(10-06-2020, 04:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 03:46 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know Donald Trump personally, so I can only go by what I see and know.
Would I want my kids to be like him? Not really. I raised them to be their own person and they are. Each of the three are distinctly different from one another and I'm proud of each one of them.
Do I think that Donald Trump is a bad person? No, absolutely not. I think that he means well and does his best for our country. I think that he really cares about the American people and does his best for all of us.
Do I like the way that he presents himself? Not always. Many times he's like the "bull in a china shop". He is what he is. Sometimes I do wish that he would keep his mouth shut.
Now with politics considered.
Was he my first choice back in 2016? Not at all. I was more of a Rubio or Cruz person with honorable mentions to Carly Fiorina, Herman Cain and Ben Carson (in no particular order). Trump didn't get my vote in the primary and in the general election he got my vote because he "wasn't Hillary". I had no faith or trust in him.
However, I have seen what he has done over the last 3+ years and I like what I have seen. The economy was doing well prior to the China virus, troops were coming home, he kept us out of wars and stood up to China. He did this while under constant attack from the left from the very beginning. Through the whole RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA!!! crap and the non-existent collusion accusations, a sham impeachment, etc. he always did what was right for ALL Americans. The allegation of him being racist or homophobic just are not true and I've seen no evidence to the contrary.
So to answer your question, yes I think that Donald Trump is a good person and he has my vote for 4 more years.
I am glad to hear you let you're kids grow up to be their own people. I think you misinterpret certain actions of his as being "caring" when in my opinion, he does things just to prop up his own ego, but as long as you don't condone all of his actions like many others do, that is a good thing.
As for the politics part, you didn't even have to include that. I realize that the majority of people in the United States tend to swing conservative. I'm fine with that. I swing very conservative on certain issues as well. Just not everything. I can see why people would vote for him based solely on that. My issues with him in this thread are based only on him as a human being.
When President Trump went after China and stood up to them regarding trade, was that to prop up his ego or was it because he cared about the American People?
What about the
executive orders that he has declared? Are each of those to prop up his ego, or are they to benefit the country?
(10-06-2020, 04:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 04:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I am glad to hear you let you're kids grow up to be their own people. I think you misinterpret certain actions of his as being "caring" when in my opinion, he does things just to prop up his own ego, but as long as you don't condone all of his actions like many others do, that is a good thing.
As for the politics part, you didn't even have to include that. I realize that the majority of people in the United States tend to swing conservative. I'm fine with that. I swing very conservative on certain issues as well. Just not everything. I can see why people would vote for him based solely on that. My issues with him in this thread are based only on him as a human being.
When President Trump went after China and stood up to them regarding trade, was that to prop up his ego or was it because he cared about the American People?
What about the executive orders that he has declared? Are each of those to prop up his ego, or are they to benefit the country?
I honestly don't think he takes into account any feelings of the American people or how it effects them. I think he sees everything as a business deal and his ultimate goal is to get the better of the other party. As long as he thinks he outmaneuvered China, he's happy. It's a feather in his cap. I don't think he even considers how the deal works out for average Americans.
As far as executive orders, I think it's all about winning public support. I truly believe he'd sign anything if it won him some "brownie points" with voters. It's all about making himself look good. I believe this 100%, because I really believe the man lacks empathy. For him it's all about winning. Nothing else matters. It's about how many executive orders he can sign, how many trade deals he can "one up" China on and how many Obama things he can tear down. He likes bragging about the amount of things he does and he believes these things will win him voters. He just likes the numbers. Numbers in his favor, make him giddy.
(10-06-2020, 04:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 04:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]When President Trump went after China and stood up to them regarding trade, was that to prop up his ego or was it because he cared about the American People?
What about the executive orders that he has declared? Are each of those to prop up his ego, or are they to benefit the country?
I honestly don't think he takes into account any feelings of the American people or how it effects them. I think he sees everything as a business deal and his ultimate goal is to get the better of the other party. As long as he thinks he outmaneuvered China, he's happy. It's a feather in his cap. I don't think he even considers how the deal works out for average Americans.
As far as executive orders, I think it's all about winning public support. I truly believe he'd sign anything if it won him some "brownie points" with voters. It's all about making himself look good. I believe this 100%, because I really believe the man lacks empathy. For him it's all about winning. Nothing else matters. It's about how many executive orders he can sign, how many trade deals he can "one up" China on and how many Obama things he can tear down. He likes bragging about the amount of things he does and he believes these things will win him voters. He just likes the numbers. Numbers in his favor, make him giddy.
