(04-14-2021, 05:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 04:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He ran from the cops for over a mile and then refused to get out of his car. As an uncooperative detainee had every reason to be afraid.
It appears he was looking for a safe area to pull over. That is the responsible thing to do. If I was in his situation I'd do the same exact thing. I don't wanna get myself or anyone else killed, because I pulled over in a dangerous spot. He was not being uncooperative at all. If he was trying to flee, he never would've stopped at all or he would have ran. We see those types of videos all the time. This was different. He did neither. That is evident in the video. They won't even tell him why they were pulling him over. These are just "amped up" cops looking to assert their authority on someone without justification. That's what happens when you put people with personality disorders in positions of power. The power goes to their heads and you get incidents like this. I truly believe police or other professions that allow you to use deadly force, should make potential employees go through very stringent psychological evaluations before they put you out in the field. I truly don't believe this cop would've passed such an evaluation based upon his actions in this video.
(04-14-2021, 04:30 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know it's getting more prevalent?
Statistically, it's being reported more.
Is that conclusive evidence that it's getting more prevalent? Or is it just being reported more? Has anyone ever actually measured it?
(04-14-2021, 05:39 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It appears he was looking for a safe area to pull over. That is the responsible thing to do. If I was in his situation I'd do the same exact thing. I don't wanna get myself or anyone else killed, because I pulled over in a dangerous spot. He was not being uncooperative at all. If he was trying to flee, he never would've stopped at all or he would have ran. We see those types of videos all the time. This was different. He did neither. That is evident in the video. They won't even tell him why they were pulling him over. These are just "amped up" cops looking to assert their authority on someone without justification. That's what happens when you put people with personality disorders in positions of power. The power goes to their heads and you get incidents like this. I truly believe police or other professions that allow you to use deadly force, should make potential employees go through very stringent psychological evaluations before they put you out in the field. I truly don't believe this cop would've passed such an evaluation based upon his actions in this video.
Statistically, it's being reported more.
Is that conclusive evidence that it's getting more prevalent? Or is it just being reported more? Has anyone ever actually measured it?
Based on it being reported more, I think it's reasonable to assume it is more prevalent. That's basically the only way we can measure these things. Let's not get "ticky tacky" here. I'm sure a lot of these incidents might go unreported as well.
(04-14-2021, 03:45 PM)Jamies_fried_chicken Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 01:23 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]And he has been fired, as he should have been. Cops are just people, and just like all people, there are good ones and bad ones. I get the feeling you want to lump all cops into the bad category. Is that your aim with this post?
I would like to assume im a rational thinking person who know (personally) there are amazing cops out there who are grossly underpaid but still put their lives on the line, and are ethical. I support those policemen by buying them their favorite beer, detail their car (see my post in the flyin thread) or showing them thanks.
On the other hand there are cops who date underage girls, abuse their spouse and take advantage of the law and abuse it. I hold them just as accountable as I do with any individual.
You are correct with your first comment. I would guess that 99% of police officers out there are ethical and will do the right thing.
Regarding the second part of your comment, I would suggest that part of the problem is not "training" for police officers, rather it's "coping skills" and mental health. Speaking as a former law enforcement officer myself, I can tell you that the job is extremely stressful and these officers see way more awful things than what is often reported. It's not so much the "dating underage girls" thing it's more the "abuse their spouse" and "abuse of the law" that I'm talking about.
I have a couple of personal friends that I met when I served that ended up taking their own life because they couldn't cope with what they had to see and deal with daily. I know of one other that was arrested and served time for his "abuse of power" because he "went over the top".
Cops are human. The incidents "reported" by the media are merely a small sliver of the day (or night) of the police officer. The media doesn't report on the fact that an officer had to assist with extracting the human remains of a person in a car crash that burned (I had to do that). The media doesn't report on the officer that has to inform a mother that her high school aged (just graduated) son was killed in a car crash (I had to do that). I could go on and on. I left law enforcement because it became too stressful for me.
