'Woke' college majors threatened under controversial Florida bill
Opponents of the measure said that it unfairly puts liberal arts degrees at an unfair advantage and that the government ought not to be involved in choosing what scholarship money covers.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/woke-college-...orida-bill
Maybe this isn't a thing anymore, but back in the day it was pretty standard to do some market research before picking a major. It didn't make any sense for me to throw a lot of my money at a college education if it wasn't going to pay off later. We used to call getting a useless degree as majoring in 'underwater basket weaving'. Compared to some of the crap offered today, that actually sounds kind of useful. At least you could score a job at Weeki Wachee or an aquarium.
Honest question: What is the value of a gender or ethnics study degree outside of political activism or maybe a teaching certificate?
(03-26-2021, 10:10 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question: What is the value of a gender or ethnics study degree outside of political activism or maybe a teaching certificate?
Law, government, insurance, Psych, Social work, banking, most corporations...lots.
(03-26-2021, 10:10 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question: What is the value of a gender or ethnics study degree outside of political activism or maybe a teaching certificate?
What's the value of any liberal arts degree? I have a history degree. There's absolutely no economic value to it. I am glad I have it, because I like having that knowledge. But I went back and got an accounting degree 3 years after I graduated with a history degree.
(03-26-2021, 11:12 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2021, 10:10 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question: What is the value of a gender or ethnics study degree outside of political activism or maybe a teaching certificate?
What's the value of any liberal arts degree? I have a history degree. There's absolutely no economic value to it. I am glad I have it, because I like having that knowledge. But I went back and got an accounting degree 3 years after I graduated with a history degree.
What made you decide to get the history degree in the first place?
A liberal friend once told me people don't go to college for the education or to learn/earn a career but for the experience. Seriously? I'm pretty sure all of those nurses, teachers, doctors, lawyers, accountants and engineers would disagree.
(03-27-2021, 01:29 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-26-2021, 11:12 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What's the value of any liberal arts degree? I have a history degree. There's absolutely no economic value to it. I am glad I have it, because I like having that knowledge. But I went back and got an accounting degree 3 years after I graduated with a history degree.
What made you decide to get the history degree in the first place?
A liberal friend once told me people don't go to college for the education or to learn/earn a career but for the experience. Seriously? I'm pretty sure all of those nurses, teachers, doctors, lawyers, accountants and engineers would disagree.
The first time I went to college I was just putting one foot in front of the other, going to college because I was supposed to, and because it was easier than getting a job. That was Indiana University. I changed my major 5 or 6 times, and finally realized I enjoyed history and that majoring in history would involve the least amount of work.
I got out with my history degree and drifted from one job to another. I painted the bathroom stalls at Ribault High School, I swept the floors at the Simmons mattress factory, I managed a gas station/convenience store from 10PM to 6AM, and I managed a warehouse for a small company that sold theater supplies. I worked as a security guard. I got my real estate license and completely failed at that.
That's what my history degree got me- enjoyment of history. Also, as in any liberal arts program, a basic knowledge of philosophy, psychology, anthropology, sociology, political science, astronomy, film studies, economics, art history, etc. But no money.
When I was 27 I woke up and realized I was going nowhere and that's when I went back and got my accounting degree at UNF.
What your liberal friend told you is true for some college students, but not all of them. IU was a typical college campus, with all the fraternities and sororities, all sorts of clubs and activities, college sports, all of that. UNF was totally different. At that time, there were only juniors and seniors. The average age of the students was 27, while the average age of the professors was 26. The students, having some life experience, were very motivated.
Just another reason for me to disagree with forgiving student loan debt. Why must the government pay for our poor decisions?
If you can't find a job with your liberal arts or gender studies degree and can't afford the payments, that's your problem.
It's a shame that people are so against having an educated populace.
(03-27-2021, 09:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's a shame that people are so against having an educated populace.
It's not being against education for the populace, it's the lack of common sense that the populace maintains..
(03-27-2021, 09:56 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 09:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's a shame that people are so against having an educated populace.
It's not being against education for the populace, it's the lack of common sense that the populace maintains..
Exactly, like the belief that college is a jobs program, that kind of silly thinking needs to be eliminated.
(03-27-2021, 05:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 01:29 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]What made you decide to get the history degree in the first place?
