Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(06-21-2021, 12:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 09:56 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The rule is we shouldn't be citing the one example where a mid-20th pick of the draft not immediately replacing an obvious HOF QB to justify the notion that a top pick is your odds-on favorite to start from day one.

The rule is that more often than not, teams that are taking a QB early are doing so for a reason.

I am not dumping on Minshew; But from the owner on down, every statement this offseason has been that what we've had wasn't enough. It was time to reset, be new, improve. I'm saying that in order for Minshew starting over TLaw in week one to be plausible, TLaw is going to either have to be hurt or terribly unprepared for the job.

Teams are taking a  QB early  for a reason but it doesnt mean you have to start them week 1.  Are tou saying Mahomes, Mayfield, Tua etc. were just unprepared for the job?

By all accounts, they were less prepared than Lawrence is/will be. 

It just comes down to which player the coach thinks gives the team the best chance to win. 

Based on what I've seen from Minshew the past two years, if Minshew wins the start, then hundreds of talent evaluators and sports analysts all REALLY screwed up on their assessment of Trevor Lawrence in concert with one another.

To be honest, I expected Minshew to be the starter on Week 1 regardless of Trevor's ability/readiness.

The best and most recent comparison we have to compare this with is the 2012 Andrew Luck rookie season.

• Andrew Luck was considered the hottest prospect since Manning and the colts went 2-14 to get the chance to draft him
  
• Lawrence is considered the hottest prospect since Luck and the Jags went 1-15 to get the chance to draft him. 
  

Luck started right away as a rookie and the 2-14 colts went to 11-5 during his rookie campaign.

I am not a Lawrence guy. I like Zach Wilson and I would have gone that way. We'll see. Early Jet reports are Wilson is lighting it up.

(06-21-2021, 03:46 PM)CTEisREAL Wrote: [ -> ]I am not a Lawrence guy. I like Zach Wilson and I would have gone that way. We'll see. Early Jet reports are Wilson is lighting it up.

But I think the issue with Lawrence, if there was one, would be low ceiling instead of low floor. He's about as polished and NFL-ready as a draft pick can be. He's been groomed (Peyton-like) since high school and has all the mechanics and form and size to be an early bloomer. He may be lacking that additional level (that you can't really know is there until game experience).

I think it would be a bad sign if he's backing up Minshew to start the season.

(06-21-2021, 12:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 12:47 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Teams are taking a  QB early  for a reason but it doesnt mean you have to start them week 1.  Are tou saying Mahomes, Mayfield, Tua etc. were just unprepared for the job?

By all accounts, they were less prepared than Lawrence is/will be. 

It just comes down to which player the coach thinks gives the team the best chance to win. 

Based on what I've seen from Minshew the past two years, if Minshew wins the start, then hundreds of talent evaluators and sports analysts all REALLY screwed up on their assessment of Trevor Lawrence in concert with one another.

Minshew was pretty good before the hand injury.  Went 7-7 his rookie year.  Last year he went 19/20 with 3 TDs in his first game and looked good in week 2 then hurt his hand.  If Minshew is named starter week 1 i dont think its anything bad on TLaw just like the guys mentioned above, was nothing bad on them because they didnt start week 1.ill be happy with either and regardless i know Trevor is the franchise

(06-21-2021, 03:52 PM)Race Bannon Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 03:46 PM)CTEisREAL Wrote: [ -> ]I am not a Lawrence guy.  I like Zach Wilson and I would have gone that way.  We'll see.  Early Jet reports are Wilson is lighting it up.

But I think the issue with Lawrence, if there was one, would be low ceiling instead of low floor.  He's about as polished and NFL-ready as a draft pick can be.  He's been groomed (Peyton-like) since high school and has all the mechanics and form and size to be an early bloomer.  He may be lacking that additional level (that you can't really know is there until game experience).

I think it would be a bad sign if he's backing up Minshew to start the season.

I dont see how you get that, i think he has the highest ceiling out of them all

(06-21-2021, 04:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 03:52 PM)Race Bannon Wrote: [ -> ]But I think the issue with Lawrence, if there was one, would be low ceiling instead of low floor.  He's about as polished and NFL-ready as a draft pick can be.  He's been groomed (Peyton-like) since high school and has all the mechanics and form and size to be an early bloomer.  He may be lacking that additional level (that you can't really know is there until game experience).

I think it would be a bad sign if he's backing up Minshew to start the season.

I see how you get that, i think he has the highest ceiling out of them all

I actually do, too. I'm just saying he can't possibly have a low floor -- he's not a project, there are no questions about his toolkit. The only question is how good he can be (the top end). So I think he is the type to start as a rookie.

