Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Seems like Chaisson was an outside linebacker at LSU. Do you see him as a defensive end of an OLB? I think we have the personnel for a 3-4 scheme but how does that effect Josh Allen, Myles Jack, or K’Lavon Chaisson?

(12-26-2020, 12:12 AM)Black and Teal Wrote: [ -> ]Seems like Chaisson was an outside linebacker at LSU. Do you see him as a defensive end of an OLB? I think we have the personnel for a 3-4 scheme but how does that effect Josh Allen, Myles Jack, or K’Lavon Chaisson?

Yes they are all better fits for a 3-4.

Any Defensive Coach with a brain would know to switch our defense to a 34.

Wade Phillips maybe?

It's a great question, but it's an illustration of why the rebuilding process starts with a GM who not only knows how to select the best talent, but also has a plan for how the build the roster in a way that fits an overall scheme.  And then he has to select a coach who is on the same page.  You don't just pick the best players; you pick players that fit the blueprint that is laid out by the coach and GM.  

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here.  

But it all starts with the GM.  We can banter around all we want about who we want to draft, who we want to be our defensive coordinator, which players we want to keep.  But it has to start with an overall plan, and that starts with the GM, who then selects the HC, who then selects the assistant coaches, and the GM and the HC draw up a blueprint for that kind of team they want and how to build it.

And that's why selecting the GM is the most critical decision this team has to make this offseason.

Leonard Williams will help their transition

(12-26-2020, 07:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It's a great question, but it's an illustration of why the rebuilding process starts with a GM who not only knows how to select the best talent, but also has a plan for how the build the roster in a way that fits an overall scheme.  And then he has to select a coach who is on the same page.  You don't just pick the best players; you pick players that fit the blueprint that is laid out by the coach and GM.  

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here.  

But it all starts with the GM.  We can banter around all we want about who we want to draft, who we want to be our defensive coordinator, which players we want to keep.  But it has to start with an overall plan, and that starts with the GM, who then selects the HC, who then selects the assistant coaches, and the GM and the HC draw up a blueprint for that kind of team they want and how to build it.

And that's why selecting the GM is the most critical decision this team has to make this offseason.

I don't think the GM was the cause of the problems with guys like Allen and Chaisson. Having coaches that don't really understand defense, but instead just know how to run a system someone else thought up is the problem. Great coaches figure out how to get people into position to succeed, bad (for the NFL level) coaches just have a system they run, and if the player doesn't fit they put them in the wrong place and then declare the player the problem because they can't be the guy that the original coach had in that spot to make that system work when the original coach invented the scheme.

It's why I've been a big proponent of churning coaches, like GM's usually churn the bottom of the roster, until you find one that's actually competent. I really think most coaches in the nfl aren't much better than a well informed fan with a good understanding of the rules would be, they're just part of the insular big money group that keeps things in the family, which is the NFL.

(12-26-2020, 09:11 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 07:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]It's a great question, but it's an illustration of why the rebuilding process starts with a GM who not only knows how to select the best talent, but also has a plan for how the build the roster in a way that fits an overall scheme.  And then he has to select a coach who is on the same page.  You don't just pick the best players; you pick players that fit the blueprint that is laid out by the coach and GM.  

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here.  

But it all starts with the GM.  We can banter around all we want about who we want to draft, who we want to be our defensive coordinator, which players we want to keep.  But it has to start with an overall plan, and that starts with the GM, who then selects the HC, who then selects the assistant coaches, and the GM and the HC draw up a blueprint for that kind of team they want and how to build it.

And that's why selecting the GM is the most critical decision this team has to make this offseason.

I don't think the GM was the cause of the problems with guys like Allen and Chaisson. Having coaches that don't really understand defense, but instead just know how to run a system someone else thought up is the problem. Great coaches figure out how to get people into position to succeed, bad (for the NFL level) coaches just have a system they run, and if the player doesn't fit they put them in the wrong place and then declare the player the problem because they can't be the guy that the original coach had in that spot to make that system work when the original coach invented the scheme.

