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(09-20-2020, 01:02 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 12:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I hear all of that, and this is why I usually find myself on the fence on this issue.
We have one party that recognizes that killing healthy babies in the wombs of healthy mothers is murder.
And we have another party that recognizes that we need to do more to provide for young mothers and help parents in general stay sane, so that children are well provided for and grow up without abuse.
I wish there was one party I could vote for that knew both of these
It’s a shame that most of these dudes are dudes. What right do you have to tell to another human being what they can and can’t do with their bodies? Not to mention the costs as one poster mentioned.
Republicans are masterminds at getting the public behind them.
Pro choice? How about Pro life
BLM? How about all lives matter
Free Medicare? How about that’s a death panel
It’s like nuance doesn’t exist for them, it’s just black and white
Lol, pathetic.
It's quite simple. You don't want a kid, then shut your legs. Then there are plenty of other things that lower the odds greatly and you can even get them for free. You have full control, but there are reactions to your choices.
People making grownup choices have to face grownup results/consequences. If you don't want or can't raise a kid, there are plenty of free options but people don't even want to do that.
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(09-20-2020, 01:02 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 12:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I hear all of that, and this is why I usually find myself on the fence on this issue.
We have one party that recognizes that killing healthy babies in the wombs of healthy mothers is murder.
And we have another party that recognizes that we need to do more to provide for young mothers and help parents in general stay sane, so that children are well provided for and grow up without abuse.
I wish there was one party I could vote for that knew both of these
It’s a shame that most of these dudes are dudes. What right do you have to tell to another human being what they can and can’t do with their bodies? Not to mention the costs as one poster mentioned.
Republicans are masterminds at getting the public behind them.
Pro choice? How about Pro life
BLM? How about all lives matter
Free Medicare? How about that’s a death panel
It’s like nuance doesn’t exist for them, it’s just black and white
Why is murder illegal?
(09-20-2020, 04:34 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It's quite simple. You don't want a kid, then shut your legs. Then there are plenty of other things that lower the odds greatly and you can even get them for free. You have full control, but there are reactions to your choices.
People making grownup choices have to face grownup results/consequences. If you don't want or can't raise a kid, there are plenty of free options but people don't even want to do that.
Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't say shutting your legs is the first thing to do.
The ego and the superego decide that they want babies, but the id is what goes about making them. And this is not just idle speculation on my part. Studies repeatedly show that abstinence only education actually results in more sexual activity, and with less precautions.
What I am in favor of is birth control. Anything that keeps the egg and sperm from coming together. Let people have their fun, but teach them what's available to manage fun times.
Obamacare is a flawed program on many levels, but the best thing it did, was reduce the number of abortions, by giving more girls of all income levels access to birth control.
(09-20-2020, 11:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 11:09 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Really? Are you willing to adopt any of the unwanted children that will be put into foster care if Roe vs. Wade is overturned? There will be a ton of them. We'll see a spike in child murder, child abuse, crime (as some of the kids growing up in foster care will feel unwanted and have no role models to teach them right from wrong.) Then you have to factor in the added cost of all these new people and the strain it will have on the already overcrowded foster care system. Taxpayers are gonna have to build new group homes to house these children, because there is already not enough foster families to take in the kids that there is now. There will also be more children born with handicaps and birth defects and that will put a bigger strain on the healthcare system, so prepare for your premiums and co-pay to go up. It's so hypocritical of people to just want something gone without coming up with solutions to the dire ramifications that action will create.
Well, as long as you can create an economic justification for murder then we should get to work on old people who cost way more than kids.
It's not murder. They aren't a person yet. Is cake batter considered a cake? Of course not. Is dough considered bread? No again.
(09-20-2020, 06:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 04:34 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It's quite simple. You don't want a kid, then shut your legs. Then there are plenty of other things that lower the odds greatly and you can even get them for free. You have full control, but there are reactions to your choices.
People making grownup choices have to face grownup results/consequences. If you don't want or can't raise a kid, there are plenty of free options but people don't even want to do that.
Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't say shutting your legs is the first thing to do.
