(03-09-2021, 09:46 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2021, 11:34 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ]Rico, getting emotional. which means losing the arugment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGge4NtTUE
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/04/carson...ews-eagles
If 'losing the argument' means that you have no idea what you're talking about...I lost. Why don't you post some three cone or 40 times, that might help.
I'm not quite sure what posting an article from 2018 is supposed to show, but good job.
You post crap that has zero correlation to your 'argument' like it's supposed to mean something. You did the EXACT same thing in the Watson thread.
Ahh, still bitter about your Texas golden boy, DeShuan Watson.
(03-09-2021, 12:44 PM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2021, 09:46 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]If 'losing the argument' means that you have no idea what you're talking about...I lost. Why don't you post some three cone or 40 times, that might help.
I'm not quite sure what posting an article from 2018 is supposed to show, but good job.
You post crap that has zero correlation to your 'argument' like it's supposed to mean something. You did the EXACT same thing in the Watson thread.
Ahh, still bitter about your Texas golden boy, DeShuan Watson.
Once again. Very relevant.
Why not make the read option a part. I know read all the "reasons" people think it is a bad idea, but no one know HOW anyone is going to get hurt. It should be a part of the playbook for a lot of reasons. He is comfortable with it being one. It also can be used just as the roll-out to keep defenses from knowing where he is going to be all the time. I am not saying depending on him being a running back
100% chance we have RPOs and other college style plays in the offense.
(03-09-2021, 10:40 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Why not make the read option a part. I know read all the "reasons" people think it is a bad idea, but no one know HOW anyone is going to get hurt. It should be a part of the playbook for a lot of reasons. He is comfortable with it being one. It also can be used just as the roll-out to keep defenses from knowing where he is going to be all the time. I am not saying depending on him being a running back
All you have to do is look at the careers of running QBs.
Cam Newton, broken down.
Andrew Luck a broken man and retired at 29.
Michael Vick done as a good QB by the time he was 31.
(03-10-2021, 12:21 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2021, 10:40 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Why not make the read option a part. I know read all the "reasons" people think it is a bad idea, but no one know HOW anyone is going to get hurt. It should be a part of the playbook for a lot of reasons. He is comfortable with it being one. It also can be used just as the roll-out to keep defenses from knowing where he is going to be all the time. I am not saying depending on him being a running back
All you have to do is look at the careers of running QBs.
Cam Newton, broken down.
Andrew Luck a broken man and retired at 29.
Michael Vick done as a good QB by the time he was 31.
Cam is broken down, after a ten year career. Perish the thought. How many QB tend to last that long
as the starter/franchise QB?
Luck had no OL and was not a run-first QB. (around 60 runs per season, half that of Cam, equal to Blake Bortles)
Vick spent his prime years in jail, and was basically a backup once that time elapsed.
Good examples. Great job. I don't see how anyone isn't convinced yet.
Maybe we should cite the ultimate example - Drew Bledsoe - Feet of concrete, an absolute statue, decided to run
one time and ends up with his liver in the back of his throat. Oh yeah, and spawned the career of some guy who cheated a bunch, paid too much attention to how Drewsy got hurt, stayed in the pocket, and well, poop.
(03-10-2021, 09:32 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2021, 12:21 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ]All you have to do is look at the careers of running QBs.
Cam Newton, broken down.
Andrew Luck a broken man and retired at 29.
Michael Vick done as a good QB by the time he was 31.
Cam is broken down, after a ten year career. Perish the thought. How many QB tend to last that long as the starter/franchise QB?
Luck had no OL and was not a run-first QB. (around 60 runs per season, half that of Cam, equal to Blake Bortles)
Vick spent his prime years in jail, and was basically a backup once that time elapsed.
Good examples. Great job. I don't see how anyone isn't convinced yet.
Maybe we should cite the ultimate example - Drew Bledsoe - Feet of concrete, an absolute statue, decided to run one time and ends up with his liver in the back of his throat. Oh yeah, and spawned the career of some guy who cheated a bunch, paid too much attention to how Drewsy got hurt, stayed in the pocket, and well, poop.
Mikey, to be done as an elite QB by the time you are 30 is not what franchises are looking for.
