(09-08-2020, 01:22 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Many think Burrow will be all that and a bag of chips in the NFL. I see him as average. We'll find out soon enough.
I believe in him so much, I went out and bought three different rookie cards of his.
(09-08-2020, 12:40 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 12:29 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Or is it because he’s more mobile and makes throws only 3 QBs in this league can make? Murray’s ceiling is extremely high where as Minshews is Ryan Fitzpatrick (saw someone say this earlier and it’s spot on).
Some of you are really over inflating this team and it’s comical. They were ready to sign Clowney and trade him to Baltimore for a draft pick. They’re tanking and it’s looking like Caldwell will be back no matter what. You don’t make these moves without the assurance you’ll be back. There’s a reason the Jags are constantly mocked around the league and projected to pick 1st in 2021.
It's hard for me to say the guy who played better last year (Minshew) is worse. Sure Murray can make some throws others can't, that doesn't mean he's the better QB.
After this season we'll have a better idea, but right now Minshew is a more successful NFL QB.
Minshew was an extremely experienced college QB who had 140 more attempts in just his senior season than Murray had in his entire career. Murray also spent most of his life with baseball being the main focus. It shouldn't be shocking that Minshew would be better right out of the gate.
Minshew had a better rookie season by a hair. It would be insane to prefer him over Murray to lead your team going forward. But as I often say, fandom aka fanaticism is a hell of a drug.
(09-08-2020, 09:35 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 12:40 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard for me to say the guy who played better last year (Minshew) is worse. Sure Murray can make some throws others can't, that doesn't mean he's the better QB.
After this season we'll have a better idea, but right now Minshew is a more successful NFL QB.
Minshew was an extremely experienced college QB who had 140 more attempts in just his senior season than Murray had in his entire career. Murray also spent most of his life with baseball being the main focus. It shouldn't be shocking that Minshew would be better right out of the gate.
Minshew had a better rookie season by a hair. It would be insane to prefer him over Murray to lead your team going forward. But as I often say, fandom aka fanaticism is a hell of a drug.
I think this is the year that will tell the tale. Minshew has his back against the wall with imo an offense not quite as good as what Arizona has. I think Hopkins addition is huge for Murray. But if Minshew is able to match Murrays stats, i think it'll be quite an accomplishment and give Minshew a real opportunity to be argued as better or just as good as Murray.
2020:
Minshew showed he has an incredible ability to make plays off script and find open guys on-script if he's given an extra beat or two of pocket time.
2021:
We find out if Minshew can get the ball out accurately and on time after making 3 reads from the pocket consistently.
If he has to rely on unscripted rollouts too often he'll be exposed. Much will rely on Gruden's book and what he calls from it situationally - and the O-Line will obviously need to protect a bit better than the latter half of 2019 - but Gardner has to show he can make plays from the pocket consistently without extra time to do it.
I'm mildly optimistic, but I emphasize mildly.
I am mildly optimistic about Minshew, but not optimistic about our record this season. We have too many rookies who have not even played a preseason game. We also lack depth at certain positions, positions which are already weakened by offseason transactions, which means that any injuries would be devastating.
I can't forgive Brunell for how badly he screwed up in the 1999 AFC Championship game.
Okay, I know this comparison isn't likely, but nobody thought Tom Brady was a franchise QB either. He was said to only possess adequate arm strength and was a "beanpole." He was accurate and intelligent, which sounds familiar.
Minshew possesses similar traits and nobody will out work the guy. Maybe he is a franchise QB and maybe he isn't. I'm excited to find out.
(09-09-2020, 11:40 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, I know this comparison isn't likely, but nobody thought Tom Brady was a franchise QB either. He was said to only possess adequate arm strength and was a "beanpole." He was accurate and intelligent, which sounds familiar.
Minshew possesses similar traits and nobody will out work the guy. Maybe he is a franchise QB and maybe he isn't. I'm excited to find out.