The ego and the superego decide that they want babies, but the id is what goes about making them. And this is not just idle speculation on my part. Studies repeatedly show that abstinence only education actually results in more sexual activity, and with less precautions.
What I am in favor of is birth control. Anything that keeps the egg and sperm from coming together. Let people have their fun, but teach them what's available to manage fun times.
Obamacare is a flawed program on many levels, but the best thing it did, was reduce the number of abortions, by giving more girls of all income levels access to birth control.
I think bc is $4 @ walmart. This whole idea of "someone else must pay for it" is childish. Over half the black pregnancies in the city of NY end in abortion. Highest taxes, biggest welfare net, worst results.
Abortion isn't about wealth or poverty. Its about nihilism.
(09-20-2020, 04:34 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It's quite simple. You don't want a kid, then shut your legs. Then there are plenty of other things that lower the odds greatly and you can even get them for free. You have full control, but there are reactions to your choices.
People making grownup choices have to face grownup results/consequences. If you don't want or can't raise a kid, there are plenty of free options but people don't even want to do that.
Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
That may be the way things should be, but it's not the reality of the situation. Unfortunately, you cannot force people to be responsible human beings.
(09-20-2020, 06:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 11:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Well, as long as you can create an economic justification for murder then we should get to work on old people who cost way more than kids.
It's not murder. They aren't a person yet. Is cake batter considered a cake? Of course not. Is dough considered bread? No again.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself bud. That you have to compare human life to food with your absurd analogy spells out how immoral your position really is.
(09-20-2020, 06:16 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 04:34 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It's quite simple. You don't want a kid, then shut your legs. Then there are plenty of other things that lower the odds greatly and you can even get them for free. You have full control, but there are reactions to your choices.
People making grownup choices have to face grownup results/consequences. If you don't want or can't raise a kid, there are plenty of free options but people don't even want to do that.
Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
That may be the way things should be, but it's not the reality of the situation. Unfortunately, you cannot force people to be responsible human beings.
Interesting that you cannot force people to be responsible for their own actions but you force other people to pay for others irresponsible actions.
I would gladly give Dems free birth control and morning after pills, if they would give up abortion after 4 weeks with the exception to save the life of the mother.
(09-20-2020, 07:08 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I would gladly give Dems free birth control and morning after pills, if they would give up abortion after 4 weeks with the exception to save the life of the mother.
4 weeks? Many women don't know they're pregnant at 4 weeks.
(09-20-2020, 06:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 11:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Well, as long as you can create an economic justification for murder then we should get to work on old people who cost way more than kids.
It's not murder. They aren't a person yet. Is cake batter considered a cake? Of course not. Is dough considered bread? No again.
Cake batter will NEVER have human rights. Fully baked or in proto mix form.
Conversely, human rights are ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR. u don't get to set an arbitrary timetable.
(09-20-2020, 07:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 07:08 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I would gladly give Dems free birth control and morning after pills, if they would give up abortion after 4 weeks with the exception to save the life of the mother.
4 weeks? Many women don't know they're pregnant at 4 weeks.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you'll blow the plan
That's the point. Early for cases like rape or incest.
(09-20-2020, 07:08 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I would gladly give Dems free birth control and morning after pills, if they would give up abortion after 4 weeks with the exception to save the life of the mother.
I don't see it as a deal.
Both things reduce abortion. Birth control, and a stricter ban. One or the other or both are all good choices. It's like if the boss offers you a steak dinner, and you're saying "sure, but you have to throw in a lobster too or no deal."
(09-20-2020, 06:17 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 06:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It's not murder. They aren't a person yet. Is cake batter considered a cake? Of course not. Is dough considered bread? No again.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself bud. That you have to compare human life to food with your absurd analogy spells out how immoral your position really is.
It's not immoral at all. It's common sense. Some people don't have it. Are you willing to adopt some unwanted babies if this law gets overturned?
(09-20-2020, 06:58 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 06:16 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]That may be the way things should be, but it's not the reality of the situation. Unfortunately, you cannot force people to be responsible human beings.
Interesting that you cannot force people to be responsible for their own actions but you force other people to pay for others irresponsible actions.
I don't force anybody to do anything. I don't make rules. I have no power at all.
