(03-07-2021, 07:26 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]If not considering need:
Collins vs. Jenkins ...Collins as he is a superior impact player, that can play any LB spot or on the edge.
McNeil vs. Jordan ...Jordan as he has a higher upside to me, whereas McNeil is getting pub but believe he'll be average. Like both though.
Moehrig vs. Davis ...Moehrig is an aggressive ball-hawking free safety that positionally outranks a guard position for me. Also I feel I could find a starting caliber OG with less drop off after this pick.
Re: Collins v Jenkins, would the analysis change for you if Jenkins were a LT?
Re: McNeil, are there any NTs/DTs you would rank higher in this draft class..that you think will be better than average?
New challenge:
This is a team that is lacking in starting caliber talent, to say nothing of depth. There are only so many starters we can realistically expect to find in one draft. So you, as GM, are looking for depth in the 5th round.
The two players your scouts recommend are RB Trey Sermon and Georgia LB Monty Rice.
Who do you take and why?
(03-07-2021, 12:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2021, 02:59 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]IDK. Maybe Trevon Moehrig vs. Eric Stokes? Safety vs. CB. The comparison of Moehrig vs. Davis was fine. I'm just personally not a Davis fan.
My preference would be for Moehrig.
From a positional importance perspective, CB is typically more valuable than S, and that would favor Stokes. However:
1. I think Moehrig is a better overall player than Stokes. That is reflected in most of the big boards and mock drafts. I haven't seen Stokes ranked higher anywhere.
2. From a pure need perspective, S is a much bigger need than CB. While our CB position will not remind anyone of Ramsey Bouye, Methis and Dewayne Washington, or even Aaron Beasley and Fernando Bryant, I think for one more year, we could make do with Henderson and Jones. We won't be able to address every need position adequately. I think this is one of the positions that will have to wait until next year.
Personally, I have Stokes ranked higher. I love his blend of size and speed. He's a ballhawk that doesn't get thrown on that often and I see that skill translating well to the NFL. He and Tyson Campbell formed one of the best CB duos in college football. I like Moehrig, but unlike others, I don't see him as elite. I think he will be a good NFL player, but I just don't see separation between him and the rest of the Safeties in this draft. Both positions are huge needs for us, so that would be wash. Either player could help our team, I just prefer Stokes.
(03-07-2021, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2021, 07:26 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]If not considering need:
Collins vs. Jenkins ...Collins as he is a superior impact player, that can play any LB spot or on the edge.
McNeil vs. Jordan ...Jordan as he has a higher upside to me, whereas McNeil is getting pub but believe he'll be average. Like both though.
Moehrig vs. Davis ...Moehrig is an aggressive ball-hawking free safety that positionally outranks a guard position for me. Also I feel I could find a starting caliber OG with less drop off after this pick.
Re: Collins v Jenkins, would the analysis change for you if Jenkins were a LT?
Re: McNeil, are there any NTs/DTs you would rank higher in this draft class..that you think will be better than average?
New challenge:
This is a team that is lacking in starting caliber talent, to say nothing of depth. There are only so many starters we can realistically expect to find in one draft. So you, as GM, are looking for depth in the 5th round.
The two players your scouts recommend are RB Trey Sermon and Georgia LB Monty Rice.
Who do you take and why?
This one is easy. I am a huge Trey Sermon fan. He has soft hands and breakaway speed. He would be a perfect compliment to James Robinson. I also like Rice and could see him as a very good player, but Sermon would be too perfect a fit for our offense imo. With that said, I see no way he would be available that late. I don't think he makes it out of round 3. I also don't see Rice making it out of round 4, but maybe he could fall a little further than I expected. I'd LOVE to get Sermon in round 5 though.
(03-07-2021, 12:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2021, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Re: Collins v Jenkins, would the analysis change for you if Jenkins were a LT?
Re: McNeil, are there any NTs/DTs you would rank higher in this draft class..that you think will be better than average?
New challenge:
This is a team that is lacking in starting caliber talent, to say nothing of depth. There are only so many starters we can realistically expect to find in one draft. So you, as GM, are looking for depth in the 5th round.
The two players your scouts recommend are RB Trey Sermon and Georgia LB Monty Rice.
Who do you take and why?
This one is easy. I am a huge Trey Sermon fan. He has soft hands and breakaway speed. He would be a perfect compliment to James Robinson. I also like Rice and could see him as a very good player, but Sermon would be too perfect a fit for our offense imo. With that said, I see no way he would be available that late. I don't think he makes it out of round 3. I also don't see Rice making it out of round 4, but maybe he could fall a little further than I expected. I'd LOVE to get Sermon in round 5 though.
I have become a huge Monty Rice fan. To me he would be an ideal ILB pick for us in the middle rounds, and I think he could eventually become a starter. He is fast enough to reach the perimeter, hits with a thud and seems to diagnose well.
But I am also a huge Sermon fan. I think he could supplant James Robinson as a starter, and I really like what I have seen of Robinson. I don't think the decision would be as easy for me. Part of what makes the decision so difficult for me is striking the right balance between offense and defense this offseason. To me, the holes on offense are of more importance given the likely addition of Trevor Lawrence, but the holes on defense are more severe and numerous.
