Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(06-22-2021, 10:08 AM)Preach Wrote: [ -> ]We have a quality TE. TEEEEEBBBBOOOWWWW

Kelce is pissed that he now has competition for his pro bowl roster spot.  Look for Kelce to demand a trade to the NFC.

I would love to see the team improve as the season goes on. Love to see Trevor do well. And I want Little to be the answer at LT.

This is the same broken theories that lead to...
Ignoring Ogdon because you sign Searcy
Trading away your draft for 2 unproven pass rushers
Skipping out in Big Ben
doubling down on Bortles
Having to win a locker room by picking up the missing QB Foles
Benching the Hot hand because you have Foles

I am looking for not doubling down on stupid. Then the This player discussions will apply. This is a historically bad franchise. I wish it wasn't so.

Go go future successes

(06-22-2021, 02:02 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s factor in that Robinson will have an even better year than 2020, Chark has another Pro Bowl season, Walker Little becomes a starter, and ETN and Lawrence play as expected.

For this thread we’re going to say the defense is average. Good games and average games with a couple of eggs.

Are we a playoff team with a quality TE?

Indy and Houston have major concerns. If we can stop Derrick Henry and maybe split that series. 

If we’re not considered a playoff team with a TE then there’s no reason to go get one. However if we are then that’s a different story. 

What is the consensus?

I can't speak for the consensus, but my opinion....no.  We are far from a playoff team by adding a TE.

We still have to manage to improve the T play.  Trevor Lawrence needs experience.  The new defense has to come together, starting with stopping the run.

The new guys in the secondary also need experience.

Are we improved?   Yes.  But from 1-15...not necessarily saying too much.

Should we not try to improve by adding a TE if possible?  Sure.

At this point, however, barring a cut, I don't see this team adding anything approaching a stud TE before next offseason.

---

(06-22-2021, 09:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If the defense wasn't complete trash last year this team could've won 5 or 6 games. If they are just not trash then we could be around .500 this year because I think the offense will be better, but I think the playoffs is out of reach for another year. A good complete TE probably doesn't change that much and the four guys ahead of Tebow are probably good enough for what we are this year.

So do you think the defense as a whole is trash this year like last, or are there parts that are trash and parts that are decent?

Will we play with more leads this year due to TL?  If so, will that make the defense any better or less of a liability?

---

(06-23-2021, 10:35 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I would love to see the team improve as the season goes on.  Love to see Trevor do well.  And I want Little to be the answer at LT.

Me too.

(06-23-2021, 10:54 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]This is the same broken theories that lead to...
Ignoring Ogdon because you sign Searcy
Trading away your draft for 2 unproven pass rushers
Skipping out in Big Ben
doubling down on Bortles
Having to win a locker room by picking up the missing QB Foles
Benching the Hot hand because you have Foles

I am looking for not doubling down on stupid. Then the This player discussions will apply. This is a historically bad franchise. I wish it wasn't so.

Go go future successes

But we still had a fantastic O-Line between 1996-1999 without Ogden.  We had NOTHING defensively after the 1995 season.

Skipping out on Big Ben...a year after drafting a QB 7th overall before the rookie wage scale?!?  That would have been salary cap hell.  Certainly you could argue that we should not have taken BL in 2003 then taken Big Ben in 2004, but once we took BL in 2003, you had to get players to support him.  The team promptly botched that effort with Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, and the likes of Ephraim Salaam at LT.  

Doubling down on Bortles was clearly not good.  The most the team should have done with him is offer the 5th year option to let him prove it again.  But I'm ultimately glad we did what we did with him because it led to us getting Trevor Lawrence.

(06-22-2021, 07:00 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]A quality TE is not going to make or break this team.

 I agree and I believe that is one reason we have not attempted to bring anyone in on a trade at this point.

(06-23-2021, 10:35 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I would love to see the team improve as the season goes on.  Love to see Trevor do well.  And I want Little to be the answer at LT.

You want to improve?
You would love to see Trevor do well?
You'd like to see Little be the answer at LT?