Brady and Manning, the two most unathletic QB's of all time both played 20 years.
Aaron Rodgers has played 16 (though he did sit his first 3 years behind Farve so it's really 13 years)
Drew Brees 20 years
Simple math, Mikey. An Elite QB for 20 years is much better than an Elite running QB for only 10 years. The return on investment is much greater not to mention, getting a #1 overall pick when a generational QB comes out isn't easy to do.
(03-10-2021, 12:21 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ] (03-09-2021, 10:40 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Why not make the read option a part. I know read all the "reasons" people think it is a bad idea, but no one know HOW anyone is going to get hurt. It should be a part of the playbook for a lot of reasons. He is comfortable with it being one. It also can be used just as the roll-out to keep defenses from knowing where he is going to be all the time. I am not saying depending on him being a running back
All you have to do is look at the careers of running QBs.
Cam Newton, broken down.
Andrew Luck a broken man and retired at 29.
Michael Vick done as a good QB by the time he was 31.
3 examples of people that got injured, sure I can show you 3 that didn't run and got hurt fast too.
Why don't we look at last year...
Runs per game
Lamar Jackson 10.60
Cam Newton 9.13
Kyler Murray 8.31
Josh Allen 6.38
Deshaun Watson 5.63
Russell Wilson 5.19
Patrick Mahomes 4.13
Justin Herbert 3.67
I am not saying we turn TL into Lamar Jackson, it is not a matter of will he run, none of us can control that, but how much. Take what the defense gives you. Overly restricting him will most likely get him hurt faster.
(03-10-2021, 10:33 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2021, 12:21 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ]All you have to do is look at the careers of running QBs.
Cam Newton, broken down.
Andrew Luck a broken man and retired at 29.
Michael Vick done as a good QB by the time he was 31.
3 examples of people that got injured, sure I can show you 3 that didn't run and got hurt fast too.
Why don't we look at last year...
Runs per game
Lamar Jackson 10.60
Cam Newton 9.13
Kyler Murray 8.31
Josh Allen 6.38
Deshaun Watson 5.63
Russell Wilson 5.19
Patrick Mahomes 4.13
Justin Herbert 3.67
I am not saying we turn TL into Lamar Jackson, it is not a matter of will he run, none of us can control that, but how much. Take what the defense gives you. Overly restricting him will most likely get him hurt faster.
Your list is all young QBs except for broken down Cam.
And that's exactly the point, the running QB has a short elite shelf life compared to the Pro Set QB.
Why would you risk a much shorter elite career for Trevor of say 10 years when you can have him for 20 years.
(03-10-2021, 11:13 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]While I respect your opinion mine is different. Show me successful QB's other than Brady that lasted 20 years and played at a high level? We can have him for 30 years if we never play him too.
Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady.
Aaron Rodgers approaching 20.
All Pro Style QBs.
Looked at those guys over their careers (Rodgers only 13 years) Manning and Brees between 2 and 3 times a game. Brady between 3 and 4, and Rodgers about 4. So over the long haul we are talking about 1 to 2 times per game different. Because I could see us see him run on average no more than 4-6 times a game when the defense made it possible. No one is thinking he would be a battering ram...lol
(03-10-2021, 11:42 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Looked at those guys over their careers (Rodgers only 13 years) Manning and Brees between 2 and 3 times a game. Brady between 3 and 4, and Rodgers about 4. So over the long haul we are talking about 1 to 2 times per game different. Because I could see us see him run on average no more than 4-6 times a game when the defense made it possible. No one is thinking he would be a battering ram...lol
I would venture to guess that most of Brady's runs are on QB sneaks for first down or goal line situations. Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning do not take off unless it's a completely open field and they can slide or get to the side lines.
(03-10-2021, 10:20 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2021, 09:32 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Cam is broken down, after a ten year career. Perish the thought. How many QB tend to last that long as the starter/franchise QB?
Luck had no OL and was not a run-first QB. (around 60 runs per season, half that of Cam, equal to Blake Bortles)
Vick spent his prime years in jail, and was basically a backup once that time elapsed.
Good examples. Great job. I don't see how anyone isn't convinced yet.