It's why I've been a big proponent of churning coaches, like GM's usually churn the bottom of the roster, until you find one that's actually competent. I really think most coaches in the nfl aren't much better than a well informed fan with a good understanding of the rules would be, they're just part of the insular big money group that keeps things in the family, which is the NFL.

If you really think a well informed fan is as good as an NFL coach, you are delusional.  That idea is so far off base it's ridiculous.

(12-26-2020, 09:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 09:11 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the GM was the cause of the problems with guys like Allen and Chaisson. Having coaches that don't really understand defense, but instead just know how to run a system someone else thought up is the problem. Great coaches figure out how to get people into position to succeed, bad (for the NFL level) coaches just have a system they run, and if the player doesn't fit they put them in the wrong place and then declare the player the problem because they can't be the guy that the original coach had in that spot to make that system work when the original coach invented the scheme.

It's why I've been a big proponent of churning coaches, like GM's usually churn the bottom of the roster, until you find one that's actually competent. I really think most coaches in the nfl aren't much better than a well informed fan with a good understanding of the rules would be, they're just part of the insular big money group that keeps things in the family, which is the NFL.

If you really think a well informed fan is as good as an NFL coach, you are delusional.  That idea is so far off base it's ridiculous.

I didn't say they're the same, just that the difference isn't as large as you seem to think it is.

I honestly think the most important part to being a decent NFL level coach is the desire to work at football. Clearly the real fans have it.

Do you really think given a bit of time you couldn't learn to run the same plays a guy like Wash calls? The plays were thought up by someone else, the drills were thought up by someone else, the schedule is dictated by the league. Do you really think guys like Marrone and wash are some sort of intellectuals?

(12-26-2020, 09:54 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 09:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If you really think a well informed fan is as good as an NFL coach, you are delusional.  That idea is so far off base it's ridiculous.

I didn't say they're the same, just that the difference isn't as large as you seem to think it is.

I honestly think the most important part to being a decent NFL level coach is the desire to work at football. Clearly the real fans have it.

Do you really think given a bit of time you couldn't learn to run the same plays a guy like Wash calls? The plays were thought up by someone else, the drills were thought up by someone else, the schedule is dictated by the league. Do you really think guys like Marrone and wash are some sort of intellectuals?

I think you have a very shallow understanding of what a defensive coordinator does.  You talk like it's just calling plays.  It's WAY more than that.

(12-26-2020, 10:01 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 09:54 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say they're the same, just that the difference isn't as large as you seem to think it is.

I honestly think the most important part to being a decent NFL level coach is the desire to work at football. Clearly the real fans have it.

Do you really think given a bit of time you couldn't learn to run the same plays a guy like Wash calls? The plays were thought up by someone else, the drills were thought up by someone else, the schedule is dictated by the league. Do you really think guys like Marrone and wash are some sort of intellectuals?

I think you have a very shallow understanding of what a defensive coordinator does.  You talk like it's just calling plays.  It's WAY more than that.

Sure, for a great coach it is. Like I said, most coaches aren't great. I'm a big proponent of churning through the dregs to find the gems.

(12-26-2020, 10:01 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 09:54 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say they're the same, just that the difference isn't as large as you seem to think it is.

I honestly think the most important part to being a decent NFL level coach is the desire to work at football. Clearly the real fans have it.

Do you really think given a bit of time you couldn't learn to run the same plays a guy like Wash calls? The plays were thought up by someone else, the drills were thought up by someone else, the schedule is dictated by the league. Do you really think guys like Marrone and wash are some sort of intellectuals?

I think you have a very shallow understanding of what a defensive coordinator does.  You talk like it's just calling plays.  It's WAY more than that.

