(09-26-2020, 12:10 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 11:01 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]The constitution is almost 250 years old. If the founding fathers saw what the country had turned into, I'm pretty sure they'd want some changes made as well. The United States looks and runs nothing like it did when the constitution was written. It's become outdated in some areas.
Maybe or maybe not.
If there’s something so important to require an amendment, then it should be easy to get enough support to amend it. If the support doesn’t exist, then it shouldn’t be so easily changed. Support for random causes fluctuates all the time. What may be supported today may not be supported tomorrow, and if it’s an easy process to change it, you could find yourself on the wrong end of that change.
That already happened with the system we have.
Look at the 18th amendment and then look at the 21st.
It's kind of illogical, but we dealt with it, and we survived.
In my mind it's preferable to deal with a bit more topsy-turvy like that,
Than to witness the court make a decision that most people and most states disagree with,
And watch our political parties reorganize around upholding or overturning that decision,
And watch the "overturn" party get more and more judges,
And watch those judges say, "oops, sorry, Stare Decisis!"
(09-26-2020, 08:46 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 01:02 AM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]That’s qoute is one of the majors reasons I am glad RBG is gone. Her mindset is exactly what the founders of this country were trying to protect us from. She doesn’t want to live in a republic, just a simple democracy with autocrats.
I think you're misunderstanding. George Washington though we would be amending the constitution frequently. But we can't. The framers accidentally made it too hard to amend the Constitution. Yes, RBG and judges like her have been basically making stuff up with regard to what the Constitution says. They are "amending" it for us. Personally, I don't usually agree with how they chose to amend it, but that's not the point. As technology and society change it does need updates. If it was easier for We the People to update it, people like RBG would not have had the opportunity to do what they did.
So what is your source for your alternate reality?
(09-26-2020, 11:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 11:09 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Umm, that why we have that thing called the amendment process.
It's too hard to start and too hard to finish.
It should start automatically whenever the supreme Court strikes a law down.
Or it should start at regular intervals, maybe once every 10 years.
The founders thought that the state governments would petition the federal government to start the process. They wrote in article V, that if two thirds of the States ever signed on to such a petition, a process to amend would start. A time and a place for a convention would be set, and delegates would be sent from all states.
even though it's really hard to get 34 states to agree on something, it has actually happened! US Congress has received petitions from 34 different states, for a balanced budget amendment, and term limits. Yet the petitions were ignored and the convention never took place.
The amendment process simply doesn't work.
That is exactly how it should work. On top of that is another reason why senators should not be chosen directly by the vote of the people.
(09-26-2020, 03:12 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 08:46 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're misunderstanding. George Washington though we would be amending the constitution frequently. But we can't. The framers accidentally made it too hard to amend the Constitution. Yes, RBG and judges like her have been basically making stuff up with regard to what the Constitution says. They are "amending" it for us. Personally, I don't usually agree with how they chose to amend it, but that's not the point. As technology and society change it does need updates. If it was easier for We the People to update it, people like RBG would not have had the opportunity to do what they did.
So what is your source for your alternate reality?
The farewell address.
(09-26-2020, 03:15 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 11:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's too hard to start and too hard to finish.
It should start automatically whenever the supreme Court strikes a law down.
Or it should start at regular intervals, maybe once every 10 years.
The founders thought that the state governments would petition the federal government to start the process. They wrote in article V, that if two thirds of the States ever signed on to such a petition, a process to amend would start. A time and a place for a convention would be set, and delegates would be sent from all states.
even though it's really hard to get 34 states to agree on something, it has actually happened! US Congress has received petitions from 34 different states, for a balanced budget amendment, and term limits. Yet the petitions were ignored and the convention never took place.
The amendment process simply doesn't work.
That is exactly how it should work. On top of that is another reason why senators should not be chosen directly by the vote of the people.
I agree that having the people vote for senators directly really undermines how the constitution was supposed to work.
But the previous system was worse, especially because back then most state legislatures had situations where one guy's farm would get two state legislators, and the whole city of Atlanta would get three.
(09-26-2020, 03:44 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 03:12 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]So what is your source for your alternate reality?
The farewell address.
