01-27-2021, 06:30 PM
95% of this forum trashed alualu from the day he was drafted till the day he left, now we’re using him as an example of our GM knew nothing for letting him go
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01-27-2021, 06:30 PM
01-27-2021, 08:42 PM
(01-27-2021, 06:30 PM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]95% of this forum trashed alualu from the day he was drafted till the day he left, now we’re using him as an example of our GM knew nothing for letting him go
Honestly he was overdrafted but he is a solid player
01-27-2021, 09:28 PM
(01-27-2021, 10:53 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ](01-27-2021, 10:29 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]You make a very good point as usual. The thing is, most of those names were drafted high by us or became a key player to starter for us. We identified talent but we couldnt get one of those players to sign a 2nd contract.
This is one thing I think weve lost in the years of churning draft picks, the first few years are seeing if the guy is good enough and improves over those 4-5 years, it's not a case of they have to win a SB on that rookie contract to justify a second one.
I get the salary cap makes it hard to keep teams together but I want a core group of leaders that are here for a career and get Duval and Jacksonville and can teach that to the next generation.
Here lies the problem with that list. No leaders other than Calais.
Give this man a prize. Most of those players are just guys. Campbell and Ramsey are the exceptions. Campbell was expensive and getting to the end of his career. We did him a solid by letting him sign with a winner. Ramsey is a talented, lazy, selfish turd. Good riddance. Robinson refused to sign. The rest are just starters, not stars. Easily replaceable.
01-27-2021, 09:35 PM
(01-27-2021, 12:40 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]And yet I wouldn’t change anything about it to be in the position we currently are.
That part
01-27-2021, 10:19 PM
It's always been the coaches. We've had a little talent, but whatever talent we had slipped through our hands like water. The coaches/staff were incompetent from the top down. Clueless. Marrone and Wash, and every OC that was selected, were in over their head. I feel like a main culprit in our lack of success was the team being hellbent on trying to build that super defense. Failing to bolster the offense, while piling up average Joe's for a defensive coordinator who should have been coaching at a Community College.
01-27-2021, 11:08 PM
(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
No one is saying that the Jaguars haven't made mistakes. I wanted Caldwell fired as much as anyone. However, I hardly find this list to be "mind-boggling". While what you said is perhaps factually true from a certain perspective, it's misleading with a lot of caveats that are worth noting. To start, the playoffs were expanded to 14 teams. Almost half of the league (44%) is now considered a "playoff team". You listed 12 "starters", but you included 2 special teams players. I wouldn't. That makes it 10 players on 14 teams and even that is misleading. You are counting multiple players who were regular season backups and only started because of injury to the real starter. One player on your list is a running back who had a whole 70 rushing yards during the entire regular season! When injuries hit, players step in. It's a little misleading to portray them as "starters" without clearly making that caveat up front. Of the ones on the list who are real starters, most of them are "just guys". Even playoff teams rarely have quality players at all 22 positions. Usually, there are some "just guys" mixed into it. There are really only four quality starters on the list and we are all well aware of them. Three of them clearly wanted out of Jacksonville and the other was an aging player, who while he would have helped us this year, wasn't seen as part of a rebuilding team that wouldn't be making a serious playoff run for another couple of years. It should also be noted that three of those quality lost players combined to bring us 2 first rounders, 1 second rounder, 1 fourth rounder, and 2 fifth rounders. With one exception, all of those picks are all still to come. Those lost players also relieved us of huge salaries which will allow us to be active in free agency this year. If the Jaguars make smart use of those resources, the loss is significantly lessened.
01-27-2021, 11:28 PM
(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue Not a starter and cried his way out. Not worth the money he wanted which should be clear now for everyone
Calais Campbell Solid starter but getting old
Jalen Ramsey Talented player but a diva who forced his way out
Allen Robinson I wanted to keep him but he suffered a major injury
Jaydon Mickens Dude is nothing special
Allen Lazard Don't even remember the guy here but he is nothing special
Leonard Fournette LOL dude sucks and he is not really the starter
Tashaun Gipson Guy is solid I guess
Tyson Alualu Solid player but far from special
Ronnie Harrison not a starter
Jason Myers We have someone better and he was awful here
TJ Yeldon LOL he is not a starter and he is mediocre at best
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
01-27-2021, 11:57 PM
Every team loses players to other teams and often they become starters.
01-28-2021, 09:18 AM
(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
I think you're using the term "starter" a little liberally.
I think "contributors" is a better way to say what you're trying to get across.
How many of those guys either asked to leave or chose to pursue a bigger deal elsewhere, regardless of whether we tendered an offer?
How many of them were hot garbage while there were here?
Alualu was here for what 7,8 years?
There's maybe one or two on that list that I would fight (or would have fought) to keep around. The rest of them are either good riddance or easily replaceable.
01-28-2021, 01:12 PM
They're all players that armchair GMs on this board wanted rid of?
01-28-2021, 04:14 PM
(01-28-2021, 09:18 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]forgot Marcedes Lewis(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
I think you're using the term "starter" a little liberally.