I could honestly go wither way.
(03-07-2021, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2021, 07:26 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]If not considering need:
Collins vs. Jenkins ...Collins as he is a superior impact player, that can play any LB spot or on the edge.
McNeil vs. Jordan ...Jordan as he has a higher upside to me, whereas McNeil is getting pub but believe he'll be average. Like both though.
Moehrig vs. Davis ...Moehrig is an aggressive ball-hawking free safety that positionally outranks a guard position for me. Also I feel I could find a starting caliber OG with less drop off after this pick.
Re: Collins v Jenkins, would the analysis change for you if Jenkins were a LT?
Re: McNeil, are there any NTs/DTs you would rank higher in this draft class..that you think will be better than average?
New challenge:
This is a team that is lacking in starting caliber talent, to say nothing of depth. There are only so many starters we can realistically expect to find in one draft. So you, as GM, are looking for depth in the 5th round.
The two players your scouts recommend are RB Trey Sermon and Georgia LB Monty Rice.
Who do you take and why?
If Jenkins were a LT, assuming need is not a criteria, I would still choose Collins, as I think he has elite potential.
If we are talking 2nd round or later DT prospects, I really like Daviyon Nixon as a 3 tech DT. I love high motor guys and especially big guys that can move. He's 6'3 305 and has the agility of a LB.
Good look at Nixon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FUUJJ4mNDo
For power and as a backup to Robinson, I like RB Trey Sermon. The backup at RB is more apt to get platooning playtime to keep the starter fresh. Although I like LB Monty Rice for depth and special teams, I already have a developing Shaquille Quarterman. I do tend to consider more for positional need later in the draft (5th and after), as I don't consider the grading to be much different.
Landon Dickerson or Creed Humphrey
I think Dickerson is the better and more versatile player, but his list of injuries is worrisome for a high pick. I guess I would pick Humphrey, if I am looking for a healthy center. In this case, availability slightly over ability.
(03-07-2021, 01:42 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2021, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Re: Collins v Jenkins, would the analysis change for you if Jenkins were a LT?
Re: McNeil, are there any NTs/DTs you would rank higher in this draft class..that you think will be better than average?
New challenge:
This is a team that is lacking in starting caliber talent, to say nothing of depth. There are only so many starters we can realistically expect to find in one draft. So you, as GM, are looking for depth in the 5th round.
The two players your scouts recommend are RB Trey Sermon and Georgia LB Monty Rice.
Who do you take and why?
If Jenkins were a LT, assuming need is not a criteria, I would still choose Collins, as I think he has elite potential.
If we are talking 2nd round or later DT prospects, I really like Daviyon Nixon as a 3 tech DT. I love high motor guys and especially big guys that can move. He's 6'3 305 and has the agility of a LB.
Good look at Nixon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FUUJJ4mNDo
For power and as a backup to Robinson, I like RB Trey Sermon. The backup at RB is more apt to get platooning playtime to keep the starter fresh. Although I like LB Monty Rice for depth and special teams, I already have a developing Shaquille Quarterman. I do tend to consider more for positional need later in the draft (5th and after), as I don't consider the grading to be much different.
I love Dayvion Nixon and I believe he is a first rounder. In fact, I have us taking him with the #25 pick. He'd be great as a 3 technique or as a 5 technique in a 3-4 defense.
(03-07-2021, 03:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Landon Dickerson or Creed Humphrey
Dickerson. He's got a nasty streak that I like in a Center. I also don't know about Humphrey, since he is left handed. I've read that there can be some adjustment in the QB/Center exchange between a right handed QB and left handed Center. This was also brought up during the Senior Bowl as well. Humphrey is a very good Center prospect, but for our particular situation, I have Dickerson slightly ahead. This is an excellent Center class though. Guys like Dickerson, Humphrey, Meinerz and Meyers could all be gone by day 2 of the draft. David Moore and Robert Hainsey could sneak in there as well. Both were used at the position during Senior Bowl practices.
Rondale Moore v. Richie Grant
Rashod Bateman at 33 or Dyami Brown at 106?
(03-08-2021, 03:48 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Rondale Moore v. Richie Grant
Rondale Moore is such a dynamic playmaker, when healthy, that I would choose him over Grant. However, I would need to consult with team doctors to determine if his health issues are behind him.
(03-08-2021, 03:48 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Rondale Moore v. Richie Grant
What round are we talking here? Just from a player vs. player perspective, I easily take Rondale Moore. I play him in the slot between Chark and Shenault. He will give you some big play ability. As much as we need a Safety, I'm just not a fan of Richie Grant.
If Moore's medical is o.k., I'd take him for sure. He would give the receiver position speed it hasn't seen since Alvis Whited, but he is a much better player.
(03-08-2021, 04:23 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Rashod Bateman at 33 or Dyami Brown at 106?