Anything else you'd like to add to your controversial post ?

You bet Bullseye good counter on some of my list. I understand. The Shack Harris era was bizzare. Do you think some of the picks were foisted on him?

(06-22-2021, 02:02 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s factor in that Robinson will have an even better year than 2020, Chark has another Pro Bowl season, Walker Little becomes a starter, and ETN and Lawrence play as expected.

For this thread we’re going to say the defense is average. Good games and average games with a couple of eggs.

Are we a playoff team with a quality TE?

Indy and Houston have major concerns. If we can stop Derrick Henry and maybe split that series. 

If we’re not considered a playoff team with a TE then there’s no reason to go get one. However if we are then that’s a different story. 

What is the consensus?

No.  Don't waste the cap space this year; wait until next year when we're actually ready to make a playoff run.

(06-23-2021, 11:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2021, 02:02 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s factor in that Robinson will have an even better year than 2020, Chark has another Pro Bowl season, Walker Little becomes a starter, and ETN and Lawrence play as expected.

For this thread we’re going to say the defense is average. Good games and average games with a couple of eggs.

Are we a playoff team with a quality TE?

Indy and Houston have major concerns. If we can stop Derrick Henry and maybe split that series. 

If we’re not considered a playoff team with a TE then there’s no reason to go get one. However if we are then that’s a different story. 

What is the consensus?

I can't speak for the consensus, but my opinion....no.  We are far from a playoff team by adding a TE.

We still have to manage to improve the T play.  Trevor Lawrence needs experience.  The new defense has to come together, starting with stopping the run.

The new guys in the secondary also need experience.

Are we improved?   Yes.  But from 1-15...not necessarily saying too much.

Should we not try to improve by adding a TE if possible?  Sure.

At this point, however, barring a cut, I don't see this team adding anything approaching a stud TE before next offseason.

---

(06-22-2021, 09:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]If the defense wasn't complete trash last year this team could've won 5 or 6 games. If they are just not trash then we could be around .500 this year because I think the offense will be better, but I think the playoffs is out of reach for another year. A good complete TE probably doesn't change that much and the four guys ahead of Tebow are probably good enough for what we are this year.

So do you think the defense as a whole is trash this year like last, or are there parts that are trash and parts that are decent?

Will we play with more leads this year due to TL?  If so, will that make the defense any better or less of a liability?

---

(06-23-2021, 10:35 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I would love to see the team improve as the season goes on.  Love to see Trevor do well.  And I want Little to be the answer at LT.

Me too.

I still think they wanted to go 34 last year but the loss of Woods and Gunter prevented that move. Adding RRH, Ward, and big man Malcolm Brown plus the scheme change makes this a better unit overall and I like what they've done there, but it's weird to think that the loss of Alualu might actually be the difference between very good and just good next season. I think the LBs will be a much improved unit with last year's ends playing OLB and Schobert with less ground to cover in the middle. Safety will definitely be better this season while CB most likely will be. Overall I think this unit could be top 18 or so and improvement on both sides of the ball will drive that upward movement.

(06-23-2021, 10:01 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2021, 02:02 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s factor in that Robinson will have an even better year than 2020, Chark has another Pro Bowl season, Walker Little becomes a starter, and ETN and Lawrence play as expected.

For this thread we’re going to say the defense is average. Good games and average games with a couple of eggs.

Are we a playoff team with a quality TE?

Indy and Houston have major concerns. If we can stop Derrick Henry and maybe split that series. 

If we’re not considered a playoff team with a TE then there’s no reason to go get one. However if we are then that’s a different story. 

What is the consensus?

No.  Don't waste the cap space this year; wait until next year when we're actually ready to make a playoff run.

I agree with the simplicity of this take. Exactly. Don’t expect Ertz or any other TE this year. Maybe even next year.

(06-22-2021, 04:47 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]The point of this conversation was to get the consensus as to why a TE this year is not important. I keep hearing guys say let’s go get Ertz. There’s really no reason.

We are the same team without a TE like Ertz.

