Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-20-2021, 01:56 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the updated list:

TL passes the "eye test" a lot better than these rankings.  Hopefully he can cut down the mistakes. 

Norwell finally playing like the FA we signed?

(09-20-2021, 05:57 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-20-2021, 01:56 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the updated list:

TL passes the "eye test" a lot better than these rankings.  Hopefully he can cut down the mistakes. 

Norwell finally playing like the FA we signed?

Those are the week one grades in that graphic 


week 2 notables:

Quote:According to Pro Football Focus, the highest-graded Jags players in Week 2 were defensive end Dawuane Smoot (79.0), defensive tackle DaVon Hamilton (75.4), safety Andrew Wingard (75.0), defensive end Adam Gotsis (70.0) and defensive lineman Taven Bryan (68.2).

Yesterday’s game was the best that I’ve ever seen Adam Gostis perform on the gridiron.

(09-20-2021, 01:56 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the updated list:

[ginormous graphic]

gonna pop some popcorn before reading the rest of this thread. Wingard with a green rating gonna blow this place up.

I don't know what they are looking for or evaluating here, but Roy was in on a bunch of stops, so dunno why he got dinged.

Wingard did have a career game, hopefully he can stay consistent and not get penalized

It maybe time to pass short more often.  He also amoung league leaders in pass attempts as a rookie. WOW!

The run/pass split still isn't the problem, but the passing concepts and Trevor's hero ball mindset sure are.

(09-21-2021, 08:13 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]The run/pass split still isn't the problem, but the passing concepts and Trevor's hero ball mindset sure are.

You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

(09-21-2021, 11:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2021, 08:13 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]The run/pass split still isn't the problem, but the passing concepts and Trevor's hero ball mindset sure are.

You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

(09-22-2021, 12:20 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2021, 11:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

Wow LOL

(09-22-2021, 12:20 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2021, 11:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

If you are unable to see how a vital running game would set up more successful play action downfield shots for Trevor Lawrence, you've still got some homework to do on NFL football.  Can't really help you past that.

(09-22-2021, 12:20 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2021, 11:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

I just can't... lol.

We were 1-15 because our defense couldn't stop a damned thing.. 3rd most rush yards allowed and 6th most allowed passing yards while allowing 2nd most ppg(30.8).

Would you be surprised to know we had the fewest rush attempts as a team last year? Yep. 337, dead last. I don't wanna hear a word about Robinson or the run game being the reason we were 1-15, because we didn't even run it... Our defense was so bad we were playing catch-up in every single game and the D couldn't get off the field.

A) Wow. LOL.

B) I don't deny the importance of the running game in my post. I said we need to give TL the time and experience to mature. The two statements are unrelated. If you can't agree with that then there's nothing I can do to help you understand NFL football. Perhaps you think running more will accelerate TL's throwing judgement and skill. An interesting perspective.

C) I specifically said Robinson wasn't the cause of the Jag's failures last year. In fact, I said the opposite. Reading comprehension issues. If the defense utterly sucks and that's the reason for failure then more running isn't going to fix the D.


The ingredient missing from a balanced offense is a passing game. The passing game is lacking because it's no good. The QB is green and makes unwise throws (despite his talent). The WR's are average. The TE a cast off who is injured so now an SS Minnows level cast off will take his place. There is only one area for improvement in the passing game: TL's performance. Everything else in the passing game is as good as it's going to get. You want to balance the offense? Then pray TL get's a magically enhanced football wisdom that usually only comes from experience. Because until the passing game gets better, the running game will continue to suffer.

(09-22-2021, 02:43 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]A) Wow.  LOL.

B) I don't deny the importance of the running game in my post.  I said we need to give TL the time and experience to mature.  The two statements are unrelated.  If you can't agree with that then there's nothing I can do to help you understand NFL football.  Perhaps you think running more will accelerate TL's throwing judgement and skill.  An interesting perspective.

C) I specifically said Robinson wasn't the cause of the Jag's failures last year.  In fact, I said the opposite.  Reading comprehension issues.  If the defense utterly sucks and that's the reason for failure then more running isn't going to fix the D.


The ingredient missing from a balanced offense is a passing game.  The passing game is lacking because it's no good.  The QB is green and makes unwise throws (despite his talent).  The WR's are average.  The TE a cast off who is injured so now an SS Minnows level cast off will take his place.  There is only one area for improvement in the passing game: TL's performance.  Everything else in the passing game is as good as it's going to get.  You want to balance the offense?  Then pray TL get's a magically enhanced football wisdom that usually only comes from experience.  Because until the passing game gets better, the running game will continue to suffer.

