(08-11-2021, 01:42 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2021, 01:36 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, but that's not what lead to Nazism and Fascism. Have you ever read any of Mussolini's writings? Obviously there are multiple factors, but it was specifically the communist revolutionaries that "banded" the disparate groups together in Italy, which is what Fascism means. Hitler took a lot of Mussolini's ideas and used them to help shape his influence in Germany. Everyone focuses on Nazism, but Fascism was the precursor. And yes, despite the claims from the left, Fascism is a leftist doctrine. It was the only way Mussolini determined he could root out communism from his country. Hitler liked his ideas, but also connected communism to the Jews (and that is not entirely without merit when you look at the big influencers).
But if it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles... Hitler never would have gained power. Period.
And the funny thing is no one understands why WWI even frigging happened. This is the best explanation, by far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEvuMhP2CuA
Honestly.. a group of moronic Serbians has dictated world history for over 100 years now...
That actually is a pretty decent simplified explanation of how WW1 started.
I've read several books in the last few months about it. The more I learn about it, the more I think WW1 is the most important event of the last 150 years. World War 1 destroyed the old order of Europe, triggered the Russian revolution, redrew the map of the middle east, and directly caused WW2. And the amazing thing is, it came up out of nowhere. No one expected it. But it directly caused the century of warfare and conflict that followed it.
If you study it, you can see why it happened. But no one at the time could seem to see what was coming, and no one seized what were multiple opportunities to stop it. Not only that, we still can't figure out who was to blame for what happened. It's not enough to say the guy who shot the Archduke caused it. He just lit the fuse.
Let's try to remember why we are talking about this in the first place. I was addressing why Hitler went after the libs and commies. When we are looking at Germany as a whole, obviously the Treaty of Versailles caused the conditions that caused suffering in Germany and created incentives for the people to rise up out of it. Any dictatorship could have been created by those conditions. However, it doesn't explain Nazism. The Communists were an easy target because they were causing so much internal strife in Germany AND they were the primary faction competing for power in Germany. You remove communism, and the anti-Semitism goes down by a decent margin in Germany. Italy didn't have this same problem, because the communist movement in Italy wasn't associated with the Jews like it was in Germany. But keep in mind, the Fascists were fighting against the communists in their own country, same with the Nazi's. That obstacle had to be dealt with first.
(08-11-2021, 02:05 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2021, 01:42 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]But if it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles... Hitler never would have gained power. Period.
And the funny thing is no one understands why WWI even frigging happened. This is the best explanation, by far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEvuMhP2CuA
Honestly.. a group of moronic Serbians has dictated world history for over 100 years now...
That actually is a pretty decent simplified explanation of how WW1 started.
I've read several books in the last few months about it. The more I learn about it, the more I think WW1 is the most important event of the last 150 years. World War 1 destroyed the old order of Europe, triggered the Russian revolution, redrew the map of the middle east, and directly caused WW2. And the amazing thing is, it came up out of nowhere. No one expected it. But it directly caused the century of warfare and conflict that followed it.
If you study it, you can see why it happened. But no one at the time could seem to see what was coming, and no one seized what were multiple opportunities to stop it. Not only that, we still can't figure out who was to blame for what happened. It's not enough to say the guy who shot the Archduke caused it. He just lit the fuse.
Man, WWI is such a complicated mess. I still haven't quite figured it out, though, I admit that I haven't put much effort into it.
"What happened to the war cry of Democrats: "My body, my choice"? It only applies to murdering babies, but it doesn't apply to dangerous experimental shots we don't want injected into our bodies."
(08-11-2021, 02:23 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2021, 02:05 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]That actually is a pretty decent simplified explanation of how WW1 started.
I've read several books in the last few months about it. The more I learn about it, the more I think WW1 is the most important event of the last 150 years. World War 1 destroyed the old order of Europe, triggered the Russian revolution, redrew the map of the middle east, and directly caused WW2. And the amazing thing is, it came up out of nowhere. No one expected it. But it directly caused the century of warfare and conflict that followed it.
If you study it, you can see why it happened. But no one at the time could seem to see what was coming, and no one seized what were multiple opportunities to stop it. Not only that, we still can't figure out who was to blame for what happened. It's not enough to say the guy who shot the Archduke caused it. He just lit the fuse.
Man, WWI is such a complicated mess. I still haven't quite figured it out, though, I admit that I haven't put much effort into it.
It was a horrifying and brutal war. Like Marty said, it was the catalyst to how the geopolitical world is shaped today.
Too lazy to read, I've been watching a lot of documentaries on it in the last few months. Right now I'm watching a multipart series of The Battle of the Somme. Talk about a meat grinder. Over 19,000 British soldiers KILLED on the first day, the majority of those before noon.
That's nuts. Generally, I gravitate towards philosophy. I tend to view history through that lens, so I often find myself learning history as it pertains to the zeitgeist of the cultures at the time. So much of WWII era was framed around philosophies, so I know way more about that period of time. I just had the basic introduction to WWI in college, and I've only occasionally picked up a book or documentary about the subject. It definitely has a lot of moving pieces. Which documentary are you watching. Sounds interesting.
(08-11-2021, 04:30 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]"What happened to the war cry of Democrats: "My body, my choice"? It only applies to murdering babies, but it doesn't apply to dangerous experimental shots we don't want injected into our bodies."
It's now the war cry of the right.
It's funny how quickly people were like "Yeah, The Nazis we're right for going after people I don't agree with."
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
(08-12-2021, 10:36 AM)Norman Mushari Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny how quickly people were like "Yeah, The Nazis we're right for going after people I don't agree with."
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Martin Niemöller
The same is true for the communists. It's almost like any totalitarian system is a terrible idea.