We may be the same team in terms of wins and losses, but that's not what I'm looking for this year.  Sure, winning more would be nice - but the biggest thing for me this season will be the development of Lawrence and trying to determine if he is in fact going to be a true franchise QB.  A quality TE would certainly help Lawrence along in his development and give us a better picture of him as a QB than if we didn't have that quality TE.  

I think James O' is an average/good receiving TE, but after that we have 2 blocking TEs and 1 that has never played the position before.  I'd prefer to give Lawrence as many receiving options as possible, including a proven quality TE - even if it's a 1 year deal and we find someone else at the position next year.  That would help to set our new QB up for success, rather than having to wonder - "well what if he had a good TE to throw to in addition to the WRs and RBs"?

(06-24-2021, 12:13 PM)Dewboy01 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2021, 04:47 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]The point of this conversation was to get the consensus as to why a TE this year is not important. I keep hearing guys say let’s go get Ertz. There’s really no reason.

We are the same team without a TE like Ertz.

We may be the same team in terms of wins and losses, but that's not what I'm looking for this year.  Sure, winning more would be nice - but the biggest thing for me this season will be the development of Lawrence and trying to determine if he is in fact going to be a true franchise QB.  A quality TE would certainly help Lawrence along in his development and give us a better picture of him as a QB than if we didn't have that quality TE.  

I think James O' is an average/good receiving TE, but after that we have 2 blocking TEs and 1 that has never played the position before.  I'd prefer to give Lawrence as many receiving options as possible, including a proven quality TE - even if it's a 1 year deal and we find someone else at the position next year.  That would help to set our new QB up for success, rather than having to wonder - "well what if he had a good TE to throw to in addition to the WRs and RBs"?

We have O'Shag, Manhertz, Farrell, Davis, Ellefson, and that other guy as the 6th player on the chart. None of them are a player like Ertz even at his advanced age, and I'd rather have him than not.

(06-23-2021, 10:29 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2021, 10:01 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]No.  Don't waste the cap space this year; wait until next year when we're actually ready to make a playoff run.

I agree with the simplicity of this take. Exactly. Don’t expect Ertz or any other TE this year. Maybe even next year.

Hell, let's put off trying to acquire a receiving talent at TE indefinitely!  It's worked great for us so far! Amirite? 

Why even bother to try? Ever!? 
Let's just draft extra tackles from now on. [BLEEP] it.

(06-24-2021, 12:13 PM)Dewboy01 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2021, 04:47 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]The point of this conversation was to get the consensus as to why a TE this year is not important. I keep hearing guys say let’s go get Ertz. There’s really no reason.

We are the same team without a TE like Ertz.

We may be the same team in terms of wins and losses, but that's not what I'm looking for this year.  Sure, winning more would be nice - but the biggest thing for me this season will be the development of Lawrence and trying to determine if he is in fact going to be a true franchise QB.  A quality TE would certainly help Lawrence along in his development and give us a better picture of him as a QB than if we didn't have that quality TE.  

I think James O' is an average/good receiving TE, but after that we have 2 blocking TEs and 1 that has never played the position before.  I'd prefer to give Lawrence as many receiving options as possible, including a proven quality TE - even if it's a 1 year deal and we find someone else at the position next year.  That would help to set our new QB up for success, rather than having to wonder - "well what if he had a good TE to throw to in addition to the WRs and RBs"?

(06-24-2021, 01:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2021, 10:29 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with the simplicity of this take. Exactly. Don’t expect Ertz or any other TE this year. Maybe even next year.

Hell, let's put off trying to acquire a receiving talent at TE indefinitely!  It's worked great for us so far! Amirite? 

Why even bother to try? Ever!? 
Let's just draft extra tackles from now on. [BLEEP] it.

I want to see what we have this year before we go out and trade away picks for a TE. I still believe in Davis. O'Shag has proven effective if we can get him the ball and the rookie has already shown better pass catching abilities than thought when he was drafted.

(06-23-2021, 06:31 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]You bet Bullseye good counter on some of my list. I understand. The Shack Harris era was bizzare. Do you think some of the picks were foisted on him?

