09-15-2021, 07:43 AM
It's about time to get the gallows out and make examples of some of these people. We need our military back if we are to remain the superpower that is America.
(09-15-2021, 07:43 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]It's about time to get the gallows out and make examples of some of these people. We need our military back if we are to remain the superpower that is America.
(09-15-2021, 07:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]From the article:
"The two journalists wrote that Milley “was certain that Trump had gone into a serious mental decline in the aftermath of the election, with Trump now all but manic, screaming at officials and constructing his own alternate reality about endless election conspiracies.”"
In my opinion, if Milley really thought that, then it is was his duty to try to make sure the President didn't do anything crazy.
Now, was that treasonous? Here is what the Constitution says:
Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
It doesn't seem to meet that definition of "treason." But it's certainly worth discussion.
(09-15-2021, 07:43 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]It's about time to get the gallows out and make examples of some of these people. We need our military back if we are to remain the superpower that is America.
Go read up on the Nuremberg Trials. All those Nazi generals said they were just following orders.
(09-15-2021, 05:51 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]The report I saw said that the United States learned that China thought Trump was about to order an attack on China. Milley called his Chinese counterpart and told him we were not about to attack China. Milley was trying to calm them down and prevent a very dangerous situation.
Now, if Milley intervened in the chain of command in order to prevent Trump launching a nuclear strike in the waning day of his Presidency, that may or may not be treason, but I think that was the responsible thing to do. If I really thought the President was not mentally stable, and could possibly launch a nuclear strike, I think if I were a brave enough, I would commit treason at that point.
Absolute adherence to the chain of command was an excuse German generals used in the Nuremberg trials to justify committing genocide. "I was only following orders."
(09-14-2021, 11:19 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ](09-14-2021, 10:31 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]At the behest of the President. You are taking the 2 biggest players who were in a proxy war for decades and comparing it to a general that was on the phone with China about an order that never even came through. Your absurdity knows no bounds.
The order to nuke Moscow never came through either, sphincter sniffer.
(09-14-2021, 11:19 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-14-2021, 10:31 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]At the behest of the President. You are taking the 2 biggest players who were in a proxy war for decades and comparing it to a general that was on the phone with China about an order that never even came through. Your absurdity knows no bounds.
The order to nuke Moscow never came through either, sphincter sniffer.
(09-15-2021, 07:36 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t know anything about military chain of command, but as a civilian in the outside, generals calling foreign nationals and claiming advanced warning on military actions seems treasonous to me.
Or is it now acceptable anytime some general disagrees with a President to work to undermine his or her authority with foreign nations. Screw it won’t matter for long the house of cards is coming down soon enough.
(09-15-2021, 08:47 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I started digging into the topic a bit and was surprised how little there was on the topic. I know the founding fathers were succinct, but that definition is wanting. Regardless, I don't like what I saw from Milley there. He had no reason to call China for something so speculative.It's weird that this is leaking. Look at the words being used. Everything that is said applies more to Biden. Now the MSM is responding that Milley is a hero and did everything right to stop a president not mentally there. Milley was even said to say he would remove Trump.
(09-15-2021, 09:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, my question would be, is there any scenario you can see where morality overrides duty as a military officer to follow the chain of command?
Obviously, the answer is yes, because I know that if you guys were in the military and the President told you to go out and round up Jews and kill them, you would not obey that. But would that be treason? Yes, that is an extreme example, but it did happen in Germany.
On the other hand, you have the Seven Days in May scenario, where Chairman of the Joint Chiefs tried to carry out a military coup based on his own assumptions of what was good for the people of the United States and the rest of the world.
So there are cases where your duty as a moral human being overrides your duty as a military officer. The question is, where do we draw the line? In some cases, morality demands that you commit treason. Right? So how does one make that decision? This is not a simple question, no matter how much you guys want it to be.
I wouldn't mind seeing Milley put on trial over this, as long as the trial is public and televised. It would be the most interesting trial in years. Because it would delve into questions of morality vs duty, not to mention what was going on in the White House at the time.
(09-15-2021, 09:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, my question would be, is there any scenario you can see where morality overrides duty as a military officer to follow the chain of command?
Obviously, the answer is yes, because I know that if you guys were in the military and the President told you to go out and round up Jews and kill them, you would not obey that. But would that be treason? Yes, that is an extreme example, but it did happen in Germany.
So there are cases where your duty as a moral human being overrides your duty as a military officer. The question is, where do we draw the line? In some cases, morality demands that you commit treason. Right? So how does one make that decision? This is not a simple question, no matter how much you guys want it to be.
I wouldn't mind seeing Milley put on trial over this, as long as the trial is public and televised. It would be the most interesting trial in years. Because it would delve into questions of morality vs duty, not to mention what was going on in the White House at the time.
(09-15-2021, 10:08 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ](09-15-2021, 09:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, my question would be, is there any scenario you can see where morality overrides duty as a military officer to follow the chain of command?
Obviously, the answer is yes, because I know that if you guys were in the military and the President told you to go out and round up Jews and kill them, you would not obey that. But would that be treason? Yes, that is an extreme example, but it did happen in Germany.
So there are cases where your duty as a moral human being overrides your duty as a military officer. The question is, where do we draw the line? In some cases, morality demands that you commit treason. Right? So how does one make that decision? This is not a simple question, no matter how much you guys want it to be.
I wouldn't mind seeing Milley put on trial over this, as long as the trial is public and televised. It would be the most interesting trial in years. Because it would delve into questions of morality vs duty, not to mention what was going on in the White House at the time.
No. If he doesn't like something that his boss tells him he can step down from his position.
(09-15-2021, 10:36 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]It is humorous pretending we are cool with pudding for brains Joe Biden making a war time decision.
(09-15-2021, 10:24 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Milley's actions were driven by his own paranoia. He is guilty of several UCMJ article violations. Court martial is the only recourse.
(09-15-2021, 09:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So, my question would be, is there any scenario you can see where morality overrides duty as a military officer to follow the chain of command?
Obviously, the answer is yes, because I know that if you guys were in the military and the President told you to go out and round up Jews and kill them, you would not obey that. But would that be treason? Yes, that is an extreme example, but it did happen in Germany.
So there are cases where your duty as a moral human being overrides your duty as a military officer. The question is, where do we draw the line? In some cases, morality demands that you commit treason. Right? So how does one make that decision? This is not a simple question, no matter how much you guys want it to be.
I wouldn't mind seeing Milley put on trial over this, as long as the trial is public and televised. It would be the most interesting trial in years. Because it would delve into questions of morality vs duty, not to mention what was going on in the White House at the time.
(09-15-2021, 12:56 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I think it would be totally within his rights to deny the president the authority to invade another country as a pretext to stay in office. That didn't happen, though. So, the dude needs to be tried.