People, aided by the media are focused too much on the "bad" things that police officers sometimes do. Everything from the stupid "knee jerk" reactions by some on the far left call for "banning" or "defunding" the police and ignore the real problem. The real problem is over-worked police officers and the lack of mental health/coping help.
(04-14-2021, 05:43 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 03:45 PM)Jamies_fried_chicken Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to assume im a rational thinking person who know (personally) there are amazing cops out there who are grossly underpaid but still put their lives on the line, and are ethical. I support those policemen by buying them their favorite beer, detail their car (see my post in the flyin thread) or showing them thanks.
On the other hand there are cops who date underage girls, abuse their spouse and take advantage of the law and abuse it. I hold them just as accountable as I do with any individual.
You are correct with your first comment. I would guess that 99% of police officers out there are ethical and will do the right thing.
Regarding the second part of your comment, I would suggest that part of the problem is not "training" for police officers, rather it's "coping skills" and mental health. Speaking as a former law enforcement officer myself, I can tell you that the job is extremely stressful and these officers see way more awful things than what is often reported. It's not so much the "dating underage girls" thing it's more the "abuse their spouse" and "abuse of the law" that I'm talking about.
I have a couple of personal friends that I met when I served that ended up taking their own life because they couldn't cope with what they had to see and deal with daily. I know of one other that was arrested and served time for his "abuse of power" because he "went over the top".
Cops are human. The incidents "reported" by the media are merely a small sliver of the day (or night) of the police officer. The media doesn't report on the fact that an officer had to assist with extracting the human remains of a person in a car crash that burned (I had to do that). The media doesn't report on the officer that has to inform a mother that her high school aged (just graduated) son was killed in a car crash (I had to do that). I could go on and on. I left law enforcement because it became too stressful for me.
People, aided by the media are focused too much on the "bad" things that police officers sometimes do. Everything from the stupid "knee jerk" reactions by some on the far left call for "banning" or "defunding" the police and ignore the real problem. The real problem is over-worked police officers and the lack of mental health/coping help.
I agree 100%. I know I could never handle what cops have to see on a daily basis. Absolutely horrible, inhumane things. I have a couple friends that are cops and they are really good people who do their job to protect innocent people. How they have kept their cool and made it as long as they have, amazes me. They've told me stories that were absolutely horrifying and heart breaking. If I were in their position, I would've snapped and made it my "mission" to eliminate the "scum of the earth."
Most cops are genuinely good people who do their jobs well. It just that more people have access to cameras and video and the very small percentage of bad cops, are getting all the media coverage.
(04-14-2021, 05:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 04:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He ran from the cops for over a mile and then refused to get out of his car. As an uncooperative detainee had every reason to be afraid.
It appears he was looking for a safe area to pull over. That is the responsible thing to do. If I was in his situation I'd do the same exact thing. I don't wanna get myself or anyone else killed, because I pulled over in a dangerous spot. He was not being uncooperative at all. If he was trying to flee, he never would've stopped at all or he would have ran. We see those types of videos all the time. This was different. He did neither. That is evident in the video. They won't even tell him why they were pulling him over. These are just "amped up" cops looking to assert their authority on someone without justification. That's what happens when you put people with personality disorders in positions of power. The power goes to their heads and you get incidents like this. I truly believe police or other professions that allow you to use deadly force, should make potential employees go through very stringent psychological evaluations before they put you out in the field. I truly don't believe this cop would've passed such an evaluation based upon his actions in this video.
Regarding the first part in bold, refer to my prior comment.
Regarding the second part in bold, I can tell you from my experience (granted this was early 80's) I had to go through a psychological evaluation before I was even accepted into the academy. I assume that it's still a requirement today.