No conspiracy theories here on either side as far as I'm concerned.

None of the picks were forced or imposed on him, nor did Shack have any sort of racial agenda in making his picks.  The only person in the organization who ranked above him as far as decision making was concerned was Weaver, and based on his history as owner, he never interfered on the football side, other than paying/not paying players.  Weaver gave Shack Harris the final decision making power in case of any tie over JDR-a clear response to TC's one voice philosophy that grew so unpopular with fans here.  As for the racial agenda thing, TC brought David Garrard and Quinn Gray to the team.  BL was widely regarded as a top QB prospect at the time in 2003, and the fact Brady Quinn dropped so far in the draft in 2007 before Shack passed on him twice, and he wound up sucking mightily showed that based purely on the merits, Shack was right to pass on him.

He clearly botched the Reggie Williams and Matt Jones picks, and arguably botched the BL pick...all on his own.  All football based decisions.

On top of that, he was unable to find a credible LT.  Khalif Barnes was good his first year, maybe year and a half, then went downhill afterwards.  If your receivers were Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, a declining and addicted Jimmy Smith and Ernest Wilford, with Ephraim Salaam and an inconsistent Khalif Barnes, not many QBs would have succeeded under those circumstances. 

Those decisions were all on him, just as he gets credit for the picks from the second round on that were so successful.   There was once a theory that Gene Smith was responsible for those picks, but it's interesting that he was unable to replicate the quality of those picks in any round once he took over.  Even acknowledging the crapshoot nature of the draft, the fall off from Shack's picks from the 2nd round on to ALL of Gene Smith's picks was so dramatic, it defies the aforementioned theory.

(06-23-2021, 10:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2021, 11:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I can't speak for the consensus, but my opinion....no.  We are far from a playoff team by adding a TE.

We still have to manage to improve the T play.  Trevor Lawrence needs experience.  The new defense has to come together, starting with stopping the run.

The new guys in the secondary also need experience.

Are we improved?   Yes.  But from 1-15...not necessarily saying too much.

Should we not try to improve by adding a TE if possible?  Sure.

At this point, however, barring a cut, I don't see this team adding anything approaching a stud TE before next offseason.

---

So do you think the defense as a whole is trash this year like last, or are there parts that are trash and parts that are decent?

Will we play with more leads this year due to TL?  If so, will that make the defense any better or less of a liability?

---

Me too.

I still think they wanted to go 34 last year but the loss of Woods and Gunter prevented that move. Adding RRH, Ward, and big man Malcolm Brown plus the scheme change makes this a better unit overall and I like what they've done there, but it's weird to think that the loss of Alualu might actually be the difference between very good and just good next season. I think the LBs will be a much improved unit with last year's ends playing OLB and Schobert with less ground to cover in the middle. Safety will definitely be better this season while CB most likely will be. Overall I think this unit could be top 18 or so and improvement on both sides of the ball will drive that upward movement.

I agree the intent was to go 3-4 last year, but I'm not yet prepared to say the additions of the DL or the switch to a 3-4 will make this defense perform at a higher level than last year.  To me, for the most part, the DLs are largely unknown quantities. I see the DL more as the foundation of implementing the scheme, not so much as an absolute upgrade to dominance over last year's unit. I believe Josh Allen and Chaisson may be able to perform better in the 3-4 than they did last year, but to me, the ILBs are worrisome-Jack in particular-because I'm unsure if they can hold up against opposing guards.

Though it's hard to imagine the defense being any worse than it was last year, I hope we see the improvement you describe.

---

(06-24-2021, 12:13 PM)Dewboy01 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2021, 04:47 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]The point of this conversation was to get the consensus as to why a TE this year is not important. I keep hearing guys say let’s go get Ertz. There’s really no reason.

We are the same team without a TE like Ertz.

We may be the same team in terms of wins and losses, but that's not what I'm looking for this year.  Sure, winning more would be nice - but the biggest thing for me this season will be the development of Lawrence and trying to determine if he is in fact going to be a true franchise QB.  A quality TE would certainly help Lawrence along in his development and give us a better picture of him as a QB than if we didn't have that quality TE.  

