(01-20-2021, 01:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 11:56 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Makes the Jaguars insane front office moves this offseason all the more painful. The team, had it decided to go with real nfl coaching and a great GM, would be in position to rule the division for 15 years. Now, with the moves the team is making they probably hover in the 8 or 9 win territory until Meyer quits, and never build a true contending team.
The Jaguars are blowing it.
Elaborate please.
I can understand the reluctance to embrace Meyer. No NFL experience. Questionable development of QBs.
But what's with the hostility towards Baalke? I don't suggest there's nothing to it. I know 49ers fans aren't exactly thrilled with him.
But I'm not totally sure why.
Seldom, what is your gripe with Baalke?
(01-20-2021, 01:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Hard to imagine one offseason to be enough for the Jags to fully right the ship, but they certainly could make the division much more competitive amongst itself.
If we take Trevor Lawrence, and he is all we hope him to be, and we give him the help he needs, we can be competitive in the division-at least a "tough out," or not a guaranteed W on the schedule.
I'm reading into it a bit, but I don't think he'll actually have any real input, and that's the real problem. It's already been shown several times that the coach as GM model is suboptimal. That they went with Baalke means (to me) no one else wanted the job because Meyer is the one in charge, and putting a guy with no nfl experience in charge of your nfl team is a recipe for disaster. Trevor may be so good he makes Meyer look fine, but I'd say there's at least as much chance Trevor is concussed out of the nfl in a few years of running a college offensive scheme.
This offseason offered a chance for the Jaguars to become another Green Bay, a small town legacy market that the NFL would have a lot of trouble getting rid of, but instead they're Jagging it up. I could really see this offseason being the match that lights a long fuse ending with the Jaguars moving at some point over the next decade.
(01-20-2021, 01:35 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Elaborate please.
I can understand the reluctance to embrace Meyer. No NFL experience. Questionable development of QBs.
But what's with the hostility towards Baalke? I don't suggest there's nothing to it. I know 49ers fans aren't exactly thrilled with him.
But I'm not totally sure why.
Seldom, what is your gripe with Baalke?
If we take Trevor Lawrence, and he is all we hope him to be, and we give him the help he needs, we can be competitive in the division-at least a "tough out," or not a guaranteed W on the schedule.
I'm reading into it a bit, but I don't think he'll actually have any real input, and that's the real problem. It's already been shown several times that the coach as GM model is suboptimal. That they went with Baalke means (to me) no one else wanted the job because Meyer is the one in charge, and putting a guy with no nfl experience in charge of your nfl team is a recipe for disaster. Trevor may be so good he makes Meyer look fine, but I'd say there's at least as much chance Trevor is concussed out of the nfl in a few years of running a college offensive scheme.
This offseason offered a chance for the Jaguars to become another Green Bay, a small town legacy market that the NFL would have a lot of trouble getting rid of, but instead they're Jagging it up. I could really see this offseason being the match that lights a long fuse ending with the Jaguars moving at some point over the next decade.
That's reading into it more than
a little bit.
(01-20-2021, 01:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:35 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I'm reading into it a bit, but I don't think he'll actually have any real input, and that's the real problem. It's already been shown several times that the coach as GM model is suboptimal. That they went with Baalke means (to me) no one else wanted the job because Meyer is the one in charge, and putting a guy with no nfl experience in charge of your nfl team is a recipe for disaster. Trevor may be so good he makes Meyer look fine, but I'd say there's at least as much chance Trevor is concussed out of the nfl in a few years of running a college offensive scheme.
This offseason offered a chance for the Jaguars to become another Green Bay, a small town legacy market that the NFL would have a lot of trouble getting rid of, but instead they're Jagging it up. I could really see this offseason being the match that lights a long fuse ending with the Jaguars moving at some point over the next decade.
That's reading into it more than a little bit.
I can't think of anything else to make of it. A coach centric team where the coach was hired first, then they have to just stick with the guy already on staff at GM. Tells me the good candidates probably weren't interested in joining a team where they'd be answering to a coach instead of calling the shots.
Like I said, maybe Trevor is so good he makes all the moves look good, but that's an awful lot to expect of a player.