(04-14-2021, 05:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It appears he was looking for a safe area to pull over. That is the responsible thing to do. If I was in his situation I'd do the same exact thing. I don't wanna get myself or anyone else killed, because I pulled over in a dangerous spot. He was not being uncooperative at all. If he was trying to flee, he never would've stopped at all or he would have ran. We see those types of videos all the time. This was different. He did neither. That is evident in the video. They won't even tell him why they were pulling him over. These are just "amped up" cops looking to assert their authority on someone without justification. That's what happens when you put people with personality disorders in positions of power. The power goes to their heads and you get incidents like this. I truly believe police or other professions that allow you to use deadly force, should make potential employees go through very stringent psychological evaluations before they put you out in the field. I truly don't believe this cop would've passed such an evaluation based upon his actions in this video.
Regarding the first part in bold, refer to my prior comment.
Regarding the second part in bold, I can tell you from my experience (granted this was early 80's) I had to go through a psychological evaluation before I was even accepted into the academy. I assume that it's still a requirement today.
Maybe the military is different, but I worked with a guy on a river boat casino who was an army veteran. He told me he joined the Army, because he wanted to feel what it was like to shoot someone. He then told me how disappointed he was that he never got that chance. (He never got deployed.) I always wondered how no one saw his odd behavior and the way he talked? He basically told everyone this story. I guess I assumed the military and police departments used the same type of psychological exam. Apparently, I assumed wrong.
(04-14-2021, 05:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the first part in bold, refer to my prior comment.
Regarding the second part in bold, I can tell you from my experience (granted this was early 80's) I had to go through a psychological evaluation before I was even accepted into the academy. I assume that it's still a requirement today.
Maybe the military is different, but I worked with a guy on a river boat casino who was an army veteran. He told me he joined the Army, because he wanted to feel what it was like to shoot someone. He then told me how disappointed he was that he never got that chance. (He never got deployed.) I always wondered how no one saw his odd behavior and the way he talked? He basically told everyone this story. I guess I assumed the military and police departments used the same type of psychological exam. Apparently, I assumed wrong.
The military and the police are two different things (I served in both). The ultimate objective in the military is to kill the enemy. The objective of the police... not so much. Deadly force is pretty much the last means to "stop the action".
Just my .02. This reeks of BS. However, he was asked to get out of the car. Did not comply. He was calm, arms out the window and still a fuss. I’m not saying this guy deserves it whatsoever. The ONLY thing he didn’t do was get out when asked. I didn’t read the full article but also don’t know why he was stopped in the first place. Seems like two idiots pulling over a guy for a routine stop and having a power trip. You’d think these cops would also be aware of the microscope they’re under these days. I also feel this wouldn’t be an issue or over the internet if the man was white.that’s my thoughts
(04-14-2021, 05:43 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 03:45 PM)Jamies_fried_chicken Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to assume im a rational thinking person who know (personally) there are amazing cops out there who are grossly underpaid but still put their lives on the line, and are ethical. I support those policemen by buying them their favorite beer, detail their car (see my post in the flyin thread) or showing them thanks.
On the other hand there are cops who date underage girls, abuse their spouse and take advantage of the law and abuse it. I hold them just as accountable as I do with any individual.
You are correct with your first comment. I would guess that 99% of police officers out there are ethical and will do the right thing.
Regarding the second part of your comment, I would suggest that part of the problem is not "training" for police officers, rather it's "coping skills" and mental health. Speaking as a former law enforcement officer myself, I can tell you that the job is extremely stressful and these officers see way more awful things than what is often reported. It's not so much the "dating underage girls" thing it's more the "abuse their spouse" and "abuse of the law" that I'm talking about.
I have a couple of personal friends that I met when I served that ended up taking their own life because they couldn't cope with what they had to see and deal with daily. I know of one other that was arrested and served time for his "abuse of power" because he "went over the top".
Cops are human. The incidents "reported" by the media are merely a small sliver of the day (or night) of the police officer. The media doesn't report on the fact that an officer had to assist with extracting the human remains of a person in a car crash that burned (I had to do that). The media doesn't report on the officer that has to inform a mother that her high school aged (just graduated) son was killed in a car crash (I had to do that). I could go on and on. I left law enforcement because it became too stressful for me.