Maybe we should cite the ultimate example - Drew Bledsoe - Feet of concrete, an absolute statue, decided to run one time and ends up with his liver in the back of his throat. Oh yeah, and spawned the career of some guy who cheated a bunch, paid too much attention to how Drewsy got hurt, stayed in the pocket, and well, poop.
Mikey, to be done as an elite QB by the time you are 30 is not what franchises are looking for.
Brady and Manning, the two most unathletic QB's of all time both played 20 years.
Aaron Rodgers has played 16 (though he did sit his first 3 years behind Farve so it's really 13 years)
Drew Brees 20 years
Simple math, Mikey. An Elite QB for 20 years is much better than an Elite running QB for only 10 years. The return on investment is much greater not to mention, getting a #1 overall pick when a generational QB comes out isn't easy to do.
....so you're alleging that anyone, anywhere equated Cam to Brady, Brees or Manning with respect to his talent at any point in his career?
Please tell me who did, because I need to be sure to never pay attention to another thing they say. Do you really think our offense is going to be "Run Trevor a dozen times a game"?
So much ado about nothing.
(03-10-2021, 10:52 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ] (03-10-2021, 10:33 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]3 examples of people that got injured, sure I can show you 3 that didn't run and got hurt fast too.
Why don't we look at last year...
Runs per game
Lamar Jackson 10.60
Cam Newton 9.13
Kyler Murray 8.31
Josh Allen 6.38
Deshaun Watson 5.63
Russell Wilson 5.19
Patrick Mahomes 4.13
Justin Herbert 3.67
I am not saying we turn TL into Lamar Jackson, it is not a matter of will he run, none of us can control that, but how much. Take what the defense gives you. Overly restricting him will most likely get him hurt faster.
Your list is all young QBs except for broken down Cam.
And that's exactly the point, the running QB has a short elite shelf life compared to the Pro Set QB.
Why would you risk a much shorter elite career for Trevor of say 10 years when you can have him for 20 years.
....have you considered that maybe, just maybe, elite QB don't have to rely on their legs? I would classify guys like Lamar and Kyler as gimmicks, not elite QB. They are both young, but for now, can rely on their legs to accomplish what their arms (or receivers) cannot. In time, yes, the legs slow down faster than the arm strength deteriorates. Can they transition? Who knows at this point? If they can't they will just be another Vince Young.
I think the best example we've had of mobile QB that were able to transition into less run-first mindset would be Randall Cunningham. Dude was a generation too early, he would have flourished in today's game. Toward the end of his career he ran less, but still had plenty of arm to shred defenses. Steve Young is another example of a QB who was mobile, and used it to an advantage without relying on that as his only way to beat a defense. Those type of QB are very rare, though.
5-6 runs a game is not going to destroy a QB. Don't forget that includes QB sneaks, coverage scrambles, etc. It's not just 100 QB draws a season.
I'm not advocating that he run all the time, but if you aren't calling plays to take advantage of a defense with his feet, then you aren't playing to win.
(03-04-2021, 09:36 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: [ -> ]Urban, No Read Option for Trevor. I know Dabo was using the read option to take advantage of Trevor's speed the last two years but I think the risk of injury/cost is too great.
I would prefer Trevor to use his speed for Aaron Rodgers type mobility to extend passing plays rather than to gain yards on the ground.
https://247sports.com/college/clemson/Ar...162284465/
The first article kinda addresses this point.
(03-11-2021, 06:17 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not advocating that he run all the time, but if you aren't calling plays to take advantage of a defense with his feet, then you aren't playing to win.
My thought on the matter is along these ^ lines.
You don't want to consistently and unnecessarily put him in harm's way, but you should absolutely have a package prepared to take advantage of defenses who leave him space to roam.
I wouldn't want more than 1 or maybe 2 called QB running plays per game. I can tolerate a QB sneak on short yardage. Even Tom Brady does that. I can tolerate a called QB draw if the defense is abandoning the middle and opening a huge hole. But I don't want to make my QB into a RB. I want my QB to get the required yardage and slide. Or run out of bounds. I'm okay with that. But I don't want any called option plays where the QB keeps the ball.