I don't want you to take this as a personal attack on you, but your point of view is very sad. It's a reflection of what this country has become, especially those on the far left (not saying you are).
The China trade deal might have been a "feather in his cap" and was in fact a business deal, but why did he do it? You and many others think that it's all about him when it really was all about us. Our country has been getting screwed by China for many years and he stood up to it. Nobody has stood up to them for the last couple of decades, yet he did.
Take the time and read the executive orders that he has done. It's always been about and for the people. Take your blinders off that tell you that "it's all about winning public support" or "brownie points". Look at each one and ask yourself if it's good for the American people or not.
As I said before, he wasn't my first choice but he is exactly what this country needed.
(10-06-2020, 05:38 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 04:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly don't think he takes into account any feelings of the American people or how it effects them. I think he sees everything as a business deal and his ultimate goal is to get the better of the other party. As long as he thinks he outmaneuvered China, he's happy. It's a feather in his cap. I don't think he even considers how the deal works out for average Americans.
As far as executive orders, I think it's all about winning public support. I truly believe he'd sign anything if it won him some "brownie points" with voters. It's all about making himself look good. I believe this 100%, because I really believe the man lacks empathy. For him it's all about winning. Nothing else matters. It's about how many executive orders he can sign, how many trade deals he can "one up" China on and how many Obama things he can tear down. He likes bragging about the amount of things he does and he believes these things will win him voters. He just likes the numbers. Numbers in his favor, make him giddy.
I don't want you to take this as a personal attack on you, but your point of view is very sad. It's a reflection of what this country has become, especially those on the far left (not saying you are).
The China trade deal might have been a "feather in his cap" and was in fact a business deal, but why did he do it? You and many others think that it's all about him when it really was all about us. Our country has been getting screwed by China for many years and he stood up to it. Nobody has stood up to them for the last couple of decades, yet he did.
Take the time and read the executive orders that he has done. It's always been about and for the people. Take your blinders off that tell you that "it's all about winning public support" or "brownie points". Look at each one and ask yourself if it's good for the American people or not.
As I said before, he wasn't my first choice but he is exactly what this country needed.
He did it because he likes to win "deals". He knew he could get something better and it would be something else he could brag about. Nothing more, nothing less. I feel sorry for people who actually believe Trump cares about them. So naive. That man only cares about himself.
Whether or not those orders benefit the American people, I guarantee that is not his motive for doing them. Dude, he doesn't care about you or me or any other person on this Earth. He may tolerate some people more than others, but I genuinely believe in my heart and soul, that he does it to gain the approval of others, in the form of votes to keep him in power.
I really never thought this way before about any other president, but I've been following Trump a long time. Way before he was president. This is how he has always been and a leopard never changes their spots. He's always been about the money, the attention and the power. That's what he was taught from his father and it shaped him as a person. It's all about winning and grinding your opponent into dust. He looks at each deal that way. Before he was president, he was even a Democrat, but he knew as a rich, white man the nation was probably only going to back him as a radical Republican. He knew there was a base of people he could lead around like the pied piper, so he switched parties and like everything else he does, he kept winning. He needs the approval of his base. He needs the adoration and he needs the votes and by doing what he does, he's been getting them.
He's such a lovely man it really has shone through all his life.
He doesn't just like being President for his ego/brand.
Personally I don't think he has any political ideology, he would probably have ran as a democrat if he saw an opportunity. He's smart marketer though, he saw the opportunity to target these disgruntled uneducated people and shouted some slogans at them and got them fired up and on side. Now he probably enjoys having his loyal fans although wouldn't want to shake their grubby hands.
Mostly Trump realized that the Democrats went too far left and the Establishment Republicans were just his kind of left-center moderates, so he joined the party. Then the common plebes of America, the people both leftists and E-Pubs despise, rallied to him drawing the ire of both. And then he upset the coronation of Queen Shrillary and prevented the 1,000 Years of Darkness and all Hell broke loose.
(10-06-2020, 04:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 03:46 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know Donald Trump personally, so I can only go by what I see and know.
Would I want my kids to be like him? Not really. I raised them to be their own person and they are. Each of the three are distinctly different from one another and I'm proud of each one of them.
Do I think that Donald Trump is a bad person? No, absolutely not. I think that he means well and does his best for our country. I think that he really cares about the American people and does his best for all of us.
Do I like the way that he presents himself? Not always. Many times he's like the "bull in a china shop". He is what he is. Sometimes I do wish that he would keep his mouth shut.