From Ask Vic:

Dave from Savage, MN
A lot of us are interested in seeing more of A.J. Dillon. How is playing time determined during a game? Doesn’t the running backs coach typically make those decisions?
Play time is largely determined during the days leading up to the game and then plugged into the game plan. It's a decision made collaboratively between the head coach, the coordinator on that side of the ball and the player's position coach. There has to be a plan. If a sideline becomes too fluid it becomes chaotic. Plan and then execute the plan.

(12-26-2020, 10:14 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 10:01 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think you have a very shallow understanding of what a defensive coordinator does.  You talk like it's just calling plays.  It's WAY more than that.

From Ask Vic:

Dave from Savage, MN
A lot of us are interested in seeing more of A.J. Dillon. How is playing time determined during a game? Doesn’t the running backs coach typically make those decisions?
Play time is largely determined during the days leading up to the game and then plugged into the game plan. It's a decision made collaboratively between the head coach, the coordinator on that side of the ball and the player's position coach. There has to be a plan. If a sideline becomes too fluid it becomes chaotic. Plan and then execute the plan.

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy - Helmuth von Moltke

Everyone has a plan until he get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.

(12-26-2020, 07:25 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]Leonard Williams will help their transition

The good thing about Williams is that he can play in either scheme. If the Jags went to a 3-4, he'd be great at end. I believe Hamilton could also play in either scheme. Adding a quality nose tackle shouldn't be that difficult. Al Woods might decide to return and they could draft any one of a number of nose tackles like Tyler Shelvin, Jordan Davis or Slaton from Florida. Chaisson and Allen could easily transition to outside linebacker in this scheme.

Get a stud 3 tech that disrupts inside, a secondary that can force the QB to hold the ball a beat longer, and a coordinator that doesn’t embrace a “bend but don’t break” philosophy.

Then you’ll know what you’ve really got in Allen and Chaisson.

Chaisson may or may not develop, but I think Hamilton and Allen could be good fixtures on this D-line moving forward with better talent and scheme around them.

Neither one are made for a 4-3 scheme. They both were 3-4 OLB's in college. I believe Allen would benefit greatly from returning to that scheme. As for Chaisson, I don't know if we ever get much out of him. I wasn't a fan of his in college, I didn't like when we selected him and I'm not a fan of him now. He just is what he is. We desperately need another edge rusher. Ideally, we switch to a 3-4 scheme and add another OLB type to battle with Chaisson to play opposite Allen. We then re-sign Smoot to play 5 technique and add another big DE to play bookend to him. Hamilton would then start at NT and Jack and Schobert would start at ILB, although I'm not a Schobert fan either.

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(12-26-2020, 07:25 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]Leonard Williams will help their transition

That would be a great addition. He could play 3 technique in a 4-3 scheme or better yet, 5 technique opposite Smoot in a 3-4 scheme.

(12-26-2020, 11:48 AM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-26-2020, 07:25 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]Leonard Williams will help their transition

The good thing about Williams is that he can play in either scheme. If the Jags went to a 3-4, he'd be great at end. I believe Hamilton could also play in either scheme. Adding a quality nose tackle shouldn't be that difficult. Al Woods might decide to return and they could draft any one of a number of nose tackles like Tyler Shelvin, Jordan Davis or Slaton from Florida. Chaisson and Allen could easily transition to outside linebacker in this scheme.

Hamilton is a NT. He was playing very well before getting injured and when he was out, the run defense just collapsed. Leonard Williams opposite Smoot would be fine at 5 technique. All we'd have to do is find some depth along the front 3.

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(12-26-2020, 04:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Get a stud 3 tech that disrupts inside, a secondary that can force the QB to hold the ball a beat longer, and a coordinator that doesn’t embrace a “bend but don’t break” philosophy.

Then you’ll know what you’ve really got in Allen and Chaisson.

Chaisson may or may not develop, but I think Hamilton and Allen could be good fixtures on this D-line moving forward with better talent and scheme around them.

Agreed.

I thought most teams run hybrids now especially because so much nickel is required, and that strict 3-4 or 4-3 teams are going away.