary campaign? That appears to be more likely.
(08-30-2020, 01:37 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]You guys do realize that Robert Mueller was republican leaning right?
I mean just 2 weeks ago the REPUBLICAN led intelligence committee
“On Tuesday, the Republican-chaired Senate Intelligence Committee released a report with damning details of the extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence operatives.”
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/pres...sia-report
You know how much tax payer money we spent on trials for Hilarys email server Benghazi BS?!
And Ivanka has a private email server, and NONE of you say anything.
Where are the values the morals? If Obama once had said he’d grab women by the... or if he locked kids in cages, or if he did not act fast against corona, or if he used the WH as a backdrop for his election. I would’ve been the FIRST to say NO.
The hypocrisy among you guys is insane and maddening. I don’t believe you guys are bad people , or dumb people. I just wish you stuck to what you believe in. I’m an independent and never have i seen this kind of Republican Party before. It’s depressing
LOL. Another "progressive" claiming to be independent.
Regarding the first part in bold. How much tax payer money was wasted on the false "Russia collusion" investigation? How much tax payer money was wasted on a political
witch-hunt impeachment?
Regarding the second part in bold. Do you mean the "cages" that Oblah blah built to house illegal alien kids?
Finally the third part. Remember when President Trump shut down travel from China due to the China virus? What were all the names that he was being called?
It never ceases to amaze me how you leftists try to spin things.
(08-30-2020, 12:26 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 10:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Putin hated Clinton because she lied to him as secretary of state and overthrew his allies. You can look into it deeper than that if you want, but that's plenty of motive. We probably averted war by electing Trump.
Which of his allies? Kyrgyzstan?
Where do you think this new war would have played out in? We already have a proxy war between our forces in Afghanistan and their forces in Tajikistan. You're saying that would have gotten worse, or are you saying a new theater would have opened?
Clinton asked the UN to issue a no-fly zone in Libya. Putin objected, because he was concerned the US would use that to keep him from being able to aid Gaddafi. UN. However, even though he had veto power, he agreed because she promised the US wouldn't aid the rebels attacking Gaddafi. She lied, and did exactly what Putin feared. This pissed Putin off because Gaddafi an important trade partner with Russia. During Clinton's campaign for President, she kept pointing to her strategy in Libya and said that was how she was going to handle Syria, too. You can find Putin repeatedly warning that Russia would not tolerate interference in Syria. He said if she got elected, there was a good chance of open war between Russia and the US. He said he wouldn't be bullied, and said the US media was not informing the American public of this problem. He was actively threatening war. Was it a bluff? Maybe. Could it have been a proxy war? Possibly. Regardless, Putin was very clear he would declare war on the US if she would put a no-fly zone over Syria. You're good at googling... go find videos of Putin talking to American journalists about this.
(08-30-2020, 02:34 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-29-2020, 09:20 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think Russia had nothing to do with meddling in the 2016 election, and the current election?
Not at all. However, I do believe that there was absolutely no collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. Collusion between Russia and the Hillary campaign? That appears to be more likely.
(08-30-2020, 01:37 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]You guys do realize that Robert Mueller was republican leaning right?
I mean just 2 weeks ago the REPUBLICAN led intelligence committee
“On Tuesday, the Republican-chaired Senate Intelligence Committee released a report with damning details of the extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence operatives.”
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/pres...sia-report
You know how much tax payer money we spent on trials for Hilarys email server Benghazi BS?!
And Ivanka has a private email server, and NONE of you say anything.
Where are the values the morals? If Obama once had said he’d grab women by the... or if he locked kids in cages, or if he did not act fast against corona, or if he used the WH as a backdrop for his election. I would’ve been the FIRST to say NO.
The hypocrisy among you guys is insane and maddening. I don’t believe you guys are bad people , or dumb people. I just wish you stuck to what you believe in. I’m an independent and never have i seen this kind of Republican Party before. It’s depressing
LOL. Another "progressive" claiming to be independent.
Regarding the first part in bold. How much tax payer money was wasted on the false "Russia collusion" investigation? How much tax payer money was wasted on a political witch-hunt impeachment?
Regarding the second part in bold. Do you mean the "cages" that Oblah blah built to house illegal alien kids?
Finally the third part. Remember when President Trump shut down travel from China due to the China virus? What were all the names that he was being called?
It never ceases to amaze me how you leftists try to spin things.
THIS Is my problem and this is exactly why Trump is so dangerous. How easy your mind is being influenced by this man. You don’t deserve to have Spock on your avatar. Inclusivity , Objectivity, and Intelligence is the Vulcan way.
You’re attacking me without knowing
Me or who I am.
Once again, the Base is fine with anything.
(08-30-2020, 03:24 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 02:34 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not at all. However, I do believe that there was absolutely no collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. Collusion between Russia and the Hillary campaign? That appears to be more likely.