Now with politics considered.
Was he my first choice back in 2016? Not at all. I was more of a Rubio or Cruz person with honorable mentions to Carly Fiorina, Herman Cain and Ben Carson (in no particular order). Trump didn't get my vote in the primary and in the general election he got my vote because he "wasn't Hillary". I had no faith or trust in him.
However, I have seen what he has done over the last 3+ years and I like what I have seen. The economy was doing well prior to the China virus, troops were coming home, he kept us out of wars and stood up to China. He did this while under constant attack from the left from the very beginning. Through the whole RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA!!! crap and the non-existent collusion accusations, a sham impeachment, etc. he always did what was right for ALL Americans. The allegation of him being racist or homophobic just are not true and I've seen no evidence to the contrary.
So to answer your question, yes I think that Donald Trump is a good person and he has my vote for 4 more years.
I am glad to hear you let you're kids grow up to be their own people. I think you misinterpret certain actions of his as being "caring" when in my opinion, he does things just to prop up his own ego, but as long as you don't condone all of his actions like many others do, that is a good thing.
As for the politics part, you didn't even have to include that. I realize that the majority of people in the United States tend to swing conservative. I'm fine with that. I swing very conservative on certain issues as well. Just not everything. I can see why people would vote for him based solely on that. My issues with him in this thread are based only on him as a human being.
I don't vote for any politician based on how I feel about them personally, I vote based on their policies and voting record. I don't need to like any of them, I just need them to do their job. As a person I am not fond of Trump, but for what he's managed to get done for the country while constantly under a barrage of hate and discontent is pretty impressive.
(10-06-2020, 11:55 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 04:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I am glad to hear you let you're kids grow up to be their own people. I think you misinterpret certain actions of his as being "caring" when in my opinion, he does things just to prop up his own ego, but as long as you don't condone all of his actions like many others do, that is a good thing.
As for the politics part, you didn't even have to include that. I realize that the majority of people in the United States tend to swing conservative. I'm fine with that. I swing very conservative on certain issues as well. Just not everything. I can see why people would vote for him based solely on that. My issues with him in this thread are based only on him as a human being.
I don't vote for any politician based on how I feel about them personally, I vote based on their policies and voting record. I don't need to like any of them, I just need them to do their job. As a person I am not fond of Trump, but for what he's managed to get done for the country while constantly under a barrage of hate and discontent is pretty impressive.
You're certainly entitled to that opinion. A lot of people think like you do and as I said, that's fine as long as you teach your children that what Trump does, is not how a civilized human being should act. I'm just the type of person that I just need to have an inkling of respect for someone I am voting for and I just can't do it with Trump. It's not in my nature.That's why I had to go 3rd party.
I think you're too wrapped up in the narcissist bit. Trump is definitely a narcissist, but i believe that works in our favor to the degree he identifies as an American. It is perfectly within the scope of a narcissistic personality to want to have the best house in the neighborhood. Trump wants to have the best country in the world, and I don't doubt his motivations to make it that way, even if it's just because he sees America as an extension of himself.
(10-06-2020, 08:30 PM)lastonealive Wrote: [ -> ]He's such a lovely man it really has shone through all his life.
He doesn't just like being President for his ego/brand.
Personally I don't think he has any political ideology, he would probably have ran as a democrat if he saw an opportunity. He's smart marketer though, he saw the opportunity to target these disgruntled uneducated people and shouted some slogans at them and got them fired up and on side. Now he probably enjoys having his loyal fans although wouldn't want to shake their grubby hands.
Buuuwwaaaaa!!! Thoughts from Australia's most irritating invasive species, " The Pommy".
.gif "Laughing")
Actually quite funny compared to the usual.
You have an unhealthy obsession with nationality however. Must be that indoctrination from educators.
(10-07-2020, 12:38 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2020, 11:55 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't vote for any politician based on how I feel about them personally, I vote based on their policies and voting record. I don't need to like any of them, I just need them to do their job. As a person I am not fond of Trump, but for what he's managed to get done for the country while constantly under a barrage of hate and discontent is pretty impressive.
You're certainly entitled to that opinion. A lot of people think like you do and as I said, that's fine as long as you teach your children that what Trump does, is not how a civilized human being should act. I'm just the type of person that I just need to have an inkling of respect for someone I am voting for and I just can't do it with Trump. It's not in my nature.That's why I had to go 3rd party.
Being as I'm not raising kids that's not an issue.