A liberal friend once told me people don't go to college for the education or to learn/earn a career but for the experience. Seriously? I'm pretty sure all of those nurses, teachers, doctors, lawyers, accountants and engineers would disagree.
The first time I went to college I was just putting one foot in front of the other, going to college because I was supposed to, and because it was easier than getting a job. That was Indiana University. I changed my major 5 or 6 times, and finally realized I enjoyed history and that majoring in history would involve the least amount of work.
I got out with my history degree and drifted from one job to another. I painted the bathroom stalls at Ribault High School, I swept the floors at the Simmons mattress factory, I managed a gas station/convenience store from 10PM to 6AM, and I managed a warehouse for a small company that sold theater supplies. I worked as a security guard. I got my real estate license and completely failed at that.
That's what my history degree got me- enjoyment of history. Also, as in any liberal arts program, a basic knowledge of philosophy, psychology, anthropology, sociology, political science, astronomy, film studies, economics, art history, etc. But no money.
When I was 27 I woke up and realized I was going nowhere and that's when I went back and got my accounting degree at UNF.
What your liberal friend told you is true for some college students, but not all of them. IU was a typical college campus, with all the fraternities and sororities, all sorts of clubs and activities, college sports, all of that. UNF was totally different. At that time, there were only juniors and seniors. The average age of the students was 27, while the average age of the professors was 26. The students, having some life experience, were very motivated.
I took a totally different path. High school bored me and I couldn't wait to graduate. As a young man I "knew a lot of things, but was a master at none". I went to the police academy at 19 and became a deputy sheriff. I did it for 4 years and during that time I saw fellow officers take their own life because of the stress involved, and I got sick and tired of seeing the things that I saw weekly and almost daily.
I made a switch and joined the Navy at 23 years old just to "get away" and perhaps find my way. I learned about electronics and computers, learned about leadership, honor and love of country. I took that experience and education and applied it after my time in the service.
I've held jobs as an "electronics engineer" and a "software engineer" over a period of about 20 years or so. I don't have a degree, yet I have had to train people coming out of college with EE and/or CE degrees.
Today I am a manager making a pretty good salary looking at retirement well before the typical "retirement age".
The misguided advice given to kids that they "need to go to college" needs to be stopped and changed. The idea of "forgiving student loans" also needs to go away. I as well as millions of other people paid for my education.
(03-27-2021, 04:48 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 05:43 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]The first time I went to college I was just putting one foot in front of the other, going to college because I was supposed to, and because it was easier than getting a job. That was Indiana University. I changed my major 5 or 6 times, and finally realized I enjoyed history and that majoring in history would involve the least amount of work.
I got out with my history degree and drifted from one job to another. I painted the bathroom stalls at Ribault High School, I swept the floors at the Simmons mattress factory, I managed a gas station/convenience store from 10PM to 6AM, and I managed a warehouse for a small company that sold theater supplies. I worked as a security guard. I got my real estate license and completely failed at that.
That's what my history degree got me- enjoyment of history. Also, as in any liberal arts program, a basic knowledge of philosophy, psychology, anthropology, sociology, political science, astronomy, film studies, economics, art history, etc. But no money.
When I was 27 I woke up and realized I was going nowhere and that's when I went back and got my accounting degree at UNF.
What your liberal friend told you is true for some college students, but not all of them. IU was a typical college campus, with all the fraternities and sororities, all sorts of clubs and activities, college sports, all of that. UNF was totally different. At that time, there were only juniors and seniors. The average age of the students was 27, while the average age of the professors was 26. The students, having some life experience, were very motivated.
I took a totally different path. High school bored me and I couldn't wait to graduate. As a young man I "knew a lot of things, but was a master at none". I went to the police academy at 19 and became a deputy sheriff. I did it for 4 years and during that time I saw fellow officers take their own life because of the stress involved, and I got sick and tired of seeing the things that I saw weekly and almost daily.
I made a switch and joined the Navy at 23 years old just to "get away" and perhaps find my way. I learned about electronics and computers, learned about leadership, honor and love of country. I took that experience and education and applied it after my time in the service.
I've held jobs as an "electronics engineer" and a "software engineer" over a period of about 20 years or so. I don't have a degree, yet I have had to train people coming out of college with EE and/or CE degrees.