LOL. Another "progressive" claiming to be independent.
Regarding the first part in bold. How much tax payer money was wasted on the false "Russia collusion" investigation? How much tax payer money was wasted on a political witch-hunt impeachment?
Regarding the second part in bold. Do you mean the "cages" that Oblah blah built to house illegal alien kids?
Finally the third part. Remember when President Trump shut down travel from China due to the China virus? What were all the names that he was being called?
It never ceases to amaze me how you leftists try to spin things.
THIS Is my problem and this is exactly why Trump is so dangerous. How easy your mind is being influenced by this man. You don’t deserve to have Spock on your avatar. Inclusivity , Objectivity, and Intelligence is the Vulcan way.
You’re attacking me without knowing
Me or who I am.
Sorry I triggered you snowflake. I answered your questions, why not answer mine?
For the record, the imaginary "Vulcan way" is centered around logic.
(08-30-2020, 04:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 03:24 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]THIS Is my problem and this is exactly why Trump is so dangerous. How easy your mind is being influenced by this man. You don’t deserve to have Spock on your avatar. Inclusivity , Objectivity, and Intelligence is the Vulcan way.
You’re attacking me without knowing
Me or who I am.
Sorry I triggered you snowflake. I answered your questions, why not answer mine?
For the record, the imaginary "Vulcan way" is centered around logic.
Here let’s talk simple logic:
If Iran and China were helping Biden = Bad
If Russia helps Trump again = Bad
Any country (especially an enemy) interfering in our election = bad
I can’t make it any simpler for you.
(08-30-2020, 08:46 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 04:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry I triggered you snowflake. I answered your questions, why not answer mine?
For the record, the imaginary "Vulcan way" is centered around logic.
Here let’s talk simple logic:
If Iran and China were helping Biden = Bad
If Russia helps Trump again = Bad
Any country (especially an enemy) interfering in our election = bad
I can’t make it any simpler for you.
Russia helping Clinton = what happened.
I don't believe Putin was helping Clinton. I also think that there is a difference between trying to protect from interference in an election and actively working with another nation to gain an advantage in an election. The former has always happened, and the US should be vigilant in protecting herself. The latter is why there was an investigation into Trump. Nations have always tried to influence our elections. The sky isn't falling here. The biggest threat will come from systemic voting changes in many states and the activists that seek to exploit it. Truth be told, Russia just has to sit back and watch. I don't think this election will move their needle either way. China, on the other hand, really wants there to be an administrative change. They need it.
(08-30-2020, 08:58 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 08:46 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]Here let’s talk simple logic:
If Iran and China were helping Biden = Bad
If Russia helps Trump again = Bad
Any country (especially an enemy) interfering in our election = bad
I can’t make it any simpler for you.
Russia helping Clinton = what happened.
well this is pointless debating if you actually believe that.
Yikes you guys needed a white fat sexist failed business, racist, insecure man, to feel empowered and emboldened.
(08-30-2020, 09:21 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2020, 09:11 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't agree with that line of questioning. You cannot demand evidence to prove a negative. That's not just a rule of jurisprudence. Logic demands it.
2016 was the 5th US presidential election we had with Putin in charge of Russia. He didn't express an opinion about the first four. He chose to express an opinion in 2016. Westerners who have dealt with Putin consistently say that he believes in bizarre conspiracy theories, some of them of his own invention. He may have had a logical reason for coming down in favor of Trump, but he's done lots of other things in the past with no discernible logical reason. Now, there is reason to be suspicious, that Trump colluded, or offered Putin something in exchange for the support, but you can only be suspicious. You have to find evidence to prove it, before you can expect other people to believe it.
Putin has a big China problem sitting on his border and sees Trump as a willing ally in the battle against them. Be suspicious all you want, but even so 3 years, millions of dollars, dozens of hostile Democrats on Team Mueller and they came up with nothing.
You didn't read the report, did you?
Trump's ties to Russia goes back decades. Have you ever wondered why Michael Cohen was his lawyer? Nah, probably not. That might open your brain too much.
(08-30-2020, 09:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't believe Putin was helping Clinton. I also think that there is a difference between trying to protect from interference in an election and actively working with another nation to gain an advantage in an election. The former has always happened, and the US should be vigilant in protecting herself. The latter is why there was an investigation into Trump. Nations have always tried to influence our elections. The sky isn't falling here. The biggest threat will come from systemic voting changes in many states and the activists that seek to exploit it. Truth be told, Russia just has to sit back and watch. I don't think this election will move their needle either way. China, on the other hand, really wants there to be an administrative change. They need it.
Anyone who thinks Putin helped Clinton is either willfully ignorant, or just plain ignorant. Putin hates Hillary.