Analysis paralysis, just draft him.
(01-07-2021, 11:52 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2021, 11:30 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, how crappy it would be if we drafted a HOF QB.....
I don't think people realize saying "Luck or Ben level" is literally saying "one of the best QBs in the last 20 years"
I don't think anybody would be upset with a "luck or ben level player". I think the question we have, or at least I have is where the hype is coming from exactly.
Maybe his play since High School and traits?
(01-07-2021, 06:13 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion (and I have only seen two of his games and some high lights of others) is that no, most likely not a generational talent like the all time greats.
"Generational talent" is a fairly new term though so maybe it depends on how you define it. I think he will be very good when he gets some experience, possibly on a Andrew Luck or Ben Rothlisberger level. I'd say better than a 95% chance he's the franchise QB we've been waiting for.
The general consensus is that there have been 4 generational QB prospects in NFL history: Elway, Peyton, Luck, and Lawrence. I assume you know that Peyton and Luck never won a championship, and Elway never even made a bowl game on his way to a losing college record!
(01-07-2021, 01:55 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2021, 06:13 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion (and I have only seen two of his games and some high lights of others) is that no, most likely not a generational talent like the all time greats.
"Generational talent" is a fairly new term though so maybe it depends on how you define it. I think he will be very good when he gets some experience, possibly on a Andrew Luck or Ben Rothlisberger level. I'd say better than a 95% chance he's the franchise QB we've been waiting for.
The general consensus is that there have been 4 generational QB prospects in NFL history: Elway, Peyton, Luck, and Lawrence. I assume you know that Peyton and Luck never won a championship, and Elway never even made a bowl game on his way to a losing college record!
Consensus among who? I'll give you Elway and Peyton. But Luck? Better than Montana? Better than Brady? Oh, you mean pre-draft. I'd bet you could find more than that. For example, Peyton and Ryan Leaf had similar evaluations at the time which just goes to show you that you never know, lol.
I'm not sure Lawrence is a concensus in the realm of Elway but he's definitely a consensus number 1.
T-Law's "generational talent" has potential for sure. As per my opinion on him, I feel that he will be very good within the NFL once he gets his feet wet sort of speaking and this can/should be said for ALL QBs. Within the past four days I've watched a ton of his highlights and the one thing that impressed me the most is his running ability. He runs better than I anticipated.
Surprise, Surprise.
Now if I'm truly being honest as I give My Opinion(s), for some reason I'd rather we draft Fields. Both have tremendous arms, both are accurate as all get out. Fields has better field vision w/respect to where the ball needs to go (verified by analysts) and Fields is a Much Better runner and we may need that in the EARLY stages of our new QB's career. All and all we will be alright w/either player.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
Lawrence's ability to be 'generational' depends entirely on the who we put around him. If the curse of this team continues and we give him turnstiles for protection and TEs with butter fingers, he'll fail.
Lawrence is only half the equation. The offensive build is equally as important as drafting him.
(01-07-2021, 02:44 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]T-Law's "generational talent" has potential for sure. As per my opinion on him, I feel that he will be very good within the NFL once he gets his feet wet sort of speaking and this can/should be said for ALL QBs. Within the past four days I've watched a ton of his highlights and the one thing that impressed me the most is his running ability. He runs better than I anticipated.
Surprise, Surprise.
Now if I'm truly being honest as I give My Opinion(s), for some reason I'd rather we draft Fields. Both have tremendous arms, both are accurate as all get out. Fields has better field vision w/respect to where the ball needs to go (verified by analysts) and Fields is a Much Better runner and we may need that in the EARLY stages of our new QB's career. All and all we will be alright w/either player.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
Not sure what you mean by seeing the field better... lol.. he looks at one read and runs. He doesn't throw receivers open, he waits until they are open.
TLaw throws them open.
TLaw throws more fluently than Fields. And he has more throwing power.
Trevor’s scramble ability is way over looked. Dude can run. And he’s 6’6” with a rocket.
I think that Trevor does things that very good to great QBs do on such a level that they appear routine. He rolls out of the pocket and finds the guy 20 yards downfield and it looks easy.
Of course it matters what we put around him. Brady doesn't become Brady without Belichick.
(01-07-2021, 03:20 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think that Trevor does things that very good to great QBs do on such a level that they appear routine. He rolls out of the pocket and finds the guy 20 yards downfield and it looks easy.
Of course it matters what we put around him. Brady doesn't become Brady without Belichick.
I think you have that backwards.
(01-07-2021, 03:26 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2021, 03:20 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think that Trevor does things that very good to great QBs do on such a level that they appear routine. He rolls out of the pocket and finds the guy 20 yards downfield and it looks easy.
Of course it matters what we put around him. Brady doesn't become Brady without Belichick.
I think you have that backwards.
I think it's both. Tom Brady isn't the same guy on another team early in his career, and Belichick isn't hailed as a great coach if Brady flames out.