Exactly. Of course Brady to Minshew comparisons aren't likely to go the same way. But everyone thinks you need someone with an outrageous physical trait. Mahomes' arm, Cam's mobility, Ben's height/size. At the end of the day, a QB who's intelligent and a hard worker can outperform the most physically gifted. Look at Josh Allen, he has an arm that's arguably as strong or stronger than Mahomes but he's super inaccurate.
Give me intelligence and accuracy over a specific physical trait any day.
This is not to say Minshew will become a HOF QB, it's to say his physical traits are more than adequate to be a very successful NFL QB.
(09-09-2020, 10:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I am mildly optimistic about Minshew, but not optimistic about our record this season. We have too many rookies who have not even played a preseason game. We also lack depth at certain positions, positions which are already weakened by offseason transactions, which means that any injuries would be devastating.
Cornerback has 4 rookies out of 6. Safeties are unproven. Pass rusher opposite Allen is unproven. Middle of the DLine is unproven. Then to top it off, they still have Wash.
I do like Minshew but he would need to take a giant step forward to keep the job next season. Unproven running backs, an OLine that didn’t change personel when they were bad and the TE room may be the weakest on the NFL.
This isn’t rocket science. A young roster with no offseason or preseason. Mixed with a bad HC and bad DC. Then add on top of that a franchise that has been the worst over the last 10 years....Clearly I’m not optimistic but I also think that means realistic. Most seasons I find a way to talk myself into getting excited but this one.... just can’t see it. I’ll still watch every game and hope they win but I just don’t see it.
(09-09-2020, 12:13 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2020, 11:40 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, I know this comparison isn't likely, but nobody thought Tom Brady was a franchise QB either. He was said to only possess adequate arm strength and was a "beanpole." He was accurate and intelligent, which sounds familiar.
Minshew possesses similar traits and nobody will out work the guy. Maybe he is a franchise QB and maybe he isn't. I'm excited to find out.
Exactly. Of course Brady to Minshew comparisons aren't likely to go the same way. But everyone thinks you need someone with an outrageous physical trait. Mahomes' arm, Cam's mobility, Ben's height/size. At the end of the day, a QB who's intelligent and a hard worker can outperform the most physically gifted. Look at Josh Allen, he has an arm that's arguably as strong or stronger than Mahomes but he's super inaccurate.
Give me intelligence and accuracy over a specific physical trait any day.
This is not to say Minshew will become a HOF QB, it's to say his physical traits are more than adequate to be a very successful NFL QB.
Indeed.
I've been saying it for a long time now. You can have a fast athletic running QB. Or a strong armed cannon thrower... but if they don't have what it takes to read defenses and lead men, their career will be short as a starting QB.
Time will tell if Minshew develops his ability to read the field and defenses at the NFL level. But if he can do it well, why can't he be like a Brady or a Brees or someone that doesn't have all the arm strength in the world or the wheels to run the QB option stuff?
Most of Manning's best work wasn't his throws it was the stuff he did before the ball was snapped.
Brees' best skill is being able to be super accurate, even though he often stands on his toes to see over his OL.
Brady's work ethic and determination to prove the doubters wrong drove him to be the QB he is today. Which he certainly wasn't his first couple seasons while leaning more on Belichick's defenses than Brady's QB play.
Qb is about so much more than arm strength and size, especially as the NFL evolves.
(09-09-2020, 12:18 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2020, 10:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I am mildly optimistic about Minshew, but not optimistic about our record this season. We have too many rookies who have not even played a preseason game. We also lack depth at certain positions, positions which are already weakened by offseason transactions, which means that any injuries would be devastating.
Cornerback has 4 rookies out of 6. Safeties are unproven. Pass rusher opposite Allen is unproven. Middle of the DLine is unproven. Then to top it off, they still have Wash.
I do like Minshew but he would need to take a giant step forward to keep the job next season. Unproven running backs, an OLine that didn’t change personel when they were bad and the TE room may be the weakest on the NFL.
This isn’t rocket science. A young roster with no offseason or preseason. Mixed with a bad HC and bad DC. Then add on top of that a franchise that has been the worst over the last 10 years....Clearly I’m not optimistic but I also think that means realistic. Most seasons I find a way to talk myself into getting excited but this one.... just can’t see it. I’ll still watch every game and hope they win but I just don’t see it.