As for respect, I used to feel as you did, but at my age I've come to realize people are jacked up. Everyone is. Some are just better at managing it. Trump may be a hard pill to swallow but at least you know what you get with him even if you don't like it. I'll take that any day over someone who is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I've lived too much to be okay with people who are fake.
I vote Libertarian when I have the option, when I don't I look to whose policies reflect what I feel is important for the country.
(10-08-2020, 12:17 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 12:38 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]You're certainly entitled to that opinion. A lot of people think like you do and as I said, that's fine as long as you teach your children that what Trump does, is not how a civilized human being should act. I'm just the type of person that I just need to have an inkling of respect for someone I am voting for and I just can't do it with Trump. It's not in my nature.That's why I had to go 3rd party.
Being as I'm not raising kids that's not an issue.
As for respect, I used to feel as you did, but at my age I've come to realize people are jacked up. Everyone is. Some are just better at managing it. Trump may be a hard pill to swallow but at least you know what you get with him even if you don't like it. I'll take that any day over someone who is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I've lived too much to be okay with people who are fake.
I vote Libertarian when I have the option, when I don't I look to whose policies reflect what I feel is important for the country.
Thank God I have that option this year or else I probably wouldn't vote. My beliefs are all over the map, so there's hardly ever a candidate that I can agree with on 60% of things, because the Democrats and Republicans take such hard line stances on everything. Some things I'm Conservative, some things I'm Liberal and on most things, I'm very moderate. Neither party seems to like voters like myself. They want all or nothing. That's why 3rd parties like the Libertarians are so appealing to me. They seem to have elements of both parties.
(10-08-2020, 12:26 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2020, 12:17 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Being as I'm not raising kids that's not an issue.
As for respect, I used to feel as you did, but at my age I've come to realize people are jacked up. Everyone is. Some are just better at managing it. Trump may be a hard pill to swallow but at least you know what you get with him even if you don't like it. I'll take that any day over someone who is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I've lived too much to be okay with people who are fake.
I vote Libertarian when I have the option, when I don't I look to whose policies reflect what I feel is important for the country.
Thank God I have that option this year or else I probably wouldn't vote. My beliefs are all over the map, so there's hardly ever a candidate that I can agree with on 60% of things, because the Democrats and Republicans take such hard line stances on everything. Some things I'm Conservative, some things I'm Liberal and on most things, I'm very moderate. Neither party seems to like voters like myself. They want all or nothing. That's why 3rd parties like the Libertarians are so appealing to me. They seem to have elements of both parties.
.
Libertarianism is simple, small government, self governed communities, more individual freedoms. They align more with the right than anything, but neither the Republican nor the Democratic party seem eager to vote themselves less privileges.
That being said, it's more apt to say that the "Libertarian Party" is no more immune to corruption than any other political identity, and as such is flawed in some serious ways. Help is not on the way for the moderate voter.
As someone who considers themselves a Moderate and a Libertarian at heart, Trump offers the best choice. It's sad to admit, but it's true. The other choices aren't even real alternatives. The DNC really screwed the pooch trying to shove their establishment candidates down the American Public's throat. I'm not sure what their play is, but they must be desperate if they're running a Senile Old man who may or may not diddle children/women.
(10-08-2020, 01:24 AM)Minshew Mania Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2020, 12:26 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Thank God I have that option this year or else I probably wouldn't vote. My beliefs are all over the map, so there's hardly ever a candidate that I can agree with on 60% of things, because the Democrats and Republicans take such hard line stances on everything. Some things I'm Conservative, some things I'm Liberal and on most things, I'm very moderate. Neither party seems to like voters like myself. They want all or nothing. That's why 3rd parties like the Libertarians are so appealing to me. They seem to have elements of both parties.
.
Libertarianism is simple, small government, self governed communities, more individual freedoms. They align more with the right than anything, but neither the Republican nor the Democratic party seem eager to vote themselves less privileges.
That being said, it's more apt to say that the "Libertarian Party" is no more immune to corruption than any other political identity, and as such is flawed in some serious ways. Help is not on the way for the moderate voter.
As someone who considers themselves a Moderate and a Libertarian at heart, Trump offers the best choice. It's sad to admit, but it's true. The other choices aren't even real alternatives. The DNC really screwed the pooch trying to shove their establishment candidates down the American Public's throat. I'm not sure what their play is, but they must be desperate if they're running a Senile Old man who may or may not diddle children/women.
