04-16-2021, 02:10 PM
04-16-2021, 02:23 PM
Lol
04-16-2021, 02:32 PM
They are really wanting to unite all white people... If these dorks thought we were united before, keep up this BS.
04-16-2021, 02:35 PM
There's that white privilege everyone's always whining about.
04-16-2021, 03:27 PM
(04-16-2021, 02:10 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]And the Governor of Utah is A OK with it.
https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-utah...ips-racist
Wow.
04-16-2021, 03:33 PM
The Jazz are like the "whitest " franchise in NBA history too, lol.
04-16-2021, 03:37 PM
The white people in Utah should stop spending money on the Jazz then. I’m sure that won’t hurt them at all considering how multicultural Utah is...
04-16-2021, 03:41 PM
I'm just wondering how Mikesez is going to spin this as not being racist.
04-17-2021, 06:38 AM
It's an interesting question. It is a private company doing what they want with their own money. There are a lot of scholarships that are targeted to certain people and exclude other people. A lot of them are targeted at minorities. There is a scholarship for people of Irish descent. There are scholarships for people of Asian heritage. There are scholarships for people of British heritage.
I think the only problem they have is a potential PR problem if white people resent being excluded. At that point, it's a business decision.
If I wanted to rake through the internet in order to find stuff to get pissed off about, it's shooting fish in a barrel.
I think the only problem they have is a potential PR problem if white people resent being excluded. At that point, it's a business decision.
If I wanted to rake through the internet in order to find stuff to get pissed off about, it's shooting fish in a barrel.
04-17-2021, 06:49 AM
(04-16-2021, 02:32 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]They are really wanting to unite all white people... If these dorks thought we were united before, keep up this BS.
I get the feeling you're the one that wants to unite all white people.
04-17-2021, 07:22 AM
I don't really have a problem with the policy. I don't think it's ideal, but there are already many charities designed to help persons of color, so what's another one? If people don't want to support the Jazz, that's on them, but, imo, this is small fish compared to what's going on in other places.
As for Ronster's remark, he's correct. I bet if I went through our search history, you would find me posting this same sentiment about 4 years ago. I phrased it differently, but the point is the same. If white people start feeling attacked, they will also begin associating by identity, and it will cause ACTUAL widespread racism. This anti-racism thing we are flirting with is going to be a disaster. Especially if you understand how leftists view power.
As for Ronster's remark, he's correct. I bet if I went through our search history, you would find me posting this same sentiment about 4 years ago. I phrased it differently, but the point is the same. If white people start feeling attacked, they will also begin associating by identity, and it will cause ACTUAL widespread racism. This anti-racism thing we are flirting with is going to be a disaster. Especially if you understand how leftists view power.
04-17-2021, 07:27 AM
(04-17-2021, 07:22 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't really have a problem with the policy. I don't think it's ideal, but there are already many charities designed to help persons of color, so what's another one? If people don't want to support the Jazz, that's on them, but, imo, this is small fish compared to what's going on in other places.
As for Ronster's remark, he's correct. I bet if I went through our search history, you would find me posting this same sentiment about 4 years ago. I phrased it differently, but the point is the same. If white people start feeling attacked, they will also begin associating by identity, and it will cause ACTUAL widespread racism. This anti-racism thing we are flirting with is going to be a disaster. Especially if you understand how leftists view power.
I agree with part of what you say there, and it's one of the reasons I oppose affirmative action programs- they are a lightning rod for white resentment. In that way, they are very counter-productive.
04-17-2021, 07:37 AM
Here's a good "IS IT RACIST" test.
If the Utah Jazz created a scholarship program and specifically excluded black kids.... is it racist.
It is?
Well then this is too.
If the Utah Jazz created a scholarship program and specifically excluded black kids.... is it racist.
It is?
Well then this is too.
04-17-2021, 08:19 AM
(04-17-2021, 07:37 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a good "IS IT RACIST" test.
If the Utah Jazz created a scholarship program and specifically excluded black kids.... is it racist.
It is?
Well then this is too.
Maybe so, but I would point out that there are hundreds of scholarship programs that are based on ethnicity, including ones that would exclude black people. Some of them exclude either men or women.
Scholarships based on ethnicity
04-17-2021, 11:21 AM
(04-17-2021, 07:37 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a good "IS IT RACIST" test.
If the Utah Jazz created a scholarship program and specifically excluded black kids.... is it racist.
It is?
Well then this is too.
Simply reversing a policy, or substituting a specific ethnicity or gender is always a great test. Yes, this program is blatantly racist, yet hose clamoring for inclusion go silent when the racism is directed against whites.
If the program specifically excluded black kids, there would already be demands for boycotts and sponsors would be running for cover.
04-17-2021, 11:48 AM
A scholarship program helps some people and hurts no one.
As long as no one is hurt, no one can really complain, right?
Of course, at the extreme, if all scholarship programs excluded a certain race, that would be a big problem. But that's not where we are.
As long as no one is hurt, no one can really complain, right?
