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Let's get this overwith....

1.  Coming into the season...in fact, as recently as last week, I thought defensive back could be a potential area of strength for us.  Tonight's performance gives me considerable doubt as to the veracity of that sentiment.  The team surrendered two deep TD passes, and at least one of them involved anther misplay of the ball by Campbell.  Griffin didn't look any better in that second TD.  Even Sidney Jones, who gave us some good play last year, had his moments where he looked silly.  This game is a reminder that the secondary, while completely revamped, was still part of a 1-15 team, and it will take time to come together.

2.  Understanding this is preseason and that teams hold things back and really don't game plan, watching the offense tonight was painful.  While I know Trevor Lawrence is going to have his rookie struggles, I was hoping performances like these would be minimized.  Like the secondary, this offense is part of a 1-15 season last year and the team will struggle.  The offense seems horribly disjointed.  We can't run the ball.  We don't try to run the ball.  (Egads!  I'm channeling Jim Mora!)  The word of the day:  lethargic!

3.  Getting back to the defensive performance, many fans would wonder why the defense did not blitz more under Wash.  When Ramsey and Bouye were in the secondary and Calais and Ngakoue were rushing the passer, you could argue there wasn't much need.  While I've noticed that some rushers were coming free, scheme changes and exotic blitzes do not mean your defense will be effective.  Though they feed off each other, the defense needs good CB play to get home on blitzes.

4.  The offensive line was, once again, offensive...and not in a good way.   Way too many hits on Trevor Lawrence.  Several instances where the line was overpowered, which was a continuation of last week.  I understand pass blocking requires offensive linemen to be passive, but that seems to happen quite a bit.  Are guys not using leverage?  What about the strength?  Once again, Jawaan Taylor had a catastrophic failure on that late 2nd quarter 3rd down sack.  He wasn't alone, as Bartch's guy got the sack on that play, but watch Jawaan Taylor on that play.  Once again, scary scary bad against a backup.

5.  Nice to see Taven Bryan play like he could actually find the ball on that screen.

6.  Since 2017, Josh Lambo has been one of our most consistent performers.  But so far this preseason, he has missed 2/3 FGs.  What gives

7.  Rookie Watch:

    A.  Trevor Lawrence-As I said above, took way too many hits.  For the first time, I saw him force a pass or two into double coverage on ill advised throws.  Also way off on a pass to Shenault in the end zone.  There were some good signs.  There were a couple of plays where he managed to step up nicely in the pocket.  He had a couple of decent throws.  But he looks like a rookie right now.  It seems like Minshew is making faster decisions....as if his internal clock is faster. Of course, that is to be expected considering e's going into his 3rd year while TL isn't.  Lawrence is a better prospect and should be a starter, but there are signs of rookie-itis.

     B.  Travis Etienne-had the one catch for three yards and hurt his foot.  This is NOT what I wanted to see.  Hopefully this is not a serious injury...nor par for the course for him.

     C.  Tyson Campbell-see above.  I have the feeling he will be isolated and targeted by opposing offensive coordinators and QBs all season long.  There's no point in covering a guy if you can't make a play on the ball. 


     D.  Walker Little-perhaps the one pleasant surprise of the night for me considering he got the start at LT.  Seemed to hold up decently, though there was that one pass rush were he got pushed back into TL.  I'm sure he has more work to do with his hands, but his was the one area of the OL I felt better about after this game.

     E.  Andre Cisco-Played but did not stand out to me.

     F.  Jay Tufele-got a good pass rush but a bad penalty.

     G.  Jordan Smith-Did not stand out to me

     H.  Luke Farrell-Had a good reception early in the game.

     I.  Jalen Camp-  Was targeted in the 3rd quarter.

8.  Back to the O-Line....inserting Walker Little in at LT is a possible way to improve it.  But that alone does not fix the OL.  Benching Jawaan Taylor is another.  I don't know why Cam Robinson did not play, but I hope he is placed in at RT.  At this point, I'd rather see him struggle to learn the position early and get better than to see Jawaan Taylor continue  as he has been.

