I think that if Mahomes were on the Jaguars he would have more wins than Minshew. However, if everything else minus the QB was the same (Same coaching staff, same defense), I'm not sure that it would be a lot more wins. I think that it might a situation like Justin Herbert/the Chargers. Where you have a very talented QB, but he can only do so much because of things like coaching staff, isn't making the best decisions and the team can't manage to win. In the case of the Chargers it's blowing big leads. I don't know how much Patrick could elevate this team if the defense is constantly giving up 30 points a game.
On the flip side if Gardner were on the Chiefs, I think that Andy Reid would get the best out of him. At the very least they are going to the playoffs and maybe on a deep playoff run if Gardner was up there with Andy Reid as his coach (and also healthy), and everything else with the team was the same.
Mahomes in Jacksonville = Donovan McNabb
The Chiefs would be 8-8 with Minshew, and the Jags would be 8-8 with Mahomes. That is how big a difference there is between Mahomes and Minshew; you are looking at the best young QB in the game and a League MVP versus a decent back up. Minshew is not even close to what Alex Smith was.
I suspect Minshew on that Chiefs team would look like Alex Smith on that Chiefs team(record wise).
Mahomes maybe wills the team to 4-5 wins in Jacksonville.
Where I would really like to see Minshew is New Orleans.
(11-02-2020, 10:08 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect Minshew on that Chiefs team would look like Alex Smith on that Chiefs team(record wise).
Mahomes maybe wills the team to 4-5 wins in Jacksonville.
Where I would really like to see Minshew is New Orleans.
You underestimate both how good Mahomes is and how below average Minshew is. It was a nice story for the first two games this year, but its over. He's not a starter.
The Seahawks are legitimate SB contenders with Russell Wilson and a roster that is no better than ours around him. The only other difference is that they have a superior coaching staff. I’d say this Jaguars team with Mahomes would be a playoff team, probably AFC South champions. I think Minshew probably subtracts 4-5 wins from the Chiefs, so they go from SB favorites to a team fighting for a playoff spot.
(11-02-2020, 10:50 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2020, 10:08 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect Minshew on that Chiefs team would look like Alex Smith on that Chiefs team(record wise).
Mahomes maybe wills the team to 4-5 wins in Jacksonville.
Where I would really like to see Minshew is New Orleans.
You underestimate both how good Mahomes is and how below average Minshew is. It was a nice story for the first two games this year, but its over. He's not a starter.
This
Minshew's arm is too weak for Tyreek Hill's speed.
This is a players v. plays argument for sure.
I think Reid is savvy enough to hide Minshew's warts, and the team around him is plenty solid to expect a run in the playoffs, maybe even lucky enough to get to a SB (heck Bort almost accomplished this feat!). The offense slows a little, I don't see the Shew throwing for 400 yards a game consistently, but once in a while he'll torch a D. If the switch happened and there was no binding requirement to start him, I could see KC addressing QB in a darft or by FA after a season or two.
Mahomes would tilt the field, but just like with GM15, the defense causes the QB to have to win by shootout instead of grinding out a win. Not having Kelce to throw to makes him appear more pedestrian, but he alone would likely give us enough to sniff playoffs most years. Most importantly, though, we'd stop having to swing for the fences in the darft, and could start building around him. That would be the most significant impact he could have, at least until he demands a trade back to KC.
The comparison is ridiculous because you can't just say if player A was swapped with player B. If they had drafted Mahomes it would have affected subsequent drafts and subsequent FA acquisitions. This would be a very different looking roster.
(11-03-2020, 09:54 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]The comparison is ridiculous because you can't just say if player A was swapped with player B. If they had drafted Mahomes it would have affected subsequent drafts and subsequent FA acquisitions. This would be a very different looking roster.
And chances are this coaching staff would of ruined Mahomes....
(11-02-2020, 10:50 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2020, 10:08 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect Minshew on that Chiefs team would look like Alex Smith on that Chiefs team(record wise).
Mahomes maybe wills the team to 4-5 wins in Jacksonville.
Where I would really like to see Minshew is New Orleans.
You underestimate both how good Mahomes is and how below average Minshew is. It was a nice story for the first two games this year, but its over. He's not a starter.