(01-20-2021, 01:47 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That's reading into it more than a little bit.
I can't think of anything else to make of it. A coach centric team where the coach was hired first, then they have to just stick with the guy already on staff at GM. Tells me the good candidates probably weren't interested in joining a team where they'd be answering to a coach instead of calling the shots.
Like I said, maybe Trevor is so good he makes all the moves look good, but that's an awful lot to expect of a player.
I can think of many other things to make of it.
Weren't Meyer and Baalke together in Utah? Could it be possible that they already know one another's football philosophies well and welcome a collective effort?
Could it be that Baalke was instrumental in bringing Meyer to the table for the job?
There are many potential scenarios you are ignoring in your assumption.
(01-20-2021, 01:47 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That's reading into it more than a little bit.
I can't think of anything else to make of it. A coach centric team where the coach was hired first, then they have to just stick with the guy already on staff at GM. Tells me the good candidates probably weren't interested in joining a team where they'd be answering to a coach instead of calling the shots.
Like I said, maybe Trevor is so good he makes all the moves look good, but that's an awful lot to expect of a player.
So if I understand you correctly, your trepidation is more reflective of Meyer's influence in personnel decisions?
Granted, the NFL differs from college in relevant part due to talent acquisition. In college, Meyer could recruit all of the talent to his team, whereas here, the pro level talent is harder to identify and harder to acquire. Through the draft, NFL teams have to wait their turn to acquire the talent.
I take some solace in the fact that Meyer's teams in college, if nothing else, have usually been exceptionally fast and athletic. If that speed and athleticism governed-a least in part- the kind of players he recruited, perhaps it will govern, at least in part, the kind of players he drafts.
(01-20-2021, 01:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:47 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I can't think of anything else to make of it. A coach centric team where the coach was hired first, then they have to just stick with the guy already on staff at GM. Tells me the good candidates probably weren't interested in joining a team where they'd be answering to a coach instead of calling the shots.
Like I said, maybe Trevor is so good he makes all the moves look good, but that's an awful lot to expect of a player.
I can think of many other things to make of it.
Weren't Meyer and Baalke together in Utah? Could it be possible that they already know one another's football philosophies well and welcome a collective effort?
Could it be that Baalke was instrumental in bringing Meyer to the table for the job?
There are many potential scenarios you are ignoring in your assumption.
You may be right, but I believe it's more likely to be how I see it. We'll see over the next few years.
(01-20-2021, 02:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:47 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I can't think of anything else to make of it. A coach centric team where the coach was hired first, then they have to just stick with the guy already on staff at GM. Tells me the good candidates probably weren't interested in joining a team where they'd be answering to a coach instead of calling the shots.
Like I said, maybe Trevor is so good he makes all the moves look good, but that's an awful lot to expect of a player.
So if I understand you correctly, your trepidation is more reflective of Meyer's influence in personnel decisions?
Granted, the NFL differs from college in relevant part due to talent acquisition. In college, Meyer could recruit all of the talent to his team, whereas here, the pro level talent is harder to identify and harder to acquire. Through the draft, NFL teams have to wait their turn to acquire the talent.
I take some solace in the fact that Meyer's teams in college, if nothing else, have usually been exceptionally fast and athletic. If that speed and athleticism governed-a least in part- the kind of players he recruited, perhaps it will govern, at least in part, the kind of players he drafts.
I don't take solace in that, I would rather have someone that has shown an elite ability to evaluate talent in charge of talent acquisition. As I said, we'll see how it goes, but I'm afraid the jaguars are going to Jag it up... again.
(01-20-2021, 02:07 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I can think of many other things to make of it.
Weren't Meyer and Baalke together in Utah? Could it be possible that they already know one another's football philosophies well and welcome a collective effort?
Could it be that Baalke was instrumental in bringing Meyer to the table for the job?
There are many potential scenarios you are ignoring in your assumption.
You may be right, but I believe it's more likely to be how I see it. We'll see over the next few years.
(01-20-2021, 02:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So if I understand you correctly, your trepidation is more reflective of Meyer's influence in personnel decisions?
