Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(03-22-2021, 12:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2021, 11:31 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I've got to say I don't really have any "get this guy at all costs" guys after TLaw. Maybe I've done too many mocks, and just had to diversify the portfolio rather than fallling in love with any particular player.

Some guys I just have a feeling about:
Jalen Mayfield - Michigan bias probably showing, but they tend to have lineman that transition well to the next level. Runyan was last year's crush, and was disappointed we didn't go after him. I think he's a viable candidate at 33, and an absolute steal at 45. Whether he plays LT or RT, I see him as a long-term and significant upgrade over who we got.
Zaven Collins - I think he's got great instincts and a hunger to do well. Probably have to take him at 25 if we want him, and that might sacrifice value depending on who else is still on the board.
Jalen Twyman - mid-round guy, but we just completely overhauled the DL so we'll probably watch some other team take him and develop a quality lineman. Now that Todd Wash is gone, it's weird believing that we could actually develop talent on the DL.

Some value picks I always gravitated to:
Jaelen Darden, North TX - small, speedy receiver that likely brought more to the return game than to the offense at least early on. Signing the kid from DET pretty much ensured that he's not going to be one of our picks. I saw that as the biggest need to round out our receivers.
Quentin Morris, BGSU - pardon me,  my MACtion is showing. Not going to be the splashy Kyle Pitts type TE, but probably 6th-7th round pick that seems to be valuable and stable depth at the position. Multiple years starting, biggest question will be whether he can block and get open against NFL caliber defensemen.
Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Iowa - best known as the dude who hurt himself attempting to flip into the endzone, a mid-round WR that will likely make a splash at the next level. Playing at Iowa isn't going to help showcase your talents, so someone is going to get a steal when they pick this kid.

Judge me as you wish.

You think Twyman goes mid round?

3-4? If someone wants him higher than that, ok.

(03-23-2021, 08:20 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2021, 12:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You think Twyman goes mid round?

3-4? If someone wants him higher than that, ok.

ok

---

Moehrig as well

Kyle Pitts (if he falls to 11 - could offer up our 25th and 33rd according to trade value chart), Dayo Odeyingbo in the 3rd, AVT would also be my target if pitts is picked in the top 10.  I’d trade up for AVT in a heartbeat.

(03-31-2021, 04:49 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]Kyle Pitts (if he falls to 11 - could offer up our 25th and 33rd according to trade value chart), Dayo Odeyingbo in the 3rd, AVT would also be my target if pitts is picked in the top 10.  I’d trade up for AVT in a heartbeat.

How high would you go to get him?

Do you believe he can play LT full time, or is his value as a guard enough for you to be sold on him?

(03-31-2021, 05:32 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 04:49 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]Kyle Pitts (if he falls to 11 - could offer up our 25th and 33rd according to trade value chart), Dayo Odeyingbo in the 3rd, AVT would also be my target if pitts is picked in the top 10.  I’d trade up for AVT in a heartbeat.

How high would you go to get him?

Do you believe he can play LT full time, or is his value as a guard enough for you to be sold on him?

I’ll be completely honest. I don’t trust either Robinson or Taylor. AVT can play all along the oline. If anyone falters, he can be plugged right in. Will he be a stud? Probably not. Serviceable? I believe so

(03-31-2021, 07:14 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 05:32 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]How high would you go to get him?

Do you believe he can play LT full time, or is his value as a guard enough for you to be sold on him?

I’ll be completely honest. I don’t trust either Robinson or Taylor. AVT can play all along the oline. If anyone falters, he can be plugged right in. Will he be a stud? Probably not. Serviceable? I believe so

Your mistrust of Taylor and Robinson is understood.  Taking their statements at face value, it would seem Warhop and co are the only ones that trust them.

So you would spend a first round pick-possibly more if you traded up to get him-on a "serviceable" player?

Not sure that qualifies as a ringing endorsement.

That said, I like AVT.

(03-31-2021, 04:49 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]Kyle Pitts (if he falls to 11 - could offer up our 25th and 33rd according to trade value chart), Dayo Odeyingbo in the 3rd, AVT would also be my target if pitts is picked in the top 10.  I’d trade up for AVT in a heartbeat.