People, aided by the media are focused too much on the "bad" things that police officers sometimes do. Everything from the stupid "knee jerk" reactions by some on the far left call for "banning" or "defunding" the police and ignore the real problem. The real problem is over-worked police officers and the lack of mental health/coping help.
I couldn't agree more. Thank you for posting this. Like many people, cops could use better support systems.
At the same time, cops who cross the line have to be held accountable. That's part of the support system. The intervention doesn't have to be negative, unless an innocent person dies of course.
In light of all that, though, do you oppose involving social workers in more emergency calls?
Eh, that cop was on a power trip. He probably had a difficult encounter recently and was projecting that on this other dude. Some cops just can't stand to have their authority questioned. If it were me, though, I would have complied. That cop was an [BLEEP], though. Reminded me of Farva from Super Troopers.
(04-14-2021, 06:08 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the military is different, but I worked with a guy on a river boat casino who was an army veteran. He told me he joined the Army, because he wanted to feel what it was like to shoot someone. He then told me how disappointed he was that he never got that chance. (He never got deployed.) I always wondered how no one saw his odd behavior and the way he talked? He basically told everyone this story. I guess I assumed the military and police departments used the same type of psychological exam. Apparently, I assumed wrong.
The military and the police are two different things (I served in both). The ultimate objective in the military is to kill the enemy. The objective of the police... not so much. Deadly force is pretty much the last means to "stop the action".
Agreed, but I thought they would conduct the psychological exams the same way. In either case, you wouldn't want a psychopath with a superiority complex and a lust for blood, even in the military. You never know when someone like this could snap and turn on his own people.
(04-14-2021, 06:10 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just my .02. This reeks of BS. However, he was asked to get out of the car. Did not comply. He was calm, arms out the window and still a fuss. I’m not saying this guy deserves it whatsoever. The ONLY thing he didn’t do was get out when asked. I didn’t read the full article but also don’t know why he was stopped in the first place. Seems like two idiots pulling over a guy for a routine stop and having a power trip. You’d think these cops would also be aware of the microscope they’re under these days. I also feel this wouldn’t be an issue or over the internet if the man was white.that’s my thoughts
Agreed. At least where I live, when white people are arrested they get no sympathy from other white people. We feel they deserved it, no matter the circumstances. They must've been guilty of something. No questions asked. It's just not like that in the black community. It's an entirely different mindset.
(04-14-2021, 07:18 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:43 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]You are correct with your first comment. I would guess that 99% of police officers out there are ethical and will do the right thing.
Regarding the second part of your comment, I would suggest that part of the problem is not "training" for police officers, rather it's "coping skills" and mental health. Speaking as a former law enforcement officer myself, I can tell you that the job is extremely stressful and these officers see way more awful things than what is often reported. It's not so much the "dating underage girls" thing it's more the "abuse their spouse" and "abuse of the law" that I'm talking about.
I have a couple of personal friends that I met when I served that ended up taking their own life because they couldn't cope with what they had to see and deal with daily. I know of one other that was arrested and served time for his "abuse of power" because he "went over the top".
Cops are human. The incidents "reported" by the media are merely a small sliver of the day (or night) of the police officer. The media doesn't report on the fact that an officer had to assist with extracting the human remains of a person in a car crash that burned (I had to do that). The media doesn't report on the officer that has to inform a mother that her high school aged (just graduated) son was killed in a car crash (I had to do that). I could go on and on. I left law enforcement because it became too stressful for me.
People, aided by the media are focused too much on the "bad" things that police officers sometimes do. Everything from the stupid "knee jerk" reactions by some on the far left call for "banning" or "defunding" the police and ignore the real problem. The real problem is over-worked police officers and the lack of mental health/coping help.
I couldn't agree more. Thank you for posting this. Like many people, cops could use better support systems.
At the same time, cops who cross the line have to be held accountable. That's part of the support system. The intervention doesn't have to be negative, unless an innocent person dies of course.