9.  In Ben Stein's (Ferris Beuller's teacher) voice..  "Chaisson?  Chaisson...?  Chaisson...?

10.  Guys who did decently but will probably be cut:  Cotton, Cotrell, Ozigbo.

11.  Bottom line-This reminds me too much of Dallas in 1989.  Absolutely listless.  Seemingly lost in many ways.  I am trying not to overreact to preseason.  Honestly I am.  But this team has a long way to go.

     .
Nothing good to say about the game
Garnder Minshew looked like trash. Yea. He made quick decisions… to throw it to the other team.
My #1 takeaway is my god Tyson Campbell is straight garbage. Literally zero ball skills, absolutely ZERO.
Why do we ALWAYS overreact to how rookies play? Like I realize Campbell hasn't been great but IT'S TWO PRESEASON GAMES IN. We did the same thing with DJ Chark after his rookie season and will continue to do so over and over.

My goodness this place is overreaction city.
(08-23-2021, 11:15 PM)Bruuval Wrote: [ -> ]Garnder Minshew looked like trash. Yea. He made quick decisions… to throw it to the other team.

Yeah.  Any nfl qb can make quick premeditated decision 5 to 8 yard passes  but that doesn't move the chains and score TDs and it doesn't win much games.
Quick summary :

Jags played like trash the first 3 quarters then played better when the bums came in.
The splitting of QB reps better be over after tonight. Trevor needs all the 1st team reps going forward (should of had them from the start).

LT, LG and C were all backups and it showed. Little isn't ready to take over at LT. He should be in the future, but the left side of the line was a huge weak link tonight and got destroyed on multiple occasions.

I know ETN got hurt, but I don't understand why you draft somebody 25th overall, only to have him be the 3rd string running back. Especially when the 2nd RB is Hyde... Makes no sense, especially how they used them tonight (before ETN got hurt). One play they ran ETN straight into the back of the Center. Literally the next play they run a toss to Hyde.. Literally backwards of how they should be used, but ok.

We miss Chark's speed and the lack of a receiving TE continues to be woefully glaring.

Hopefully Marvin Jones' shoulder isn't hurt too bad.
I feel sorry for Trevor, no one to throw the ball too and an OC with no imagination; oh and no running game.
This team blows, as usual


But maybe it’s a sign letting us know the rest of the world is getting back to normal
WR was supposed to be somewhat of a strength for this team but for the second game now, it doesn't look like anyone can get open. 

I've yet to see this bigger, faster, stronger Shenault we've been hearing about. I hope Chark is ready for a big year when he heals.
(08-23-2021, 11:20 PM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we ALWAYS overreact to how rookies play? Like I realize Campbell hasn't been great but IT'S TWO PRESEASON GAMES IN. We did the same thing with DJ Chark after his rookie season and will continue to do so over and over.

My goodness this place is overreaction city.

Call it overreaction, but it was literally all over his scouting report that he can’t find the ball in the air. That’s all he did in college. It’s coming to fruition on the field. So he’s just going to magically find the ball in “real” games? Those 1 on 1 battles transition to real games, he’s getting exposed. Got to turn your damn head. Hoping he magically learns instincts.
(08-23-2021, 11:33 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-23-2021, 11:20 PM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we ALWAYS overreact to how rookies play? Like I realize Campbell hasn't been great but IT'S TWO PRESEASON GAMES IN. We did the same thing with DJ Chark after his rookie season and will continue to do so over and over.

My goodness this place is overreaction city.

Call it overreaction, but it was literally all over his scouting report that he can’t find the ball in the air. That’s all he did in college. It’s coming to fruition on the field. So he’s just going to magically find the ball in “real” games? Those 1 on 1 battles transition to real games, he’s getting exposed. Got to turn your damn head. Hoping he magically learns instincts.

Or just not-so-magically gets coached up over the next year or two.
(08-23-2021, 11:12 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Let's get this overwith....