Of course, at the extreme, if all scholarship programs excluded a certain race, that would be a big problem. But that's not where we are.
04-17-2021, 12:33 PM
If scholarship programs want to target gender or ethnicity, I have no problem with it. My question is where does it end? If 20 years from now there is a less-than-desired increase of women or POC in STEM programs and professions, or military/police/firefighters, etc, will systemic privilege still be the culprit? Or will culture and predisposition finally be examined as an influence?
Two examples:
Charles Barkley cites his visits to schools and the overwhelming majority of black kids who want to become musicians or athletes when they grow up as opposed to white kids who want to be scientists or engineers. That's culture at work and can be changed.
The other is my experience with the military. The overwhelming majority of those working in technical/mechanical fields are white men along with a large representation of Hispanic men. Call me sexist if you wish, but three decades of experience in this field has proven to me that most women aren't interested in hands-on technical professions.
I remember an occasion when the ship I was on was finishing a lengthy rework and repair schedule. The ship workers had left a triwall of various leftover tools and machine parts in the hangar bay for anyone to pick and choose from (I still have a tap and die set). While there were plenty of women onboard, only the men were digging through it for hidden treasures. While standing next to the XO, who was picking through it as well, he commented "It's a guy thing." That's predisposition.
So whatever it takes to finally put this privilege and bias assertion to bed, let it happen. But if they do not get the utopian results they wish, perhaps the argument will turn inwards toward human nature. Somehow I doubt it, though.
Two examples:
Charles Barkley cites his visits to schools and the overwhelming majority of black kids who want to become musicians or athletes when they grow up as opposed to white kids who want to be scientists or engineers. That's culture at work and can be changed.
The other is my experience with the military. The overwhelming majority of those working in technical/mechanical fields are white men along with a large representation of Hispanic men. Call me sexist if you wish, but three decades of experience in this field has proven to me that most women aren't interested in hands-on technical professions.
I remember an occasion when the ship I was on was finishing a lengthy rework and repair schedule. The ship workers had left a triwall of various leftover tools and machine parts in the hangar bay for anyone to pick and choose from (I still have a tap and die set). While there were plenty of women onboard, only the men were digging through it for hidden treasures. While standing next to the XO, who was picking through it as well, he commented "It's a guy thing." That's predisposition.
So whatever it takes to finally put this privilege and bias assertion to bed, let it happen. But if they do not get the utopian results they wish, perhaps the argument will turn inwards toward human nature. Somehow I doubt it, though.
04-17-2021, 04:03 PM
(04-17-2021, 11:48 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]A scholarship program helps some people and hurts no one.
As long as no one is hurt, no one can really complain, right?
Of course, at the extreme, if all scholarship programs excluded a certain race, that would be a big problem. But that's not where we are.
Does denial of membership based on race or gender actually hurt anyone? Do those individuals have a right to complain?
Are you saying a little discrimination is ok?
04-17-2021, 04:26 PM
It's private charity, so I don't personally believe it's racial discrimination. I understand that it's discriminatory, and I also get that the discriminating factor is race (to a degree), but it's not rooted in bigotry. They just are trying to correct what they assume to be is an in justice.
If you wanted to help out your neighbor, but no one else, that's a form of discrimination, right? You might know your neighbor and his needs and feel like he's gotten a bad rap, whereas you don't feel or care about your other neighbors. That doesn't mean you hate your other neighbors. The people in charge of the Jazz feel like minorities have had an unfair shake and want to give something specifically to them. I don't think that's racist. Are their poor whites? Certainly. That's not really the problem the Jazz are trying to solve, though. I think this is different than affirmative action, and think the federal government should probably refrain from making similar choices.
If you wanted to help out your neighbor, but no one else, that's a form of discrimination, right? You might know your neighbor and his needs and feel like he's gotten a bad rap, whereas you don't feel or care about your other neighbors. That doesn't mean you hate your other neighbors. The people in charge of the Jazz feel like minorities have had an unfair shake and want to give something specifically to them. I don't think that's racist. Are their poor whites? Certainly. That's not really the problem the Jazz are trying to solve, though. I think this is different than affirmative action, and think the federal government should probably refrain from making similar choices.
04-17-2021, 06:31 PM
(04-17-2021, 04:03 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ](04-17-2021, 11:48 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]A scholarship program helps some people and hurts no one.
As long as no one is hurt, no one can really complain, right?
Of course, at the extreme, if all scholarship programs excluded a certain race, that would be a big problem. But that's not where we are.
Does denial of membership based on race or gender actually hurt anyone? Do those individuals have a right to complain?
Are you saying a little discrimination is ok?
In certain areas yes, a little bit of discrimination makes sense. It's not like there's only one or two organizations in salt lake City that offer scholarships. There are many. Hundreds. If a few of them discriminate, it harms no one.
On the other hand, if you're talking about things like subdivisions or universities or country clubs, there aren't as many of those. Those kinds of larger institutions could really hurt the community as a whole if they choose to discriminate.