I think James O' is an average/good receiving TE, but after that we have 2 blocking TEs and 1 that has never played the position before.  I'd prefer to give Lawrence as many receiving options as possible, including a proven quality TE - even if it's a 1 year deal and we find someone else at the position next year.  That would help to set our new QB up for success, rather than having to wonder - "well what if he had a good TE to throw to in addition to the WRs and RBs"?

I agree with this generally.

The one caveat I have is I am unsure how much the TE will be featured in the offense-assuming the offense is mostly Meyer's.

(06-24-2021, 01:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2021, 10:29 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with the simplicity of this take. Exactly. Don’t expect Ertz or any other TE this year. Maybe even next year.

Hell, let's put off trying to acquire a receiving talent at TE indefinitely!  It's worked great for us so far! Amirite? 

Why even bother to try? Ever!? 
Let's just draft extra tackles from now on. [BLEEP] it.

Historically, there aren't very many passers who have had a great deal of success without significant input from the TE position.  Clearly Warren Moon was the classic example since he produced his hall of fame career in the run-n-shoot.

Jim Kelly strikes me as another, though I'm sure some Bills fans might argue that Pete Metzelaars qualifies as a good TE.  I was never a huge fan of his.

But in just about ever instance since the 1978 rules changes, the best and most productive QBs had solid receiving threats at TE.

(06-24-2021, 02:38 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2021, 10:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I still think they wanted to go 34 last year but the loss of Woods and Gunter prevented that move. Adding RRH, Ward, and big man Malcolm Brown plus the scheme change makes this a better unit overall and I like what they've done there, but it's weird to think that the loss of Alualu might actually be the difference between very good and just good next season. I think the LBs will be a much improved unit with last year's ends playing OLB and Schobert with less ground to cover in the middle. Safety will definitely be better this season while CB most likely will be. Overall I think this unit could be top 18 or so and improvement on both sides of the ball will drive that upward movement.

I agree the intent was to go 3-4 last year, but I'm not yet prepared to say the additions of the DL or the switch to a 3-4 will make this defense perform at a higher level than last year.  To me, for the most part, the DLs are largely unknown quantities. I see the DL more as the foundation of implementing the scheme, not so much as an absolute upgrade to dominance over last year's unit. I believe Josh Allen and Chaisson may be able to perform better in the 3-4 than they did last year, but to me, the ILBs are worrisome-Jack in particular-because I'm unsure if they can hold up against opposing guards.

Though it's hard to imagine the defense being any worse than it was last year, I hope we see the improvement you describe.

---

(06-24-2021, 12:13 PM)Dewboy01 Wrote: [ -> ]We may be the same team in terms of wins and losses, but that's not what I'm looking for this year.  Sure, winning more would be nice - but the biggest thing for me this season will be the development of Lawrence and trying to determine if he is in fact going to be a true franchise QB.  A quality TE would certainly help Lawrence along in his development and give us a better picture of him as a QB than if we didn't have that quality TE.  

I think James O' is an average/good receiving TE, but after that we have 2 blocking TEs and 1 that has never played the position before.  I'd prefer to give Lawrence as many receiving options as possible, including a proven quality TE - even if it's a 1 year deal and we find someone else at the position next year.  That would help to set our new QB up for success, rather than having to wonder - "well what if he had a good TE to throw to in addition to the WRs and RBs"?

I agree with this generally.

The one caveat I have is I am unsure how much the TE will be featured in the offense-assuming the offense is mostly Meyer's.

I don't think the DL will be dominant, I just think they'll be a solid NFL-quality unit instead of the mess we had last year. I think Shaq Quarterman could be the fit at ILB, a thumper in the Levon Kirkland mold. He's a few pounds lighter right now than Kirkland his second year, but otherwise his measurables are similar. LK bulked up to over 270 by the end of his career though and I don't know that Quarterman can do that. I do think that we have too many 43 LBs though, we need to make a few changes there before next season if the 34 is going to stick.