Granted, the NFL differs from college in relevant part due to talent acquisition. In college, Meyer could recruit all of the talent to his team, whereas here, the pro level talent is harder to identify and harder to acquire. Through the draft, NFL teams have to wait their turn to acquire the talent.
I take some solace in the fact that Meyer's teams in college, if nothing else, have usually been exceptionally fast and athletic. If that speed and athleticism governed-a least in part- the kind of players he recruited, perhaps it will govern, at least in part, the kind of players he drafts.
I don't take solace in that, I would rather have someone that has shown an elite ability to evaluate talent in charge of talent acquisition. As I said, we'll see how it goes, but I'm not afraid the jaguars are going to Jag it up... again.
While I have some reservations...I'm not in panic mode just yet.
Him somehow bypassing Trevor Lawrence, however, would render me suicidal.
(01-20-2021, 02:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 02:07 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]You may be right, but I believe it's more likely to be how I see it. We'll see over the next few years.
I don't take solace in that, I would rather have someone that has shown an elite ability to evaluate talent in charge of talent acquisition. As I said, we'll see how it goes, but I'm not afraid the jaguars are going to Jag it up... again.
While I have some reservations...I'm not in panic mode just yet.
Him somehow bypassing Trevor Lawrence, however, would render me suicidal.
Panic isn't the word for how I feel, just disappointed.
(01-20-2021, 03:14 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 02:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]While I have some reservations...I'm not in panic mode just yet.
Him somehow bypassing Trevor Lawrence, however, would render me suicidal.
Panic isn't the word for how I feel, just disappointed.
Well...having heard that SF sports guy chime in on Baalke...I at least have a better grasp of why people tend to feel the way they feel about him. I will post a link to that interview in a few when I find it.
Here it is. The interview is at the 1:44 mark.
https://soundcloud.com/1010xl-92-5-fm-ja...me-1-20-21
(01-20-2021, 06:39 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 03:14 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Panic isn't the word for how I feel, just disappointed.
Well...having heard that SF sports guy chime in on Baalke...I at least have a better grasp of why people tend to feel the way they feel about him. I will post a link to that interview in a few when I find it.
Here it is. The interview is at the 1:44 mark.
https://soundcloud.com/1010xl-92-5-fm-ja...me-1-20-21
Really glad you posted that - I had a meeting and couldn't listen to the broadcast.
That pretty much reinforced why I was against Baalke. I hope he's gone thru the introspection they talked about in this interview. The way he was at SF is bad news.
(01-20-2021, 01:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2021, 01:47 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I can't think of anything else to make of it. A coach centric team where the coach was hired first, then they have to just stick with the guy already on staff at GM. Tells me the good candidates probably weren't interested in joining a team where they'd be answering to a coach instead of calling the shots.
Like I said, maybe Trevor is so good he makes all the moves look good, but that's an awful lot to expect of a player.
I can think of many other things to make of it.
Weren't Meyer and Baalke together in Utah? Could it be possible that they already know one another's football philosophies well and welcome a collective effort?
Could it be that Baalke was instrumental in bringing Meyer to the table for the job?
There are many potential scenarios you are ignoring in your assumption.
Trevor and low expectations were instrumental in bring Meyer here. Our interim GM knowing him as a scout from UTAH 15 years ago? That’s a nicety, not a fundamental reason to come someplace. Baalke is hopefully just a placeholder, Meyer is the real GM.
(01-28-2021, 12:39 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-13-2021, 01:31 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed.
Reich is an outstanding head coach in my estimation. His coaching enabled the Colts to even reach this point in the first place.
I just think his decisions left much to be desired in this game.
Now that the Texans are going with David Culley as their new HC, barring something totally unexpected, the Colts got a huge break with Defensive Coordinator Matt Eberflus not landing an NFL HC job this year. As impressive as Frank Reich has been overall as Colts HC, Eberflus has been the same as their DC.
When studying the Colts in greater depth leading up to their November 1 game in Detroit, I was skeptical that the Colts Defense was as good as their Defensive stats reflected. During the Colts win over the Lions, a game that wasn't close late, I became convinced that the Colts Defense was amongst the best in the NFL. Nothing changed my mind since then.