It’s funny because you’re a person who counts wins as a QB stat. It’s not. Is Mahomes great? Absolutely. With this line, this coaching staff, this defense, he isn’t winning 8 games. Mahomes also got to sit behind Alex Smith, under Andy Reid for a year. He also has a great scheme, great coaching staff and great talent around him. Sammy Watkins at receiver is equal to the Jags #1, Chark.
Minshew was thrown into starting 11 plays into his rookie season as a 6th round pick. He has already had 2 offensive coordinators. The weapons are nowhere near what Jags fans want to say they are. The line is a joke in pass blocking. Both offensive tackles are very bad especially.
I really wish that the Jags would use all of those picks to build around Minshew. I know without a winning streak to end the season, that won’t even be a chance. I hope Minshew is traded to a better organization in the offseason. I hope the Jags are able to build with all of their picks because it’s good for the league but they robbed Minshew of any chance to compete this season. Mahomes would not have succeeded in Jacksonville either.
I’ve said a million times, Minshew is a Tony Romo. He’s smart but not as physically gifted. He is going to have to work harder than others to succeed. He’s also going to need some help.
Mahomes is no doubt a generational player. He’s a Favre and a Manning rolled together. But it’s not all about him in KC.
Better question is how do the teams look if we'd hired Reid and the Chefs hired Bobblehead. It's clear that the downfall of Caldwell has been the selection of coaches who dont know how to contribute to draft selection, coach up talented youngsters, and scheme to be effective on game day.
(11-04-2020, 08:47 AM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2020, 10:50 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]You underestimate both how good Mahomes is and how below average Minshew is. It was a nice story for the first two games this year, but its over. He's not a starter.
It’s funny because you’re a person who counts wins as a QB stat. It’s not. Is Mahomes great? Absolutely. With this line, this coaching staff, this defense, he isn’t winning 8 games. Mahomes also got to sit behind Alex Smith, under Andy Reid for a year. He also has a great scheme, great coaching staff and great talent around him. Sammy Watkins at receiver is equal to the Jags #1, Chark.
Mahomes could absolutely win 8 games on this team. He makes plays outside the X's and O's. Has more wheels than Minshew. The OL protection hasn't been that bad, Minshew just holds the ball too long and doesn't hit open receivers.
Also Chark>Watkins
The entire team would be better.
We still wouldn't be very good.
(11-04-2020, 08:47 AM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2020, 10:50 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]You underestimate both how good Mahomes is and how below average Minshew is. It was a nice story for the first two games this year, but its over. He's not a starter.
It’s funny because you’re a person who counts wins as a QB stat. It’s not. Is Mahomes great? Absolutely. With this line, this coaching staff, this defense, he isn’t winning 8 games. Mahomes also got to sit behind Alex Smith, under Andy Reid for a year. He also has a great scheme, great coaching staff and great talent around him. Sammy Watkins at receiver is equal to the Jags #1, Chark.
Minshew was thrown into starting 11 plays into his rookie season as a 6th round pick. He has already had 2 offensive coordinators. The weapons are nowhere near what Jags fans want to say they are. The line is a joke in pass blocking. Both offensive tackles are very bad especially.
I really wish that the Jags would use all of those picks to build around Minshew. I know without a winning streak to end the season, that won’t even be a chance. I hope Minshew is traded to a better organization in the offseason. I hope the Jags are able to build with all of their picks because it’s good for the league but they robbed Minshew of any chance to compete this season. Mahomes would not have succeeded in Jacksonville either.
I’ve said a million times, Minshew is a Tony Romo. He’s smart but not as physically gifted. He is going to have to work harder than others to succeed. He’s also going to need some help.
Mahomes is no doubt a generational player. He’s a Favre and a Manning rolled together. But it’s not all about him in KC.
??? What are you talking about?!?! Tony Romo had a WAY better arm than Minshew and was much more athletic. Not even in the same ball park, dude. Romo was an above average starter in the League; Minshew is going to be a career back up.
Everyone has an opinion.