I think "contributors" is a better way to say what you're trying to get across.
How many of those guys either asked to leave or chose to pursue a bigger deal elsewhere, regardless of whether we tendered an offer?
How many of them were hot garbage while there were here?
Alualu was here for what 7,8 years?
There's maybe one or two on that list that I would fight (or would have fought) to keep around. The rest of them are either good riddance or easily replaceable.
01-29-2021, 09:08 AM
(01-28-2021, 04:14 PM)ajagsfan Wrote: [ -> ](01-28-2021, 09:18 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're using the term "starter" a little liberally.forgot Marcedes Lewis
I think "contributors" is a better way to say what you're trying to get across.
How many of those guys either asked to leave or chose to pursue a bigger deal elsewhere, regardless of whether we tendered an offer?
How many of them were hot garbage while there were here?
Alualu was here for what 7,8 years?
There's maybe one or two on that list that I would fight (or would have fought) to keep around. The rest of them are either good riddance or easily replaceable.
...was he a 'starter'? I thought Paul Tonyan was A. A. Ron's go-to-TE
01-29-2021, 09:16 AM
01-29-2021, 09:21 AM
(01-29-2021, 09:08 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ](01-28-2021, 04:14 PM)ajagsfan Wrote: [ -> ]forgot Marcedes Lewis
...was he a 'starter'? I thought Paul Tonyan was A. A. Ron's go-to-TE
He started in the playoffs.
I don't know that all the guys on the list were starters for the first game of the season. I do know that they all started in the playoffs.
A lot of the guys on the list were "just guys" for us, and we apparently thought we could do better, and let them walk. Obviously, we did not do better. And, I have a hard time believing that Caldwell would tank on purpose when the result would inevitably be for him to lose his job. That's why I think the list is evidence of incompetence, nothing more.
(01-29-2021, 09:16 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](01-29-2021, 09:08 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]...was he a 'starter'? I thought Paul Tonyan was A. A. Ron's go-to-TE
Seven players on that “amazing list” are also not starters.
They all started in the playoffs.
01-29-2021, 02:28 PM
(01-29-2021, 09:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](01-29-2021, 09:08 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]...was he a 'starter'? I thought Paul Tonyan was A. A. Ron's go-to-TE
He started in the playoffs.
I don't know that all the guys on the list were starters for the first game of the season. I do know that they all started in the playoffs.
A lot of the guys on the list were "just guys" for us, and we apparently thought we could do better, and let them walk. Obviously, we did not do better. And, I have a hard time believing that Caldwell would tank on purpose when the result would inevitably be for him to lose his job. That's why I think the list is evidence of incompetence, nothing more.
No one is denying that the Jaguars have made mistakes. I just feel that your list falls way short of "amazing" or "mind-boggling". It sounds good to say "he's a playoff game starter", but if he's a guy who was incapable of finding a starting job on any team in the entire league and just started because of injuries, I don't think the Jaguars should be kicking themselves because of it. You included TJ Yeldon on the list. Here's the regular season stats for this running back:
Rushing Yards: 70
Rushing TD's: 0
Receiving Yards: 22
Receiving TD's: 1
Those aren't averages per games. Those are TOTALS! Do you really think the Jaguars are kicking themselves for letting this production go? Being a "playoff game starter" doesn't necessarily mean much.
Your list included 12 names, but it really only comes down to 4 guys who would have had a significant impact on the team this year. If you want to criticize the handling of the four quality players, fine. However, I would remind you that 3 clearly want out of Jacksonville and the other was an aging player who has seen his production decline for three straight years. I know there's nostalgia, but are you aware that Campbell only had 4 sacks this year? His production will likely continue to decline over the next year or two which is the earliest the team would realistically be competitive. While I don't believe the team was "tanking", I do think they were looking at the team's long term future and didn't see Campbell as part of it. You also aren't considering the salary cap impact of these players or that most of these were trades that have netted us 2 first rounders, 1 second rounder, 2 fourth rounders and 2 fifth rounders. With one exception, these picks have all yet to come.
01-30-2021, 01:23 AM
(01-29-2021, 09:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](01-29-2021, 09:08 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]...was he a 'starter'? I thought Paul Tonyan was A. A. Ron's go-to-TE
He started in the playoffs.
I don't know that all the guys on the list were starters for the first game of the season. I do know that they all started in the playoffs.
A lot of the guys on the list were "just guys" for us, and we apparently thought we could do better, and let them walk. Obviously, we did not do better. And, I have a hard time believing that Caldwell would tank on purpose when the result would inevitably be for him to lose his job. That's why I think the list is evidence of incompetence, nothing more.
(01-29-2021, 09:16 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Seven players on that “amazing list” are also not starters.
They all started in the playoffs.
Starting due to injury and starting at a ST position is misleading at best IMO.
Don’t get me wrong - I hate that we haven’t been smarter about retaining talent going all the way back to Daryl Smith. I get your point.
I just think there are only four players on your list that we realistically could have and should have kept.
The rest are either no real loss, irretrievable malcontents, middling rotation guys, or one trick role players.
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