This one is hard. I love both players. In this case, I'd have to go Brown at #106 though. That way I can use that #33 pick to address some more pressing areas with elite players. I have Brown as the most underrated WR in the draft. If he falls to round 4, I'd most likely be all over him. Dyami is dynamic.
(03-06-2021, 01:03 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Judging them solely as players, wholly irrespective of need, who would you take at 25 between Teven Jenkins and Zaven Collins?
I am genuinely torn between the two.
Collins.
Reasons are twofold. I see a lot of Cam Robinson in the write-ups I see on Jenkins, and I think there are better tackles that can be had either here at 25 or if you wait till 33. He'd excel at RT, but I don't know if I want him on the left as a long-term solution.
Second, I think someone with the instincts of Collins can come in, and learn the ropes from a guy like Schobert, and allow us to move on from him. It allows us to be multiple in our defensive fronts, where both LB can line up in a 3-4 or hybrid look. I don't really complain about Schobert, but he's going to get a little more expensive each year he remains on the team, and I'd be happier having a replacement in place that doesn't force our hand a year or two down the road. I don't see an immediate trade or release, but next year it begins being affordable where we actually save cap room by moving on should we choose to do so.
(03-06-2021, 02:34 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2021, 02:27 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I will say that LB in a 3-4 is more important than the off ball LB in a 4-3, and Collins could play at the point at OLB in a 3-4.
Our ILBs are two of our highest paid players. Our OLBs are our last two first round draft picks. Either way the amount that we've invested into our linebackers should mean we virtually have to go elsewhere with our extremely valuable and important 25th overall pick.
The only way it would be wise to pick Collins is if you think that he is far and away the best player available at 25, and I just don't think it's possible to have him graded a full tier ahead of the other players that will be on the board at the time. Regardless of whether that's Jenkins or someone else.
EDIT: Honestly, I actually do think we need another outside pass rusher. I have strongly considered Ojulari at 25. If you think Collins can be a premier pass rusher then he would be fine there, but most people think he is more off ball/versatile than pure pass rusher.
I think in the cap era you have to make that a mark against the players on the roster. It's a big reason why I think Collins is the better value than Jenkins. Making your expensive guys expendable is extremely valuable.
(03-07-2021, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]New challenge:
This is a team that is lacking in starting caliber talent, to say nothing of depth. There are only so many starters we can realistically expect to find in one draft. So you, as GM, are looking for depth in the 5th round.
The two players your scouts recommend are RB Trey Sermon and Georgia LB Monty Rice.
Who do you take and why?
Curse you, this is a good one.
Assuming we haven't added anyone at LB before this pick, of course. I would favor Rice by a hair, and only because the remaining depth at the position isn't equal between the two. I think Sermon is a guy who can play all 3 downs, and having Robinson on the roster already limits that playing time. I'm looking for a more 'twitchy' complement to JRob's game, as I believe he is up to the task when it comes to continuing to get the lion's share of snaps over the season. I think there are similar players to Sermon to be picked from later in the darft, if that is the type of RB you're looking for, and I don't see nearly as many comparable to Rice at LB, so I'd have to take him if everything else graded out near equally.
(03-08-2021, 10:26 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2021, 04:23 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Rashod Bateman at 33 or Dyami Brown at 106?
This one is hard. I love both players. In this case, I'd have to go Brown at #106 though. That way I can use that #33 pick to address some more pressing areas with elite players. I have Brown as the most underrated WR in the draft. If he falls to round 4, I'd most likely be all over him. Dyami is dynamic.
I am not a big fan of Bateman. However, I DO like Brown. Not only do I think Brown would be a better value at his spot than Bateman would be at 33, I think Brown will be the better and more explosive player.
(03-07-2021, 12:32 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2021, 12:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]My preference would be for Moehrig.
From a positional importance perspective, CB is typically more valuable than S, and that would favor Stokes. However:
1. I think Moehrig is a better overall player than Stokes. That is reflected in most of the big boards and mock drafts. I haven't seen Stokes ranked higher anywhere.
2. From a pure need perspective, S is a much bigger need than CB. While our CB position will not remind anyone of Ramsey Bouye, Methis and Dewayne Washington, or even Aaron Beasley and Fernando Bryant, I think for one more year, we could make do with Henderson and Jones. We won't be able to address every need position adequately. I think this is one of the positions that will have to wait until next year.
Personally, I have Stokes ranked higher. I love his blend of size and speed. He's a ballhawk that doesn't get thrown on that often and I see that skill translating well to the NFL. He and Tyson Campbell formed one of the best CB duos in college football. I like Moehrig, but unlike others, I don't see him as elite. I think he will be a good NFL player, but I just don't see separation between him and the rest of the Safeties in this draft. Both positions are huge needs for us, so that would be wash. Either player could help our team, I just prefer Stokes.
I read this as "it's easier to hide blemishes at safety than CB" - Moehrig may be a hawk, but there's a lot of guys in this draft that I see as suitable. Once you get past the top 4-5 CB, it goes downhill.
....did I see where stokes ran a 4.24 electronic this weekend? If so, he might not be there at 33.