Eberflus is a good DC and the Colts did get a break in retaining him another season.
However, it seems they lost their top choice for a veteran QB to replace Rivers in the Stafford trade, as well as their LT to retirement.
They lost another veteran QB in Goff. The Eagles fired Pederson because of differences between a pro Wentz ownership and Pederson, who apparently soured on him. I don't think the Eagles will be inclined to trade him this offseason, even if they like Hurts. Nor do I see the Texans trading Watson within their division.
Barring something unexpected with a guy like Aaron Rodgers, the Colts will either have to go with a 2nd or 3rd tier vet QB, or to draft and develop a rookie that falls, or spend the draft capital to trade up for a rookie. If they trade up for a QB, it'll be harder to fill the LT role.
The Colts could plateau for a year or so sorting this out.
(01-10-2021, 08:41 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2021, 05:40 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...an-as-g-m/
Knowing you made the wrong decision when on the cusp of making, most likely, the right decision must be tough to accept. Also knowing you paid $600K to lay such an egg adds a whole extra layer of stupid to the mess.
And another thing, why the hell is the team QB even remotely involved with this process? Is Cal McNair really that stupid?
Or desperate.
I think to mollify Watson after all of these people were traded away, he offered him a say in the process...then reneged.
Too bad...so sad.
Not really.
(02-01-2021, 10:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (01-28-2021, 12:39 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]Now that the Texans are going with David Culley as their new HC, barring something totally unexpected, the Colts got a huge break with Defensive Coordinator Matt Eberflus not landing an NFL HC job this year. As impressive as Frank Reich has been overall as Colts HC, Eberflus has been the same as their DC.
When studying the Colts in greater depth leading up to their November 1 game in Detroit, I was skeptical that the Colts Defense was as good as their Defensive stats reflected. During the Colts win over the Lions, a game that wasn't close late, I became convinced that the Colts Defense was amongst the best in the NFL. Nothing changed my mind since then.
Eberflus is a good DC and the Colts did get a break in retaining him another season.
However, it seems they lost their top choice for a veteran QB to replace Rivers in the Stafford trade, as well as their LT to retirement.
They lost another veteran QB in Goff. The Eagles fired Pederson because of differences between a pro Wentz ownership and Pederson, who apparently soured on him. I don't think the Eagles will be inclined to trade him this offseason, even if they like Hurts. Nor do I see the Texans trading Watson within their division.
Barring something unexpected with a guy like Aaron Rodgers, the Colts will either have to go with a 2nd or 3rd tier vet QB, or to draft and develop a rookie that falls, or spend the draft capital to trade up for a rookie. If they trade up for a QB, it'll be harder to fill the LT role.
The Colts could plateau for a year or so sorting this out.
The Colts indeed have a dilemma. Yet, after seeing that the Colts reportedly didn't even offer pick # 21 in the 2021 Draft as part of a potential trade with the Lions for Matthew Stafford, I have doubts they will satisfy the Falcons in a trade for Matt Ryan.
The two reasons why I believe Carson Wentz is a realistic possibility for the Colts in a trade for the Eagles are the Frank Reich connection with Wentz and that Wentz likely would be traded for far less than Stafford and what it would take to get Matt Ryan.
Because the Colts have a great salary cap situation for 2021, they could aggressively pursue a LT in Free Agency. With a lower NFL Salary Cap expected in 2021, one or more higher quality LTs that in most years wouldn't hit the open market without being re-signed or tagged, very realistically could be available.
(02-05-2021, 01:21 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2021, 10:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Eberflus is a good DC and the Colts did get a break in retaining him another season.
However, it seems they lost their top choice for a veteran QB to replace Rivers in the Stafford trade, as well as their LT to retirement.
They lost another veteran QB in Goff. The Eagles fired Pederson because of differences between a pro Wentz ownership and Pederson, who apparently soured on him. I don't think the Eagles will be inclined to trade him this offseason, even if they like Hurts. Nor do I see the Texans trading Watson within their division.
Barring something unexpected with a guy like Aaron Rodgers, the Colts will either have to go with a 2nd or 3rd tier vet QB, or to draft and develop a rookie that falls, or spend the draft capital to trade up for a rookie. If they trade up for a QB, it'll be harder to fill the LT role.