(09-26-2020, 03:15 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]That is exactly how it should work. On top of that is another reason why senators should not be chosen directly by the vote of the people.
I agree that having the people vote for senators directly really undermines how the constitution was supposed to work.
But the previous system was worse, especially because back then most state legislatures had situations where one guy's farm would get two state legislators, and the whole city of Atlanta would get three.
Frequently amending The Constitution? I don't think so.
The framers "accidentally" made it difficult? LOL.
.gif "Laughing")
As far as how states select their legislature, that's up to the states. An electoral college of sorts at the state level would fix that. Break it up into counties.
You would be surprised at just how red many states would be if it was done like that. New Mexico overall is a red state, but Albuquerque and Santa Fe pretty much decide which way the state goes. The same can be said about Colorado with Denver being the deciding factor. The same with Oregon, Washington State and dare I say it? California.
(09-26-2020, 04:10 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]As far as how states select their legislature, that's up to the states. An electoral college of sorts at the state level would fix that. Break it up into counties.
You would be surprised at just how red many states would be if it was done like that. New Mexico overall is a red state, but Albuquerque and Santa Fe pretty much decide which way the state goes. The same can be said about Colorado with Denver being the deciding factor. The same with Oregon, Washington State and dare I say it? California.
The whole point of representative government is to make sure that everyone who could potentially participate in a violent revolution [i.e., all adults] feels that they have a say.
When they feel like they already have a say, they don't listen to their local Che Guevara wannabe.
People in urban areas are in regular contact with a larger number of people than people in rural areas.
I think the voting system should treat them equally, but if you were going to favor one over the other, and you wanted to prevent violent revolution, you should favor the urban areas.
(09-26-2020, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 03:44 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The farewell address.
I agree that having the people vote for senators directly really undermines how the constitution was supposed to work.
But the previous system was worse, especially because back then most state legislatures had situations where one guy's farm would get two state legislators, and the whole city of Atlanta would get three.
Frequently amending The Constitution? I don't think so.
The framers "accidentally" made it difficult? LOL.
"If, in the opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. "
For my entire life, the opinion of the people has been that the distribution or modification of the Constitutional Powers is wrong.
George Washington felt that, if it ever came to this, it would be not just prudent but actually possible to amend the Constitution.
He might not have thought it would happen frequently, but he did think that we would be able to deal with it when it happened.
Yet it has been amended once in 50 years.
Washington and the other framers did not foresee how difficult it would be to get 50 states on the same page without any regular process for discussing amendments.
The founding fathers would summarily execute you cowardly liberals
(09-26-2020, 05:51 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]The founding fathers would summarily execute you cowardly liberals
Those guys? Each of them observed multiple viral epidemics in their lives (yellow fever and small pox mostly) and would quarantine people, block trade, and close public gathering places in response. Guess they were cowards too?
(09-26-2020, 06:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 05:51 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]The founding fathers would summarily execute you cowardly liberals
Those guys? Each of them observed multiple viral epidemics in their lives (yellow fever and small pox mostly) and would quarantine people, block trade, and close public gathering places in response. Guess they were cowards too?
Now which of those are related to the common cold? I'll frigging wait.
It's with us forever. Deal with it now.
(09-26-2020, 06:15 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Those guys? Each of them observed multiple viral epidemics in their lives (yellow fever and small pox mostly) and would quarantine people, block trade, and close public gathering places in response. Guess they were cowards too?
Now which of those are related to the common cold? I'll frigging wait.
It's with us forever. Deal with it now.
Smallpox was related to a mild disease known as cowpox.
But that's not relevant.
I mean, if you see me running from a lion, are you going to make fun of me and say, "what are you so scared of? it's related to a kitty cat after all!"
Put down the bottle and get help man sheesh.
(09-26-2020, 06:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:15 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Now which of those are related to the common cold? I'll frigging wait.
It's with us forever. Deal with it now.
Smallpox was related to a mild disease known as cowpox.
But that's not relevant.
I mean, if you see me running from a lion, are you going to make fun of me and say, "what are you so scared of? it's related to a kitty cat after all!"
Put down the bottle and get help man sheesh.
The point is running from this virus, or trying to hide from it, benefits no one. Your analogy is garbage.