Today I am a manager making a pretty good salary looking at retirement well before the typical "retirement age".
The misguided advice given to kids that they "need to go to college" needs to be stopped and changed. The idea of "forgiving student loans" also needs to go away. I as well as millions of other people paid for my education.
That's a wonderful story. How many of those whippersnappers that you had to train would've been hired had they not had their EE/CE degrees?
(03-27-2021, 09:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's a shame that people are so against having an educated populace.
There is nothing wrong with educated people as long as their education/degree also leads to a job/career where they can repay their student loans and pay their bills.
(03-27-2021, 06:38 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 09:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's a shame that people are so against having an educated populace.
There is nothing wrong with educated people as long as their education/degree also leads to a job/career where they can repay their student loans and pay their bills.
The great American failing is the capitalization of everything.
This is exactly why neo-marxists were able to infiltrate universities. I agree with your line of reasoning if there are checks and balances within the University system that protect hiring practices that discriminate based on ideology. That said, the goal for every job should be personal advancement. People go to college with the hope of increasing their net value. That's why people justify going into debt.
(03-27-2021, 07:22 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Just another reason for me to disagree with forgiving student loan debt. Why must the government pay for our poor decisions?
If you can't find a job with your liberal arts or gender studies degree and can't afford the payments, that's your problem.
I'm against forgiving student loan debt. But the bill in question deals with scholarship money. Not loans. The Bright Futures Scholarships pay college expenses as a reward for academic achievement in high school.
And it raises the question, if we don't want scholarship money going to liberal arts students, why are we offering those courses in the first place?
(03-27-2021, 06:15 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 04:48 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I took a totally different path. High school bored me and I couldn't wait to graduate. As a young man I "knew a lot of things, but was a master at none". I went to the police academy at 19 and became a deputy sheriff. I did it for 4 years and during that time I saw fellow officers take their own life because of the stress involved, and I got sick and tired of seeing the things that I saw weekly and almost daily.
I made a switch and joined the Navy at 23 years old just to "get away" and perhaps find my way. I learned about electronics and computers, learned about leadership, honor and love of country. I took that experience and education and applied it after my time in the service.
I've held jobs as an "electronics engineer" and a "software engineer" over a period of about 20 years or so. I don't have a degree, yet I have had to train people coming out of college with EE and/or CE degrees.
Today I am a manager making a pretty good salary looking at retirement well before the typical "retirement age".
The misguided advice given to kids that they "need to go to college" needs to be stopped and changed. The idea of "forgiving student loans" also needs to go away. I as well as millions of other people paid for my education.
That's a wonderful story. How many of those whippersnappers that you had to train would've been hired had they not had their EE/CE degrees?
Without a degree but experienced? All. I'm proof of that. I got hired on as an "electronics engineer" even though one of the the requirements for the job was a degree. When I went for an interview I was able to demonstrate my knowledge and ability.
True story. The guy that hired me had a masters degree in EE. I had to show him why we needed an oscilloscope. He allowed me to order one and I had to show him how to use it.
My point is that "higher education" which in many cases has become "indoctrination" isn't always needed to perform a job and make a pretty good living.
(03-27-2021, 06:53 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 06:38 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]There is nothing wrong with educated people as long as their education/degree also leads to a job/career where they can repay their student loans and pay their bills.
The great American failing is the capitalization of everything.
What does that have to do with being responsible citizens?
(03-28-2021, 04:14 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 06:53 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The great American failing is the capitalization of everything.
What does that have to do with being responsible citizens?
We shouldn't be profiting off of education, I thought that was obvious.
(03-28-2021, 02:20 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2021, 06:15 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]That's a wonderful story. How many of those whippersnappers that you had to train would've been hired had they not had their EE/CE degrees?
Without a degree but experienced? All. I'm proof of that. I got hired on as an "electronics engineer" even though one of the the requirements for the job was a degree. When I went for an interview I was able to demonstrate my knowledge and ability.
True story. The guy that hired me had a masters degree in EE. I had to show him why we needed an oscilloscope. He allowed me to order one and I had to show him how to use it.
My point is that "higher education" which in many cases has become "indoctrination" isn't always needed to perform a job and make a pretty good living.
My point is that most white collar jobs don't offer even a look at the candidate if there's no degree listed on the cover.