Love AVT.

(03-31-2021, 07:28 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 07:14 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]I’ll be completely honest. I don’t trust either Robinson or Taylor. AVT can play all along the oline. If anyone falters, he can be plugged right in. Will he be a stud? Probably not. Serviceable? I believe so

Your mistrust of Taylor and Robinson is understood.  Taking their statements at face value, it would seem Warhop and co are the only ones that trust them.

So you would spend a first round pick-possibly more if you traded up to get him-on a "serviceable" player?

Not sure that qualifies as a ringing endorsement.

That said, I like AVT.

Like most NFL players, they aren’t top players until after they’ve made adjustments at the professional level. We all know we aren’t getting the top 2 tackles in this class, as they will most likely go at picks 5 - 10.  I’d give up capital to go from 25 to 15 if I feel I need to go get him. AVT will be serviceable this year, and will be a solid starter next year at G, and if he does well, possibly at T.   IMO, that’s worth going up to get him.

(03-31-2021, 08:12 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 07:28 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Your mistrust of Taylor and Robinson is understood.  Taking their statements at face value, it would seem Warhop and co are the only ones that trust them.

So you would spend a first round pick-possibly more if you traded up to get him-on a "serviceable" player?

Not sure that qualifies as a ringing endorsement.

That said, I like AVT.

Like most NFL players, they aren’t top players until after they’ve made adjustments at the professional level. We all know we aren’t getting the top 2 tackles in this class, as they will most likely go at picks 5 - 10.  I’d give up capital to go from 25 to 15 if I feel I need to go get him. AVT will be serviceable this year, and will be a solid starter next year at G, and if he does well, possibly at T.   IMO, that’s worth going up to get him.

Okay...that makes more sense.

(03-31-2021, 08:17 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 08:12 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]Like most NFL players, they aren’t top players until after they’ve made adjustments at the professional level. We all know we aren’t getting the top 2 tackles in this class, as they will most likely go at picks 5 - 10.  I’d give up capital to go from 25 to 15 if I feel I need to go get him. AVT will be serviceable this year, and will be a solid starter next year at G, and if he does well, possibly at T.   IMO, that’s worth going up to get him.

Okay...that makes more sense.

I wouldn’t be upset if we went 100% offensive guys in the draft. We really need more than 2 Oline guys, a TE or 2, a WR, RB, and I wouldn’t object to ignoring defence altogether. Looks like we’ll have more money next year in FA, and some success might change how players view us.

(03-31-2021, 08:40 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 08:17 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Okay...that makes more sense.

I wouldn’t be upset if we went 100% offensive guys in the draft. We really need more than 2 Oline guys, a TE or 2, a WR, RB, and I wouldn’t object to ignoring defence altogether. Looks like we’ll have more money next year in FA, and some success might change how players view us.

This kinda raises a line of inquiry I've never really considered.

I'd say one of the few things this OL has going for it is continuity.  Now some may say that's pointless if the OL is bad.  But if the Ts somehow manages to raise their level of play, the OL could be a very good one.

That said, how soon would you be willing to cut the interior three?  If they represent the current strength of our OL, how long will you be willing to keep them?  Now the team asked Norwell to accept a pay cut, and his contract ends after this year.  I think had he not accepted the pay cut, he would have been cut or traded.

If we stocked up on OL this year (assume 4 for the sake or argument) and somehow hit on all the picks such that the team were confident they could be starters, when do you insert them into the lineup, thereby making the vets that currently comprise the strength of the OL expendable?

When is sacrificing experience for youth acceptable?

Would you do it piece meal-Norwell let go in 2022, Linder in 2023, Cann somewhere in between-or replace them all at once like ripping off a band aid?

Would you expect a drop off in the quality of play-even if briefly due to the lack of continuity together?

(04-01-2021, 06:49 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-31-2021, 08:40 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn’t be upset if we went 100% offensive guys in the draft. We really need more than 2 Oline guys, a TE or 2, a WR, RB, and I wouldn’t object to ignoring defence altogether. Looks like we’ll have more money next year in FA, and some success might change how players view us.