It's not small pox. It's not the Black Plague.
It's a virus that literally will be with us forever. We need to build an immunity to it as a whole - not run away or pause life.
(09-26-2020, 06:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:15 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Now which of those are related to the common cold? I'll frigging wait.
It's with us forever. Deal with it now.
Smallpox was related to a mild disease known as cowpox.
But that's not relevant.
I mean, if you see me running from a lion, are you going to make fun of me and say, "what are you so scared of? it's related to a kitty cat after all!"
Put down the bottle and get help man sheesh.
TrivialPursuit is too far gone. He's been spending so much time in his parent's basement working on his conspiracy theories that his brain is mush.
(09-26-2020, 06:37 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Smallpox was related to a mild disease known as cowpox.
But that's not relevant.
I mean, if you see me running from a lion, are you going to make fun of me and say, "what are you so scared of? it's related to a kitty cat after all!"
Put down the bottle and get help man sheesh.
The point is running from this virus, or trying to hide from it, benefits no one. Your analogy is garbage.
It's not small pox. It's not the Black Plague.
It's a virus that literally will be with us forever. We need to build an immunity to it as a whole - not run away or pause life.
Somewhere between 5 and 10% of Americans have antibodies to the virus after about seven months of it being here. That's about 20 million people.
200,000 have died already.
About 1% of the people who have caught it, have died.
If you let the virus run through us until we have something like herd immunity, you're looking at at least a million, probably closer to 2 million, dead, and it would take about 3 to 5 years.
(09-26-2020, 06:47 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:37 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]The point is running from this virus, or trying to hide from it, benefits no one. Your analogy is garbage.
It's not small pox. It's not the Black Plague.
It's a virus that literally will be with us forever. We need to build an immunity to it as a whole - not run away or pause life.
Somewhere between 5 and 10% of Americans have antibodies to the virus after about seven months of it being here. That's about 20 million people.
200,000 have died already.
About 1% of the people who have caught it, have died.
If you let the virus run through us until we have something like herd immunity, you're looking at at least a million, probably closer to 2 million, dead, and it would take about 3 to 5 years.
And is that a bad thing?
200,000 of those our Planet has deemed too weak to live.
We need to think 50 years ahead.. not 2 months ahead.
200,000 is a fake number.
(09-26-2020, 06:50 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:47 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Somewhere between 5 and 10% of Americans have antibodies to the virus after about seven months of it being here. That's about 20 million people.
200,000 have died already.
About 1% of the people who have caught it, have died.
If you let the virus run through us until we have something like herd immunity, you're looking at at least a million, probably closer to 2 million, dead, and it would take about 3 to 5 years.
And is that a bad thing?
200,000 of those our Planet has deemed too weak to live.
We need to think 50 years ahead.. not 2 months ahead.
Your views would make Hitler proud.
(09-26-2020, 07:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]200,000 is a fake number.
Who told you that, Trump?
(09-26-2020, 08:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:50 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]And is that a bad thing?
200,000 of those our Planet has deemed too weak to live.
We need to think 50 years ahead.. not 2 months ahead.
Your views would make Hitler proud.
(09-26-2020, 07:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]200,000 is a fake number.
Who told you that, Trump?
Lol, your TDS might be the most aggressive I've ever encountered. Of course if you die from it you can rest assured that Covid will get the credit.
(09-26-2020, 08:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:50 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]And is that a bad thing?
200,000 of those our Planet has deemed too weak to live.
We need to think 50 years ahead.. not 2 months ahead.
Your views would make Hitler proud.
Hey coward, if you want to say that to my face, PM me. My entire family lived through the crap that ensued after the Nazis. I know it better than you could ever dream. You're a piece of [BLEEP]
(09-26-2020, 06:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 06:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Smallpox was related to a mild disease known as cowpox.
But that's not relevant.
I mean, if you see me running from a lion, are you going to make fun of me and say, "what are you so scared of? it's related to a kitty cat after all!"
Put down the bottle and get help man sheesh.
TrivialPursuit is too far gone. He's been spending so much time in his parent's basement working on his conspiracy theories that his brain is mush.
You're a coward.