1.  Coming into the season...in fact, as recently as last week, I thought defensive back could be a potential area of strength for us.  Tonight's performance gives me considerable doubt as to the veracity of that sentiment.  The team surrendered two deep TD passes, and at least one of them involved anther misplay of the ball by Campbell.  Griffin didn't look any better in that second TD.  Even Sidney Jones, who gave us some good play last year, had his moments where he looked silly.  This game is a reminder that the secondary, while completely revamped, was still part of a 1-15 team, and it will take time to come together.

2.  Understanding this is preseason and that teams hold things back and really don't game plan, watching the offense tonight was painful.  While I know Trevor Lawrence is going to have his rookie struggles, I was hoping performances like these would be minimized.  Like the secondary, this offense is part of a 1-15 season last year and the team will struggle.  The offense seems horribly disjointed.  We can't run the ball.  We don't try to run the ball.  (Egads!  I'm channeling Jim Mora!)  The word of the day:  lethargic!

3.  Getting back to the defensive performance, many fans would wonder why the defense did not blitz more under Wash.  When Ramsey and Bouye were in the secondary and Calais and Ngakoue were rushing the passer, you could argue there wasn't much need.  Whole I've noticed that some rushers were coming free, scheme changes and exotic blitzes do not mean your defense will be effective.  Though they feed off each other, the defense needs good CB play to get home on blitzes.

4.  The offensive line was, once again, offensive...and not in a good way.   Way too many hits on Trevor Lawrence.  Several instances where the line was overpowered, which was a continuation of last week.  I understand pass blocking requires offensive linemen to be passive, but that seems to happen quite a bit.  Are guys not using leverage?  What about the strength?  Once again, Jawaan Taylor had a catastrophic failure on that late 2nd quarter 3rd down sack.  He wasn't alone, as Bartch's guy got the sack on that play, but watch Jawaan Taylor on that play.  Once again, scary scary bad against a backup.

5.  Nice to see Taven Bryan play like he could actually find the ball on that screen.

6.  Since 2017, Josh Lambo has been one of our most consistent performers.  But so far this preseason, he has missed 2/3 FGs.  What gives

7.  Rookie Watch:

    A.  Trevor Lawrence-As I said above, took way too many hits.  For the first time, I saw him force a pass or two into double coverage on ill advised throws.  Also way off on a pass to Shenault in the end zone.  There were some good signs.  There were a couple of plays where he managed to step up nicely in the pocket.  He had a couple of decent throws.  But he looks like a rookie right now.  It seems like Minshew is making faster decisions....as if his internal clock is faster. Of course, that is to be expected considering e's going into his 3rd year while TL isn't.  Lawrence is a better prospect and should be a starter, but there are signs of rookie-itis.

     B.  Travis Etienne-had the one catch for three yards and hurt his foot.  This is NOT what I wanted to see.  Hopefully this is not a serious injury...nor par for the course for him.

     C.  Tyson Campbell-see above.  I have the feeling he will be isolated and targeted by opposing offensive coordinators and QBs all season long.  There's no point in covering a guy if you can't make a play on the ball. 


     D.  Walker Little-perhaps the one pleasant surprise of the night for me considering he got the start at LT.  Seemed to hold up decently, though there was that one pass rush were he got pushed back into TL.  I'm sure he has more work to do with his hands, but his was the one area of the OL I felt better about after this game.

     E.  Andre Cisco-Played but did not stand out to me.

     F.  Jay Tufele-got a good pass rush but a bad penalty.

     G.  Jordan Smith-Did not stand out to me

     H.  Luke Farrell-Had a good reception early in the game.

     I.  Jalen Camp-  Was targeted in the 3rd quarter.

8.  Back to the O-Line....inserting Walker Little in at LT is a possible way to improve it.  But that alone does not fix the OL.  Benching Jawaan Taylor is another.  I don't know why Cam Robinson did not play, but I hope he is placed in at RT.  At this point, I'd rather see him struggle to learn the position early and get better than to see Jawaan Taylor continue  as he has been.