The Colts could plateau for a year or so sorting this out.
The Colts indeed have a dilemma. Yet, after seeing that the Colts reportedly didn't even offer pick # 21 in the 2021 Draft as part of a potential trade with the Lions for Matthew Stafford, I have doubts they will satisfy the Falcons in a trade for Matt Ryan.
The two reasons why I believe Carson Wentz is a realistic possibility for the Colts in a trade for the Eagles are the Frank Reich connection with Wentz and that Wentz likely would be traded for far less than Stafford and what it would take to get Matt Ryan.
Because the Colts have a great salary cap situation for 2021, they could aggressively pursue a LT in Free Agency. With a lower NFL Salary Cap expected in 2021, one or more higher quality LTs that in most years wouldn't hit the open market without being re-signed or tagged, very realistically could be available.
Under "normal" circumstances, I would agree completely with you that Wentz would be the logical target for the Colts due to the connection with Frank Reich. However, the Eagles fired Pederson-a Super bowl winning coach-in part because he had moved on from Wentz, while ownership is still trying to justify signing him to that extension. For them to turn around and trade Wentz now would make for a PR nightmare for the Eagles, especially if they trade him away for anything less than a premium price.
I wonder how much it will take to get Trent Williams from the 49ers. I know even with him being 31-31, he's my top FA target.
I wonder how long it will take the Texans to transition from a 3-4 to a Tampa 2 scheme, especially with the lack of picks they have. Lovie Smith is a good defensive mind, but that speed based scheme isn't like that 3-4. If they trade Watson, they'll have the picks, but then they won't have Watson, they'll likely have a rookie QB who won't be anywhere near as good as Watson, with a lot of rookies in a new scheme that will give up underneath stuff.
(02-05-2021, 05:06 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-05-2021, 04:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Under "normal" circumstances, I would agree completely with you that Wentz would be the logical target for the Colts due to the connection with Frank Reich. However, the Eagles fired Pederson-a Super bowl winning coach-in part because he had moved on from Wentz, while ownership is still trying to justify signing him to that extension. For them to turn around and trade Wentz now would make for a PR nightmare for the Eagles, especially if they trade him away for anything less than a premium price.
I wonder how much it will take to get Trent Williams from the 49ers. I know even with him being 31-31, he's my top FA target.
I saw a report a few minutes ago that the Bears made a better than expected offer for Carson Wentz. If this report proves to be the case, it likely will lessen the heat that will be coming for the chain of events with the Eagles that you mentioned.
[font=Times New Roman]https://twitter.com/BRobNFL/status/1357764256398270466?s=20
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https://twitter.com/BRobNFL/status/1357764256398270466
Last March ( before the affects of COVID-19 on the NFL ), Trent Williams was reportedly seeking at least $20 million a year. With the Jaguars and Colts having great salary cap situations, Williams could easily end up being a big financial winner if he hits the open market.
Redskins' Trent Williams seeking $20M per year on contract with new team, per report - CBSSports.com
To me, even assuming they get premium price for Wentz, there is still the issue of firing a Super Bowl winning coach. If Pederson and the front office disagreed over whether Wentz is still a starting QB for the team, and you end up trading Wentz (ultimately agreeing with Pederson), then why not defer to the coach, move on from Wentz and keep Pederson?!?
Then there's also the issue of where the Colts go from here, if we assume the reports of the Bears winning a bidding war form Wentz' services is true. Irsay himself has debunked the rumors of Luck coming out of retirement. What do the Colts do at QB if all of this is true? There is talk of the 49ers and Vikings swapping QBs. The Packers have been adamant they have no intent to trade Aaron Rodgers. Big Ben's situation in Pittsburgh is questionable due to his age and their salary cap situation.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agent...s-or-goes/
In a year where the salary cap may decrease due to reduced revenues, it's questionable whether the Steelers can keep him, and it's questionable what trade market there will be for a 39 year old QB with so big of a contract. Watson? It's doubtful the Colts could muster the draft capital to pull off a trade, and that's assuming the Texans would be willing to trade Watson within the division.