I still stand by my take. If Minshew were put on the Chiefs they would still be Super Bowl Contenders. The Jags could have Joe Montana in his prime and it would not matter. Caldwell really has built a pile of crap here along with his coaching Staff. What I am saying is Minshew is really in a bad Situation here. Chark is the only Deep threat while the support cast is a Joke. A mediocre line, The Worst tight end group in the league, an undrafted rookie RB, and there isn't a #2 wr on this team is what Minshew is working with.
(11-04-2020, 07:20 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2020, 08:47 AM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s funny because you’re a person who counts wins as a QB stat. It’s not. Is Mahomes great? Absolutely. With this line, this coaching staff, this defense, he isn’t winning 8 games. Mahomes also got to sit behind Alex Smith, under Andy Reid for a year. He also has a great scheme, great coaching staff and great talent around him. Sammy Watkins at receiver is equal to the Jags #1, Chark.
Minshew was thrown into starting 11 plays into his rookie season as a 6th round pick. He has already had 2 offensive coordinators. The weapons are nowhere near what Jags fans want to say they are. The line is a joke in pass blocking. Both offensive tackles are very bad especially.
I really wish that the Jags would use all of those picks to build around Minshew. I know without a winning streak to end the season, that won’t even be a chance. I hope Minshew is traded to a better organization in the offseason. I hope the Jags are able to build with all of their picks because it’s good for the league but they robbed Minshew of any chance to compete this season. Mahomes would not have succeeded in Jacksonville either.
I’ve said a million times, Minshew is a Tony Romo. He’s smart but not as physically gifted. He is going to have to work harder than others to succeed. He’s also going to need some help.
Mahomes is no doubt a generational player. He’s a Favre and a Manning rolled together. But it’s not all about him in KC.
??? What are you talking about?!?! Tony Romo had a WAY better arm than Minshew and was much more athletic. Not even in the same ball park, dude. Romo was an above average starter in the League; Minshew is going to be a career back up.
Tony Romo had a solid NFL arm, not a stellar one. Minshew is more athletic than Romo though. Romo learned to manipulate the pocket. Romo did not even get invited to the combine, he was an undrafted free agent who didn’t see the field until year 3. The guy just worked his tail off studying film and working on mechanics until he made his way into being a consistent top 5-10 QB in the league.
I think Minshew can be that same guy IF he puts in the work. For a second year QB on an awful team, with his second offensive coordinator already, he’s doing pretty well. He absolutely has things to work on.
I understand the notion of someone thinks the next Andrew Luck is sitting there, you have to take him... but what if it’s the next Daniel Jones? What if it’s the next Gabbert? The next Christian Ponder? The next Trubisky? Those first round guys miss a lot more often than they hit. There are very few Mahomes, Rodgers, Lucks out there. There are a lot more of those other guys. How has Watson looked with a bad team this season?
In my opinion, if it’s not a sure fire thing, you have a guy who is showing a lot of potential and can grow like Wilson did, like Romo did. You just need to put pieces around him and let him grow. Lawrence is the only close to sure fire thing in the draft. You make your play to get him and if you can’t do it, build around Minshew, IMO.
Troy Aikman went 1-15 his first season(he didn’t even win the 1 game, he was out). You think they are happy they didn’t move on? Different situation, I know but same point.
(11-05-2020, 08:29 AM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2020, 07:20 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]??? What are you talking about?!?! Tony Romo had a WAY better arm than Minshew and was much more athletic. Not even in the same ball park, dude. Romo was an above average starter in the League; Minshew is going to be a career back up.
Tony Romo had a solid NFL arm, not a stellar one. Minshew is more athletic than Romo though. Romo learned to manipulate the pocket. Romo did not even get invited to the combine, he was an undrafted free agent who didn’t see the field until year 3. The guy just worked his tail off studying film and working on mechanics until he made his way into being a consistent top 5-10 QB in the league.
I think Minshew can be that same guy IF he puts in the work. For a second year QB on an awful team, with his second offensive coordinator already, he’s doing pretty well. He absolutely has things to work on.
I understand the notion of someone thinks the next Andrew Luck is sitting there, you have to take him... but what if it’s the next Daniel Jones? What if it’s the next Gabbert? The next Christian Ponder? The next Trubisky? Those first round guys miss a lot more often than they hit. There are very few Mahomes, Rodgers, Lucks out there. There are a lot more of those other guys. How has Watson looked with a bad team this season?