9.  In Ben Stein's (Ferris Beuller's teacher) voice..  "Chaisson?  Chaisson...?  Chaisson...?

10.  Guys who did decently but will probably be cut:  Cotton, Cotrell, Ozigbo.

11.  Bottom line-This reminds me too much of Dallas in 1989.  Absolutely listless.  Seemingly lost in many ways.  I am trying not to overreact to preseason.  Honestly I am.  But this team has a long way to go.

     .

1. Totally agree. I was not a fan of the Tyson Campbell pick from the beginning. I liked his Georgia teammate Eric Stokes a lot more, but he was taken 4 picks ahead of us in round 2. One thing is becoming very clear though, Campbell is not very good in man to man coverage. He just loses track of the ball, way too often. This is made even worse by the fact that we are stacking the line in order to stop the run, so our secondary is basically the CB's which are left out on islands. There just needs to be more balance, because of right now, we are working so hard to fix the run defense that it's hurting the pass defense. 

2. Bevell called a terrible game. Our O-Line was once again beaten badly. When this happens with a rookie QB, you have to find ways to build his confidence. Normally, coaches would do this by designing quick screens and crossing patterns where the ball comes out right away and the damage to the QB is very minimal. He gets some easy completions and his confidence builds. Instead, Bevell had Lawrence dropping back on almost every passing play and he was getting hit continuously. I don't get it. I don't wanna see Lawrence get shell shocked by all the punishment he is taking. We need a quicker, more up tempo offense. If we keep dropping him back and allowing him to get clobbered, we're gonna ruin a franchise QB. 

3. Totally agree. In order to stack the line and blitz, you need really good press cover corners. Marlon Humphrey might be one of the best examples I could use. We have no Marlon Humphrey type corners right now. This defense is gonna need tinkering and it's gonna be ugly at some points. We'll just have to see how it plays out. I know we have 2 first round edge pass rushers, but to me, Duane Smoot looks like the most consistent pass rusher we have. He needs to get significant playing time once the season starts. 

4. What can I say about the O-Line that I haven't already said? Taylor needs to go. Bartch looked very bad in relief of Norwell and Little was getting trucked most of the night. We kept our O-Line coach from a 1-15 team and brought back the entire starting O-Line and then proceeded to draft an OT that hadn't played a full football game in two years. How could any of this go wrong? It was a recipe for disaster. 

5. He's still not making the final roster. 

6. I'm hoping Lambo is just shaking off the rust and he'll be fine by the opening game. It is odd seeing him miss kicks though.

7a. Lawrence didn't look bad, he just didn't look very comfortable. He was holding the ball longer than I'd like and at times, the game just looked faster than he could handle. I'm gonna chuck this up to rookie nerves though. I just hope this O-Line doesn't get him hurt. 

7b. I hope Etienne is ok. One thing that was said during the game that really annoyed me was during an interview with Meyer he said when they drafted Etienne, they didn't know how they were gonna use him. What? How do you spend a first round pick on a guy with no plan how you want to use him? Does Meyer know what he's doing? This quote sounds foolish. 

7c. Campbell has no business playing in a man to man scheme. He is a zone CB that needs help from the Safeties. He can't track a ball to save his life. 

7d. You and I saw two different things. I saw Little getting walked backwards on several occasions like a show pony. I had positive thoughts on him after last week, but now, I don't know. 

7e. Agreed.

7f. Agreed. 

7g. This is starting to look like a wasted draft pick. 

7h. Agreed. 

7i. Yep. 

8. Personally, I'd keep Robinson at LT and start Walker at RT. Anything is an improvement over Taylor, but I don't think Little is ready for the blindside yet. 

9. Smoot needs to start opposite Allen. 

10. Yep. That bad drop in the endzone by Cotton ruined an otherwise good night. 

11. Good analysis Bullseye. I totally agree. I'd also like to add that for a 2nd week in a row, our best looking QB was Beathard. He needs to be the primary backup.
(08-23-2021, 11:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-23-2021, 11:33 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Call it overreaction, but it was literally all over his scouting report that he can’t find the ball in the air. That’s all he did in college. It’s coming to fruition on the field. So he’s just going to magically find the ball in “real” games? Those 1 on 1 battles transition to real games, he’s getting exposed. Got to turn your damn head. Hoping he magically learns instincts.