We have yet to see how the kid (Lawrence) performs in pads, in "real speed" and in an actual NFL game.  All we have are "touchdowns" in underwear practice not at full speed and with no real defense in his face.  This might be a case where preseason games might actually show us something.

As far as I'm concerned, Gardner should be considered the starting quarterback until Lawrence earns the spot.  I think the team would be smart to hold on to him for another season.  He has some trade value now, but if he ends up starting and plays "lights out" he would be more valuable as a trade candidate.  He's still on a rookie salary.

(06-21-2021, 05:45 PM)Race Bannon Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 04:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I see dont how you get that, i think he has the highest ceiling out of them all

I actually do, too.  I'm just saying he can't possibly have a low floor -- he's not a project, there are no questions about his toolkit.  The only question is how good he can be (the top end).  So I think he is the type to start as a rookie.

I think he is too, we also have 9ne of the best back up QBs which is a nice luxury to have

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(06-21-2021, 05:59 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]We have yet to see how the kid (Lawrence) performs in pads, in "real speed" and in an actual NFL game.  All we have are "touchdowns" in underwear practice not at full speed and with no real defense in his face.  This might be a case where preseason games might actually show us something.

As far as I'm concerned, Gardner should be considered the starting quarterback until Lawrence earns the spot.  I think the team would be smart to hold on to him for another season.  He has some trade value now, but if he ends up starting and plays "lights out" he would be more valuable as a trade candidate.  He's still on a rookie salary.

It should be an open competition imo

(06-21-2021, 06:00 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It should be an open competition imo

I've said that from the start.  Many on the other hand think that the starting position should be "given" to Lawrence because of his draft position.  He may be a #1 overall pick, but he's earned nothing in the NFL.

(06-21-2021, 06:11 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 06:00 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It should be an open competition imo

I've said that from the start.  Many on the other hand think that the starting position should be "given" to Lawrence because of his draft position.  He may be a #1 overall pick, but he's earned nothing in the NFL.

A lot of us seem to think he'll just win it very easily.

(06-21-2021, 07:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 06:11 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I've said that from the start.  Many on the other hand think that the starting position should be "given" to Lawrence because of his draft position.  He may be a #1 overall pick, but he's earned nothing in the NFL.

A lot of us seem to think he'll just win it very easily.

Thank you. Precisely correct.

No one has said “just hand him the job”. It’s just that many of us believe Lawrence is the better QB and will win the job.

(06-21-2021, 07:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 06:11 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I've said that from the start.  Many on the other hand think that the starting position should be "given" to Lawrence because of his draft position.  He may be a #1 overall pick, but he's earned nothing in the NFL.

A lot of us seem to think he'll just win it very easily.

This.

With minshew at the helm we went 1-15. I’m not saying give Lawrence the job, but it shouldn’t be that hard to earn. 

Should be easy to look like a good swimmer when the pool is really shallow.

(06-21-2021, 08:13 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 07:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of us seem to think he'll just win it very easily.

This.

With minshew at the helm we went 1-15. I’m not saying give Lawrence the job, but it shouldn’t be that hard to earn. 

Should be easy to look like a good swimmer when the pool is really shallow.

Which is why then the Jags would have to sell high on Lawrence in the case he does not... before the rest of the league realizes he was overhyped.

I think Trevor wins being both are learning a new offense. With Minshew healthy though it should be a fun battle to watch and wouldnt shock me one bit if he shows out in training camp and pre seasonal and question to start week 1

(06-21-2021, 08:13 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 07:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of us seem to think he'll just win it very easily.

This.

With minshew at the helm we went 1-15. I’m not saying give Lawrence the job, but it shouldn’t be that hard to earn. 

Should be easy to look like a good swimmer when the pool is really shallow.

He wasn't at the helm for the entire [BLEEP] show.

(06-21-2021, 09:09 PM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 08:13 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]This.

With minshew at the helm we went 1-15. I’m not saying give Lawrence the job, but it shouldn’t be that hard to earn. 

Should be easy to look like a good swimmer when the pool is really shallow.

He wasn't at the helm for the entire [BLEEP] show.

Like half the season and most of the games with fractures and torn ligaments in his throwing hand.

I love minshew. But if he was the answer, we wouldn’t have been in position to even acquire Lawrence.

(06-21-2021, 09:23 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2021, 09:09 PM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]He wasn't at the helm for the entire [BLEEP] show.

Like half the season and most of the games with fractures and torn ligaments in his throwing hand.

The wheels came off at least a couple of games before he actually injured his hand.