Yeah the defense is going to be bad for the most part.
But the WRs are a strength, the TE room isn't worst in the league imo, though depth and injury history is certainly a concern there. Had the OL changed personnel you'd be talking about too many rookies or new people with not enough time to gel lol Either way I don't think the OL is/was as bad as many fans seem to believe. If you watch play break downs from last year many sacks or negative plays actually fell at the feet of our rookie QB. Unproven RBs is true but I think if the OL is good, the RBs will be fine.
But the biggest point is the one you make about Minshew. It rides on him taking that proverbial "next step" if he does that the offense should be fine and fun to watch. If he doesn't well it'll pretty much answer our questions about him being a franchise guy and we should land one of the top two QBs in the draft.
I'm personally excited about football. And I'm cautiously optimistic that our offense will improve with very little roster turnover from last season, when the offense was indeed fun to watch, sometimes. We may only win 5 or 6 games... 7 if we catch a break here or there... maybe we only win a few. But I suspect the games will be more fun to watch, as opposed to the crap show we got from London and beyond last season.
No teams had much of an off season or a preseason, so early on while things are undoubtedly sloppy we could catch some teams...
Admittedly, if we lose early and often, especially if we lose big... my excitement will certainly wane. But for now, I'm super excited to see what our offense will do and if our defense gets better as the season progresses and all the new faces get some experience.
(09-09-2020, 11:30 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I can't forgive Brunell for how badly he screwed up in the 1999 AFC Championship game.
I was there. It wasn't his fault.
For example, I was sitting in the South end zone and the Titans just shoved our two guards directly back into Brunell resulting in a safety. He had no chance. Plus, it wasn't his job to tackle Steve McNair.
(09-08-2020, 11:11 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 10:59 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]I would take Kyler all day over Gardner.
Why?
I feel like the ceiling of Kyler is just so much higher. Gardner is pretty close to a finished product while Kyler is just scratching the surface of his potential.
Ofcourse let me say... I would LOVE to be wrong and would LOVE for Gardner to be the best in the game, just an opinion. Go Jags!
(09-09-2020, 12:13 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Give me intelligence and accuracy over a specific physical trait any day.
This is not to say Minshew will become a HOF QB, it's to say his physical traits are more than adequate to be a very successful NFL QB.
/\/\/\ This! He's coming in knowing where he stands this year after being thrown in last year and he performed.
He will rise to the challenge ....
I think.that Gardner could be a franchise QB. I believe he is talented and very smart. I agree with those who value intellect as an important tool.for a player to.have.
Heck, to put that into perspective more there have definitely been examples of people who were first round picks who haven't fared that well due to things like struggling with grasping concepts of the game.
Recently Brian Flores said that while Josh Rosen had a better arm han Fitzpatrick and Tua, he was struggling with grasping various concepts and that is largely why the Dolphins let him go.
And first round pick Jordan Love has been relegated to the 3rd string QB on the depth chart for the Packers because the staff feel the #2 QB Tim Boyle (an undrafted player who many people have not heard of) is far ahead of him in development.
No matter where someone is drafted intelligence can carry them a long way. And Gardner has that. I'm looking forward to seeing him play this year. And hopefully proving a lot of people, including Brian Sexton, people who wants the team to tank for Trevor Lawrence, think that Kyler Murrary is much better than him, don't believe in him for various reasons, etc...wrong.
(09-09-2020, 11:30 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I can't forgive Brunell for how badly he screwed up in the 1999 AFC Championship game.
Wait a minute now. Our defense couldn’t stop a nose bleed that day. McNair killed us time and time again when he broke the pocket. Then our special teams gives up a kick off return TD.
We let the slowest TE in the league score a 50+ TD.
Brunell and Taylor marched right down the field on the first drive of the game and capped it off with a strike to Kyle Brady to get a 7-0 lead at home.
3rd and 1, at the goal line, Beasley couldn’t cover Thigpen and made a sloppy effort tackle. For some reason I felt like that was the turning point bc the Jags stuffed it down their throat from jump street but Tennessee answered right back.