Or just not-so-magically gets coached up over the next year or two.

It’s really hard to teach INSTINCTS. If you look at the replay the CB I think Griffen was about to make a play on the ball and got actually interfered by Campbell. It’s just like how we are magically waiting for Taven to be coached. Let’s just wait.
Team looks bad, run game was bad, pass game was meh at best, pass d and special teams were awful.. The only thing we've seen as a strength is the run defense. Hopefully we can figure some other things out, we have 3 weeks.
(08-24-2021, 12:03 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-23-2021, 11:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Or just not-so-magically gets coached up over the next year or two.

It’s really hard to teach INSTINCTS. If you look at the replay the CB I think Griffen was about to make a play on the ball and got actually interfered by Campbell. It’s just like how we are magically waiting for Taven to be coached. Let’s just wait.

Yeah - double edged sword.  Chark was called a bust prematurely by the same overly eager bunch and QB Josh Allen decried the worst pick ever by the same crew. 

I'm happy to be patient on Campbell beyond preseason game 2 of his rookie year. But, by all means, please let us know if you're certain he's a bust before the regular season starts while he's 21 years old. 

Also - are you certain his deficiency in turning to the ball is more instinct than technique?  Why?
(08-24-2021, 12:03 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-23-2021, 11:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Or just not-so-magically gets coached up over the next year or two.

It’s really hard to teach INSTINCTS. If you look at the replay the CB I think Griffen was about to make a play on the ball and got actually interfered by Campbell. It’s just like how we are magically waiting for Taven to be coached. Let’s just wait.

Campbell is giving me flashes of Jonathan Sliprien.  SLiprien was a safety but had the worst instiincts to find the football I have ever seen as a Jaguar.
(08-24-2021, 12:28 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-24-2021, 12:03 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]It’s really hard to teach INSTINCTS. If you look at the replay the CB I think Griffen was about to make a play on the ball and got actually interfered by Campbell. It’s just like how we are magically waiting for Taven to be coached. Let’s just wait.

Campbell is giving me flashes of Jonathan Sliprien.  SLiprien was a safety but had the worst instiincts to find the football I have ever seen as a Jaguar.

If you watch Campbell play and your take away is "Cyprien," you seriously need to just throw out everything and start over with learning football.
(08-24-2021, 12:20 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-24-2021, 12:03 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]It’s really hard to teach INSTINCTS. If you look at the replay the CB I think Griffen was about to make a play on the ball and got actually interfered by Campbell. It’s just like how we are magically waiting for Taven to be coached. Let’s just wait.

Yeah - double edged sword.  Chark was called a bust prematurely by the same overly eager bunch and QB Josh Allen decried the worst pick ever by the same crew. 

I'm happy to be patient on Campbell beyond preseason game 2 of his rookie year. But, by all means, please let us know if you're certain he's a bust before the regular season starts while he's 21 years old. 

Also - are you certain his deficiency in turning to the ball is more instinct than technique?  Why?

Both. More instinct IMO, but it’s both. For example one way CBs get better at this by putting a hand on the receiver as long as they have good speed to get a feel for when the ball is coming, particularly the hands.. or if they have a hand on them really good CBs are able to whip the head around and shadow the WR while locating ball. Tyson doesn’t do any of this. We saw him make a good play on the ball in the browns game, but he was never turned around. That’s his downfall, just like in that same game he got turned around and put on a highlight. 

We can hope it gets coached up, but it was his wrap for 3 years at Georgia. Everyone knows this. It’s been the biggest downfall for him forever, and against pro WR he better figure this out quick or he will be on “you got mossed” weekly. Because right now he’s 2/2.

For the record, I sure hope it does work out. He’s got the speed and size.
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