This kinda raises a line of inquiry I've never really considered.

I'd say one of the few things this OL has going for it is continuity.  Now some may say that's pointless if the OL is bad.  But if the Ts somehow manages to raise their level of play, the OL could be a very good one.

That said, how soon would you be willing to cut the interior three?  If they represent the current strength of our OL, how long will you be willing to keep them?  Now the team asked Norwell to accept a pay cut, and his contract ends after this year.  I think had he not accepted the pay cut, he would have been cut or traded.

If we stocked up on OL this year (assume 4 for the sake or argument) and somehow hit on all the picks such that the team were confident they could be starters, when do you insert them into the lineup, thereby making the vets that currently comprise the strength of the OL expendable?

When is sacrificing experience for youth acceptable?

Would you do it piece meal-Norwell let go in 2022, Linder in 2023, Cann somewhere in between-or replace them all at once like ripping off a band aid?

Would you expect a drop off in the quality of play-even if briefly due to the lack of continuity together?

Great question, and it points out the difficulty of pulling off a rebuild of this nature.  Our offensive line is average at best, they are aging, and their contracts are about to expire.  If you plan to replace many of your offensive linemen over the next year or two, how much will that affect continuity, and how long will it be before we have a good offensive line consisting of players with contracts that are long enough that they can develop that continuity?  (I guess I just repeated what you just said.)

I think I would piece-meal it.  Try to re-sign as many as we can, while building a pipeline of guys who can beat them out. If we replace all of them at once, it will be chaos.  Inevitably some of them would not succeed, and that would be a disaster.  

I've never liked letting go of any starter before we have a better player.

(04-01-2021, 06:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-01-2021, 06:49 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]This kinda raises a line of inquiry I've never really considered.

I'd say one of the few things this OL has going for it is continuity.  Now some may say that's pointless if the OL is bad.  But if the Ts somehow manages to raise their level of play, the OL could be a very good one.

That said, how soon would you be willing to cut the interior three?  If they represent the current strength of our OL, how long will you be willing to keep them?  Now the team asked Norwell to accept a pay cut, and his contract ends after this year.  I think had he not accepted the pay cut, he would have been cut or traded.

If we stocked up on OL this year (assume 4 for the sake or argument) and somehow hit on all the picks such that the team were confident they could be starters, when do you insert them into the lineup, thereby making the vets that currently comprise the strength of the OL expendable?

When is sacrificing experience for youth acceptable?

Would you do it piece meal-Norwell let go in 2022, Linder in 2023, Cann somewhere in between-or replace them all at once like ripping off a band aid?

Would you expect a drop off in the quality of play-even if briefly due to the lack of continuity together?

Great question, and it points out the difficulty of pulling off a rebuild of this nature.  Our offensive line is average at best, they are aging, and their contracts are about to expire.  If you plan to replace many of your offensive linemen over the next year or two, how much will that affect continuity, and how long will it be before we have a good offensive line consisting of players with contracts that are long enough that they can develop that continuity?  (I guess I just repeated what you just said.)

I think I would piece-meal it.  Try to re-sign as many as we can, while building a pipeline of guys who can beat them out. If we replace all of them at once, it will be chaos.  Inevitably some of them would not succeed, and that would be a disaster.  

I've never liked letting go of any starter before we have a better player.

I am inclined to agree with you.

While I would prefer talent over experience, that is not to say experience has no value at all.  My concern is that in our zeal to upgrade the talent on the OL to provide more protection for TL, we'd sacrifice experience to make that happen-possibly defeating the whole purpose of the moves and putting him at greater risk for abuse-at least for a few games, anyway.

I think at minimum, I keep Linder at C the longest.  We need Linder to be able to identify the fronts, the mike, potential blitzersand make the adjustments while the new guys (including TL) learn.  After After 6 years in the league, I don't think there's anything he hasn't seen.  Once the new guys have a season or two under their belts, completely move on then.  I would prefer to keep Norwell a little longer too, but that does not appear to be in the cards.

(04-01-2021, 06:49 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]This kinda raises a line of inquiry I've never really considered.