Still in the 1st quarter it was 3rd and 10 and Brackens went for the strip instead of the sure sack which helped McNair get the first down.
2nd quarter the Jags drive all the way down to the goal line and Damon Jones dodged a ref on a crossing pattern but Brunell had already thrown the ball which allowed Roberson to pick it off in the end zone. The Jags hold and Stewart runs in a TD to give us a 14-10lead.
Kevin Hardy has a sure fire sack for a huge loss but McNair stiff armed him and completed a pass to George for another 1st down. It was like this the entire game until the bottom fell out.
Kyle Brady fumbled in a critical moment when we had the lead.
Searcy and Weigart got blown up and Brunell had to take a safety, as soon as we just recovered a Wychek fumble.
Lonnie Marts wiffed on McNair in the 4th quarter.
Brady fumbled again late in the 4th quarter.
Blain Bishop was in Brunell’s face on 2 critical plays which caused a sack or bad throw.
It was hardly on Brunell man. The defense killed us. And we played catch up most of the 2nd half. Taylor never got a chance to get in a groove.
(09-08-2020, 10:59 AM)IIn The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 09:03 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]I only watched Kyler play 1 game last year and he was pretty bad. Going to be interesting to see what these Oklahoma QBs can do in the NFL. Landry Jones, their all time leading passer totally sucks and Baker Mayfield is erratic.
I would take Kyler all day over Gardner.
You might regret that statement by the end of this year. Kyler Showed far less potential than Minshew last year
(09-12-2020, 07:04 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2020, 11:30 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I can't forgive Brunell for how badly he screwed up in the 1999 AFC Championship game.
Wait a minute now. Our defense couldn’t stop a nose bleed that day. McNair killed us time and time again when he broke the pocket. Then our special teams gives up a kick off return TD.
We let the slowest TE in the league score a 50+ TD.
Brunell and Taylor marched right down the field on the first drive of the game and capped it off with a strike to Kyle Brady to get a 7-0 lead at home.
3rd and 1, at the goal line, Beasley couldn’t cover Thigpen and made a sloppy effort tackle. For some reason I felt like that was the turning point bc the Jags stuffed it down their throat from jump street but Tennessee answered right back.
Still in the 1st quarter it was 3rd and 10 and Brackens went for the strip instead of the sure sack which helped McNair get the first down.
2nd quarter the Jags drive all the way down to the goal line and Damon Jones dodged a ref on a crossing pattern but Brunell had already thrown the ball which allowed Roberson to pick it off in the end zone. The Jags hold and Stewart runs in a TD to give us a 14-10lead.
Kevin Hardy has a sure fire sack for a huge loss but McNair stiff armed him and completed a pass to George for another 1st down. It was like this the entire game until the bottom fell out.
Kyle Brady fumbled in a critical moment when we had the lead.
Searcy and Weigart got blown up and Brunell had to take a safety, as soon as we just recovered a Wychek fumble.
Lonnie Marts wiffed on McNair in the 4th quarter.
Brady fumbled again late in the 4th quarter.
Blain Bishop was in Brunell’s face on 2 critical plays which caused a sack or bad throw.
It was hardly on Brunell man. The defense killed us. And we played catch up most of the 2nd half. Taylor never got a chance to get in a groove.
They scored 14 points.
Brunell was NEVER ever gonna steal Favre's job because Brunell was never in the same league as Favre.
Put Jimmy and McCardell with Manning they are both hall of famers
Also Keenan had a decent year with the Browns before coming to the Jags
Brunell had his moments but he wasn't a great QB, very good with some great moments? sure, but that's it.
(09-12-2020, 11:25 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Brunell had his moments but he wasn't a great QB, very good with some great moments? sure, but that's it.
That's a pretty good description. He was our best QB to date but he's not a HOFer and I personally didn't think he should have been put in The Pride. But the fact that he's been our best to date is more an indictment of how unsuccessful the team's been at replacing him then anything.
.gif "Laughing")