Not for me. Neither Trump or Biden are real choices for me. I liken it to this, if I go to a fancy restaurant and they keep trying to serve me crap, I'm gonna keep sending it back until I get something edible. Right now, Americans are being served crap, from Republicans and Democrats and we shouldn't be expected to take it.
(10-08-2020, 08:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2020, 01:24 AM)Minshew Mania Wrote: [ -> ].
Libertarianism is simple, small government, self governed communities, more individual freedoms. They align more with the right than anything, but neither the Republican nor the Democratic party seem eager to vote themselves less privileges.
That being said, it's more apt to say that the "Libertarian Party" is no more immune to corruption than any other political identity, and as such is flawed in some serious ways. Help is not on the way for the moderate voter.
As someone who considers themselves a Moderate and a Libertarian at heart, Trump offers the best choice. It's sad to admit, but it's true. The other choices aren't even real alternatives. The DNC really screwed the pooch trying to shove their establishment candidates down the American Public's throat. I'm not sure what their play is, but they must be desperate if they're running a Senile Old man who may or may not diddle children/women.
Not for me. Neither Trump or Biden are real choices for me. I liken it to this, if I go to a fancy restaurant and they keep trying to serve me crap, I'm gonna keep sending it back until I get something edible. Right now, Americans are being served crap, from Republicans and Democrats and we shouldn't be expected to take it.
Yeah and I'd be tempted to vote for Jorgensen, if she wasn't a sham of a Libertarian. It's a shame really.
(10-08-2020, 10:06 AM)Minshew Mania Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2020, 08:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Not for me. Neither Trump or Biden are real choices for me. I liken it to this, if I go to a fancy restaurant and they keep trying to serve me crap, I'm gonna keep sending it back until I get something edible. Right now, Americans are being served crap, from Republicans and Democrats and we shouldn't be expected to take it.
Yeah and I'd be tempted to vote for Jorgensen, if she wasn't a sham of a Libertarian. It's a shame really.
I don't care about political labels. I don't really identify with any party, which is why I'm a registered Independent. I just know that when reading her agenda it lined up way more like my own, than any of the major candidates.
If I had my way, we'd get rid of political parties all together and have everyone run as Independents. No more "gang mentality" on either side and no pressuring people to vote certain ways on issues. I think if you are caught doing that, it should be automatic time in state prison. No less than 5 years per violation. Leave everyone alone to vote the way they actually feel without the pressure of party lines. This will never happen, because we are "too far gone" as a country, but it's nice to imagine.
(10-08-2020, 02:27 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-08-2020, 10:06 AM)Minshew Mania Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah and I'd be tempted to vote for Jorgensen, if she wasn't a sham of a Libertarian. It's a shame really.
I don't care about political labels. I don't really identify with any party, which is why I'm a registered Independent. I just know that when reading her agenda it lined up way more like my own, than any of the major candidates.
If I had my way, we'd get rid of political parties all together and have everyone run as Independents. No more "gang mentality" on either side and no pressuring people to vote certain ways on issues. I think if you are caught doing that, it should be automatic time in state prison. No less than 5 years per violation. Leave everyone alone to vote the way they actually feel without the pressure of party lines. This will never happen, because we are "too far gone" as a country, but it's nice to imagine.
I'd go for that, but I think the biggest issue with our political system is ingrained lobbyism. Too many bills and legislation is passed that directly benefit big corporations and harm the general consumer base. It's why Bernie had my attention, albeit ever so briefly, because he's one of the first Politicians I've heard bring up the subject. Funnily enough he got bought out by his own party and swindled his base for money, twice.
Money talks in this country, and influences the majority of our decisions. The Presidential race is nothing but a charade, typically Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. Trump at least is not wanted by the establishment, although he has plenty of stains on his record as far as appealing to Big Corp. Goes. He in particular disappointed me greatly on the whole Net Neutrality deal by appointing someone with major conflicts of interest to lead up the whole thing, which had grave consequences for the American public that most of the older generation either doesn't understand or doesn't relate to. It hasn't reared it's ugly head quite yet, at least not in major metropolitan areas, but it's bound to, eventually.
All that said, Trump still represents the best candidate out of the available options for the American public. Jorgensen's campaign plan is all well in good, but based on some of her actions I'm not entirely sure of it's authenticity, nevermind the fact she doesn't have an inkling of a chance of winning.
It's a sad state we're in right now. And I think Biden's supporters are playing fast and loose with our Constitutional republic. People say they're scared of this imaginary Boogeyman in Trump, but Biden being in the Oval Office gravely concerns me for the future of this country.