The biggest issue with the passing game is the ridiculous number of low completion percentage passes being attempted

Its a very simple fix. 

More handoffs and more dink and dunk to move the sticks.

(09-22-2021, 12:20 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2021, 11:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

This post is so misguided I shouldn't give it the dignity of a response.

The D was nonexistent last year. The passing offense was a level worse than that.

There's no way any sane football fan could attempt to pin the stinkeroo of a season we had last year on the only dude who showed up. Now that we have passing offense, a competent run game would only help the passing game open up. If the safeties are spying for the handoff before breaking into pass coverage, play action will result in better play. If you can't run or don't run, every aspect of the D is going to focus on killing the pass game, and that is precisely what we've seen the past two weeks. Safeties aren't creeping up to the line. Ends aren't staying home to shut down any possible run.

But let me guess - it's the receivers faults that they can't beat dime coverage?

(09-22-2021, 01:18 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If you are unable to see how a vital running game would set up more successful play action downfield shots for Trevor Lawrence, you've still got some homework to do on NFL football.  Can't really help you past that.

C'mon now, you know the data has shown over and over that play action success is not correlated with a successful running game. We should be doing play action a lot more regardless.

(09-22-2021, 10:43 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2021, 01:18 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If you are unable to see how a vital running game would set up more successful play action downfield shots for Trevor Lawrence, you've still got some homework to do on NFL football.  Can't really help you past that.

C'mon now, you know the data has shown over and over that play action success is not correlated with a successful running game. We should be doing play action a lot more regardless.

I know that you keep saying this, i don't think the data actually proves it. 
I debunked it last year. Not going to rehash right now.

(09-22-2021, 12:20 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2021, 11:59 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You getting stuck on split/balance is a simple forest for the trees scenario. 

Screw split and balance. 
This is about basic offensive production via the most efficient means available. 
Anyone with half a [BLEEP] brain can identify James Robinson as a surefire way to move the damn football more consistently than hucking it 35 yards downfield on a wing and a prayer repeatedly. Remind me what the incompletion percentage is for a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry, please?

The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

Blaming the Losses on James Robinson who was probably our best player.  WOW indeed!

N/M the worst rush defense in the league by a wide margin, LOL.
Insane reasoning from ozzy there.

(09-22-2021, 05:17 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2021, 12:20 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, giving it to Robinson last year didn't win games either.  And just giving it to Robinson because it's the only thing that can be done (which is what last year amounted to) is just treading water with no chance of improvement.  Fact is, TL has to toss the ball and the team has to change the way it plays.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But the Robinson train took us straight to last place.  That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset.

The team must have a go at the TL airball and it has to give him the time to learn how to be effective with it.  Will it work?  Who knows?  But if they don't try then they already know the result: last place.  If TL turns into a dead set superstar will he take this team somewhere?  Absolutely.  So giving him the experience to be a superstar is the price that has to be paid.  I hope it pays off.  But it's gonna suck like hell before we find out if it does work or not.

Blaming the Losses on James Robinson who was probably our best player.  WOW indeed!

Self portrait?  It must be as you seem to have severe reading comprehension issues.

Direct quote: "That's not a reflection on Robinson (who had a marvellous year) but how ineffective the team was with that mindset."

Robinson is not enough to win games.  We had him in a stellar year and WON ONE GAME because the passing side of the offense was bog average.  And this year the passing game is worse!  Running Robinson, as good as he is, WILL NOT WIN GAMES.  Nor will it put TL on the rapid growth path he needs.  You want Robinson to run more then hope TL's game improves and quickly as a running game with no passing is a one way ticket to misery.  TL has to go in the deep end and learn to swim.  And the team is going to swallow a lot of water until he does or he drowns (in which case we start all over again).

This year is gonna suck.  It cannot be avoided.  And the Jags will continue to put up one win seasons when running is the only arrow in their quiver, no matter how good that runner is.


FACT: In the NFL you can win with a great arm and a middling run.  You cannot win with a great run and a horrid arm.  And average arm will get you to the post-season and then you'll collapse.  Ask Adrian Peterson about all those great running Vikings seasons straight into post-season destruction.