I'd say one of the few things this OL has going for it is continuity.  Now some may say that's pointless if the OL is bad.  But if the Ts somehow manages to raise their level of play, the OL could be a very good one.

That said, how soon would you be willing to cut the interior three?  If they represent the current strength of our OL, how long will you be willing to keep them?  Now the team asked Norwell to accept a pay cut, and his contract ends after this year.  I think had he not accepted the pay cut, he would have been cut or traded.

If we stocked up on OL this year (assume 4 for the sake or argument) and somehow hit on all the picks such that the team were confident they could be starters, when do you insert them into the lineup, thereby making the vets that currently comprise the strength of the OL expendable?

When is sacrificing experience for youth acceptable?

Would you do it piece meal-Norwell let go in 2022, Linder in 2023, Cann somewhere in between-or replace them all at once like ripping off a band aid?

Would you expect a drop off in the quality of play-even if briefly due to the lack of continuity together?

I think with a rookie starting at QB, having an experienced group of linemen playing together is valuable. I like the idea of bringing in a rookie or two to challenge the back half of the position group.

For 2021, I think the starting 5 (Cam,Norwell,Linder,Cann,Taylor) are safe.
Bartch is only one year (I think ) in. He's one that is probably safe.
Shatley is a good interior swingman, including Center, he is probably safe unless we take a top G/C propect early
Richardson is depth, but unless he turns a corner, I don't see his contract getting renewed. If we take a tackle this year, he could be leaving a year early.

Frankly I don't know if there are any other linemen worth considering on the roster. It's a young man's game, so if anyone else is there and they can't beat out a rookie, I gladly keep the rookie.

I think the strategy of replacement is going to hinge entirely on what we do in the darft. Cam's on a show-me deal, so I think if we don't see anything special out of the backups, LT should be a priority in the draft. Doesn't have to start right away, but OL are very likely to get banged up throughout a season, so expect to see them on the field at least some of the time. If we have drafted and developed guys capable of starting, I'm ok with moving on from the more expensive guys, especially if we can recoup some value in a trade.

Even if this class is tackle-heavy, I think a big fear is starting the season with rookies on the ends trying to block for TLaw. While we saw what happened with Cincy last season, the other side of the coin is equally valid - inexperience can lead to mistakes that get guys hurt. I prefer a gradual, methodical improvement of the line that doesn't sacrifice experience just to begin development that much sooner.

Milton Williams

Pat Freiermuth. Must have for Trevor.

(04-05-2021, 12:58 PM)burt1jason Wrote: [ -> ]Pat Freiermuth. Must have for Trevor.

You saw that article from Shipley pointing out how little Trevor used TE in college right? Combine that with Meyer's reluctance to use TE that weren't all time greats and perhaps we are flat out over rating how much our offense needs a TE. 

As Jason Witten aptly said, tight ends are the slowest of the fast guys and the weakest of the strong  guys. Maybe Meyer wants fast guys and strong guys and doesn't really want the in between guys.

(04-05-2021, 12:58 PM)burt1jason Wrote: [ -> ]Pat Freiermuth. Must have for Trevor.

You saw that article from Shipley pointing out how little Trevor used TE in college right? Combine that with Meyer's reluctance to use TE that weren't all time greats and perhaps we are flat out over rating how much our offense needs a TE. 

As Jason Witten aptly said, tight ends are the slowest of the fast guys and the weakest of the strong  guys. Maybe Meyer wants fast guys and strong guys and doesn't really want the in between guys.

(04-05-2021, 01:14 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-05-2021, 12:58 PM)burt1jason Wrote: [ -> ]Pat Freiermuth. Must have for Trevor.

You saw that article from Shipley pointing out how little Trevor used TE in college right? Combine that with Meyer's reluctance to use TE that weren't all time greats and perhaps we are flat out over rating how much our offense needs a TE. 

As Jason Witten aptly said, tight ends are the slowest of the fast guys and the weakest of the strong  guys. Maybe Meyer wants fast guys and strong guys and doesn't really want the in between guys.

I may have missed that article. I found this one, but it wasn't from Shipley.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/exam...at-clemson

By the way...I like the video attached to the article above. Here is the direct link to that video.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/exam...wsource=cl