(01-07-2021, 03:27 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2021, 03:26 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]I think you have that backwards.
I think it's both. Tom Brady isn't the same guy on another team early in his career, and Belichick isn't hailed as a great coach if Brady flames out.
How did Belichick influence Brady's play? He was a defensive coordinator before becoming head coach at Cleveland then he was a defensive coordinator with the Jets before going to New England. And that'll be it for this thread. i don't want to hijack it.
(01-07-2021, 02:52 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence's ability to be 'generational' depends entirely on the who we put around him. If the curse of this team continues and we give him turnstiles for protection and TEs with butter fingers, he'll fail.
Lawrence is only half the equation. The offensive build is equally as important as drafting him.
Definitely. Lawrence looks a real talent, not just the best QB coming out this year, but of course he cant do it all on his own. You need to give him the tools to succeed. Just look how many playoff teams this year have a top coach and QB.
We just need to be sensible, focus on players strengths, stop trying to put round pegs in squad holes. An OC that runs a system that suits Lawrence's playing style and build around that.
Look at some of the QBs who were drafted high in recent years. Goff, Wentz, Mahomes, Mayfield, Murray, all have had weapons bought in for them.
We have a lot of problems on D that need to be addressed too and will be just as crucial to any success but just look at Aaron Rodgers to see a generational talent let down by his teams recruitment.
(01-07-2021, 03:32 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2021, 03:27 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's both. Tom Brady isn't the same guy on another team early in his career, and Belichick isn't hailed as a great coach if Brady flames out.
How did Belichick influence Brady's play? He was a defensive coordinator before becoming head coach at Cleveland then he was a defensive coordinator with the Jets before going to New England. And that'll be it for this thread. i don't want to hijack it.
My point is that Brady had arguably more stability in a coaching staff than almost any other QB of his era. Every QB needs a system and an environment in which they can develop. If Brady had new head coaches each of his first three years like some of these rookies, he very likely does not become the same player.
Lawrence is more gifted physically than Brady and seems to possess the same work ethic and drive. But if he doesn't get the right support he still won't be what he can be. That's my point.
I would have been happy with Fields given the fact that Lawrence was not avail. So i watched a lot of Fields games this year. Just my opinion but his throws seem to float more than tlaws throws. He does have a good deep ball to open receivers where he can just put air under it.
Fields to me is nowhere near as good in the intermrdiate range wher he has to zip into tight windows. Fields can at times lock onto one read then its all run.
No way shape or form do i put Fields above Lawrence as a college qb prospect.
(01-07-2021, 09:30 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2021, 07:13 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]So the QB starts 36 games in College... You admit you only seen 2 of those 36 starts and formed your opinion off of those 2 games... Hilarious .gif "Laughing")
Even more hilarious are wannabe junior GMs who pretend to have broken down game tape of every snap of every college NFL prospect. Sure you have.
I will admit that it's possible that the only time he showed any reasons for criticism was when I happened to be watching and that he flawless when I wasn't. But we both know that's pretty unlikely.
(01-07-2021, 08:26 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]Would be 2 Hall of Famers if Luck didn't just randomly retire. I'd take a HOF QB.
Yeah agreed. I think he's a sure fire probowler. A little early to be talking HOF, lol. Somehow "not a generational talent" has been interpreted to mean "hot garbage". Jaguar fan <sigh>.
When did I say I broke down every single snap of every college NFL prospect? Why are you assuming stupid things? You basing your opinion off of 2 games is like watching the first 10 minutes of a 2 1/2 hour long movie and deciding if it's any good or not..
I've seen at least half of his games, but there's a reason why basically every person on this planet who has been around football, been in football, or has scouted football for a living, call him a generational type/cant miss prospect. And I'm not talking about people on a message board/fans either.
I think you just watched this most recent game of his, took that at full value and made your assumption off of that.
Meh. We are going to draft a young college quarterback. What he did in college or high school is pretty irrelevant. Becoming a professional or a "franchise quarterback" is pretty much a 50/50 thing. I get amused by people that think that the team will make "multiple playoff runs" and this college quarterback will "bring a championship" because he is on the team.
I am by nature usually an optimist, but not so much when it comes to drafting quarterbacks.
(01-07-2021, 07:28 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Meh. We are going to draft a young college quarterback. What he did in college or high school is pretty irrelevant. Becoming a professional or a "franchise quarterback" is pretty much a 50/50 thing. I get amused by people that think that the team will make "multiple playoff runs" and this college quarterback will "bring a championship" because he is on the team.
I am by nature usually an optimist, but not so much when it comes to drafting quarterbacks.
You wanted to win the last 2, if we did who would you draft at 2?
I'll atleast settle for him being the best Jags QB of all time, even if he isn't a generational talent.
If he's right around Justin Herbert territory, I'll be happy.