(09-20-2020, 07:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 07:08 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I would gladly give Dems free birth control and morning after pills, if they would give up abortion after 4 weeks with the exception to save the life of the mother.
4 weeks? Many women don't know they're pregnant at 4 weeks.
Agreed. That's extremely unrealistic. I could see after the first trimester, but 4 weeks is ridiculous.
(09-20-2020, 07:33 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 06:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It's not murder. They aren't a person yet. Is cake batter considered a cake? Of course not. Is dough considered bread? No again.
Cake batter will NEVER have human rights. Fully baked or in proto mix form.
Conversely, human rights are ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR. u don't get to set an arbitrary timetable.
You do know there is a separation of church and state. Many people like myself belief human rights don't apply, because it's not considered a human until it takes a breathe outside of the womb.
I just love how a bunch of men are arguing about this. /sarcasm
The government should never be involved in this decision. I don't support abortion except in some circumstances, but the government has no business forcing women to give birth to children they don't want. Period. If you've never given up a baby for adoption you have no idea- NO IDEA- what you're talking about when you say, "Oh, they can just put it up for adoption." BS. It's not that simple, especially for babies that aren't white.
And for you judgemental pricks; not every woman gets pregnant by consensual sex, BC is not 100% effective, and tell me the last time you lived a perfect life without mistakes. So shut up. You are the reason women needed RBG on the SC in the first place. I may not have agreed with her politics but she made sure women had a choice in a time we were still considered second class citizens.
This is all I'm saying on the subject so don't expect an argument.
(09-20-2020, 11:09 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 10:38 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]I have no doubt abortion is on the table, but let’s not equate ruling against baby murder as being akin to doing whatever they want with their bodies.
Really? Are you willing to adopt any of the unwanted children that will be put into foster care if Roe vs. Wade is overturned? There will be a ton of them. We'll see a spike in child murder, child abuse, crime (as some of the kids growing up in foster care will feel unwanted and have no role models to teach them right from wrong.) Then you have to factor in the added cost of all these new people and the strain it will have on the already overcrowded foster care system. Taxpayers are gonna have to build new group homes to house these children, because there is already not enough foster families to take in the kids that there is now. There will also be more children born with handicaps and birth defects and that will put a bigger strain on the healthcare system, so prepare for your premiums and co-pay to go up. It's so hypocritical of people to just want something gone without coming up with solutions to the dire ramifications that action will create.
That’s such a silly argument. Why am I responsible for directly caring for other people that choose not to care for the people they just birthed? That entire argument requires that, if you don’t want something to happen (pick anything), then you have to be responsible for everything that happens.
All those things you say will rise is based on conjecture. You don’t know that. If it’s OK to kill them before they’re born, why stop afterward? We could eliminate a lot of hungry kids if we compassionately euthanized all these poor children. I understand that you don’t believe them to be human yet, but the justification you gave is outside of that. You cited abuses, crimes, and suffering as justifiable reasons, and If those are good reasons to eliminate life then it shouldn’t matter when it’s eliminated.
(09-20-2020, 01:02 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2020, 12:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I hear all of that, and this is why I usually find myself on the fence on this issue.
We have one party that recognizes that killing healthy babies in the wombs of healthy mothers is murder.
And we have another party that recognizes that we need to do more to provide for young mothers and help parents in general stay sane, so that children are well provided for and grow up without abuse.
I wish there was one party I could vote for that knew both of these
It’s a shame that most of these dudes are dudes. What right do you have to tell to another human being what they can and can’t do with their bodies? Not to mention the costs as one poster mentioned.
Republicans are masterminds at getting the public behind them.
Pro choice? How about Pro life
BLM? How about all lives matter
Free Medicare? How about that’s a death panel
It’s like nuance doesn’t exist for them, it’s just black and white
Can we stop the men should stay in their lane argument? My mom and wife are way more passionate about being anti-abortion than I am.
Bottom line with this supreme court justice show down is that who ever wins will set the rules and if that happens, things are about to change. Nobody is respecting history and previouly respected on norms. It's all about power now for sure. Dems will retaliate when and if they get the senate and then eventually Republicans will fire back. The extremes win and the moderates suffer
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