In light of all that, though, do you oppose involving social workers in more emergency calls?
Social workers are completely understaffed, underpaid and overworked. Adding something else to their plate is ridiculous! We see so many child abuse cases and child murders, because social workers have such a large case load that they can't get to regular welfare checks on the kids they already have and now people want to get them involved in an entirely different set of calls? It's just "stealing from Peter, to pay Paul."
(04-14-2021, 08:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 07:18 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I couldn't agree more. Thank you for posting this. Like many people, cops could use better support systems.
At the same time, cops who cross the line have to be held accountable. That's part of the support system. The intervention doesn't have to be negative, unless an innocent person dies of course.
In light of all that, though, do you oppose involving social workers in more emergency calls?
Social workers are completely understaffed, underpaid and overworked. Adding something else to their plate is ridiculous! We see so many child abuse cases and child murders, because social workers have such a large case load that they can't get to regular welfare checks on the kids they already have and now people want to get them involved in an entirely different set of calls? It's just "stealing from Peter, to pay Paul."
Long term, I think we need a lot more social workers.
And the ones that work for the government also need to start a buddy/partner system like cops often use for their difficult calls.
(04-14-2021, 08:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 08:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Social workers are completely understaffed, underpaid and overworked. Adding something else to their plate is ridiculous! We see so many child abuse cases and child murders, because social workers have such a large case load that they can't get to regular welfare checks on the kids they already have and now people want to get them involved in an entirely different set of calls? It's just "stealing from Peter, to pay Paul."
Long term, I think we need a lot more social workers.
And the ones that work for the government also need to start a buddy/partner system like cops often use for their difficult calls.
How? With what they are currently being paid and asked to do, less and less people are going into the field. The job is just too stressful for the low paying salaries they are given. They'd basically have to double the current salaries of social workers to lure people into the profession.
(04-14-2021, 05:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:51 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the first part in bold, refer to my prior comment.
Regarding the second part in bold, I can tell you from my experience (granted this was early 80's) I had to go through a psychological evaluation before I was even accepted into the academy. I assume that it's still a requirement today.
Maybe the military is different, but I worked with a guy on a river boat casino who was an army veteran. He told me he joined the Army, because he wanted to feel what it was like to shoot someone. He then told me how disappointed he was that he never got that chance. (He never got deployed.) I always wondered how no one saw his odd behavior and the way he talked? He basically told everyone this story. I guess I assumed the military and police departments used the same type of psychological exam. Apparently, I assumed wrong.
The military doesn't require psychological exams for recruits and not everyone who serves/served is like your former coworker. I was in the Army and certainly never met anyone like that. There were folks who would do their job if and when it was required, but no one was looking for a fight but I was out of active duty before 9/11. Maybe folks were looking after that happened. Guys who really do feel that way generally don't talk about it, they just do it. There are some who are wired a bit different though.
(04-14-2021, 10:54 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2021, 05:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the military is different, but I worked with a guy on a river boat casino who was an army veteran. He told me he joined the Army, because he wanted to feel what it was like to shoot someone. He then told me how disappointed he was that he never got that chance. (He never got deployed.) I always wondered how no one saw his odd behavior and the way he talked? He basically told everyone this story. I guess I assumed the military and police departments used the same type of psychological exam. Apparently, I assumed wrong.
The military doesn't require psychological exams for recruits and not everyone who serves/served is like your former coworker. I was in the Army and certainly never met anyone like that. There were folks who would do their job if and when it was required, but no one was looking for a fight but I was out of active duty before 9/11. Maybe folks were looking after that happened. Guys who really do feel that way generally don't talk about it, they just do it. There are some who are wired a bit different though.
I really think they should have a psychological exam before entry. That guy I worked with needed to be weeded out. He didn't last long at the riverboat job either. He certainly did not like taking orders and thought he knew how to run things better than the supervisors and would tell them so. He had a real problem with authority.