In my opinion, if it’s not a sure fire thing, you have a guy who is showing a lot of potential and can grow like Wilson did, like Romo did. You just need to put pieces around him and let him grow. Lawrence is the only close to sure fire thing in the draft. You make your play to get him and if you can’t do it, build around Minshew, IMO.
Troy Aikman went 1-15 his first season(he didn’t even win the 1 game, he was out). You think they are happy they didn’t move on? Different situation, I know but same point.
Absolutely not. Romo was a better athlete with a better arm. Minshew came out of college more polished than Romo but with a lower ceiling. Your take here is way off. Minshew is a likeable guy and an interesting story, but he is a career back up at best.
(11-04-2020, 07:35 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has an opinion.
I still stand by my take. If Minshew were put on the Chiefs they would still be Super Bowl Contenders. The Jags could have Joe Montana in his prime and it would not matter. Caldwell really has built a pile of crap here along with his coaching Staff. What I am saying is Minshew is really in a bad Situation here. Chark is the only Deep threat while the support cast is a Joke. A mediocre line, The Worst tight end group in the league, an undrafted rookie RB, and there isn't a #2 wr on this team is what Minshew is working with.
No chance. He would make everyone on that team appreciably worse; Mahomes would make everyone here better. Anyone that thinks Minshew is going to win a Super Bowl as a starter, that he just needs more talent around him, is delusional. Quarterback is a bigger problem on this offense than any other position at this point (with the exception of Tight End). On a League level, Minshew's play is ranked around #25 in QBR and Passer Rating. I'd say that's about right, maybe he should be even a little lower. Our O-Line play is average (better in the run game than pass, but that is partly Minshew's fault for holding the ball too long). Our receivers are below average but ranked higher than #25. We have a solid running back. The problem is our quarterback play. When we get a better one, we will produce much more.
Our defense stinks too. But we are talking about QB play here. Minshew is a problem.
(11-05-2020, 10:16 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2020, 07:35 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has an opinion.
I still stand by my take. If Minshew were put on the Chiefs they would still be Super Bowl Contenders. The Jags could have Joe Montana in his prime and it would not matter. Caldwell really has built a pile of crap here along with his coaching Staff. What I am saying is Minshew is really in a bad Situation here. Chark is the only Deep threat while the support cast is a Joke. A mediocre line, The Worst tight end group in the league, an undrafted rookie RB, and there isn't a #2 wr on this team is what Minshew is working with.
No chance. He would make everyone on that team appreciably worse; Mahomes would make everyone here better. Anyone that thinks Minshew is going to win a Super Bowl as a starter, that he just needs more talent around him, is delusional. Quarterback is a bigger problem on this offense than any other position at this point (with the exception of Tight End). On a League level, Minshew's play is ranked around #25 in QBR and Passer Rating. I'd say that's about right, maybe he should be even a little lower. Our O-Line play is average (better in the run game than pass, but that is partly Minshew's fault for holding the ball too long). Our receivers are below average but ranked higher than #25. We have a solid running back. The problem is our quarterback play. When we get a better one, we will produce much more.
Our defense stinks too. But we are talking about QB play here. Minshew is a problem.
People are insane. Maybe on a stacked team Minshew has a good year and that team probably gets to the playoffs. But this idea that our offense is completely terrible top to bottom is just so false. The OL has played much better this year and over half the sacks given up are on Minshew. Chark, Cole, Viska, and Conley are a solid if not very good group of WRs. TE is lacking but always has been. Robinson is a steal of an udfa (and some of his success can also be contributed to the OL).
The biggest weaknesses on this offense outside of the QB are TE and situational play calling (Gruden/Marrone).
People can call for Caldwell's head all they want and rightfully so at this point I suppose. But it isn't because of the offensive roster, imo. Minshew just hasn't been getting it done. Maybe with the Chiefs he performs better simply because of a Kelce and a WR group and stable of backs that are better than ours... but to say that he leads them to a Superbowl win when it took Mahomes a helluva magical comeback last year vs a very very good 9ers D is comical.