Ammosexuals rejoice! Parliamentary laws allowed a Governor's veto to be overturned so that things like a permit or training course are no longer needed to get a gun. Law enforcement all but guarantees this will put cops lives at risk and were firmly against this. I guess they are trying to climb up from that #4 ranking of most gun deaths. You can basically get a gun anywhere and only need to say you felt threatened to get away with murder in public with the tweak to the Stand Your Ground law. While some people keep believing this boogeyman tale "they're coming for your guns," the NRA lobbied to make sure more people (including criminals) have access to concealed carry without proper safety training than ever. I guess they figure anyone with basic cable knows to point the gun away from yourself.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/new-missouri-gun-law-changes-the-rules-but-some-restrictions/article_52cae4d3-310c-5c89-a55e-007ec99fefbf.html'>http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/new-missouri-gun-law-changes-the-rules-but-some-restrictions/article_52cae4d3-310c-5c89-a55e-007ec99fefbf.html</a>[/url]
[/url<a class="bbc_url" href='http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/16/opinion/missouri-the-shoot-me-state.html?0p19G=c'>http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/16/opinion/missouri-the-shoot-me-state.html?0p19G=c</a>
From your own article...
Quote:• Come Jan. 1, lawful owners of firearms will be able to conceal and carry them anywhere in Missouri, subject to the limitations that already exist — not in the likes of courthouses, jails, polling places or businesses, such as grocery stores, that post “no guns” at their doors.
•Background checks for buying weapons still apply as required.
• Local governments, such as St. Louis, still can prohibit people from carrying weapons openly unless they have concealed-carry permits.
How is this letting you get a gun anywhere so you can get away with murder?
And as far as criminals with concealed guns...another goody from your article:
Quote:"Our biggest fear is criminals who have not been convicted of a felony but are engaged in criminal activity will be legally carrying guns, and we’re now going to have to assume everyone is armed,” Ahlbrand said. “When we show up to a scene and there are five guys with their guns out, what do we do?”"
Criminals that have never been convicted of a crime can pass a background check and get a concealed carry permit in Missouri before this, no? It's the whole never been convicted of a crime thing...you can legally obtain a gun.
And really, do you think a for real criminal is going to worry about getting a concealed carry permit so they can carry a gun??
The provision to Stand Your Ground says people don't need to retreat if they feel threatened, they can just shoot and say they feared for their life anywhere in a public place. Not just their home or vehicle.
Of course criminals can get their hands on guns without going through the proper channels. But forget open carry.. now nobody needs to get a concealed permit or take a safety course. I don't have an issue with people who use firearms responsibly. This law puts guns in the hands of people and tells them they need NO training on how to be responsible whatsoever. That is reckless. Cops need to assume any time they roll up on a crime scene everyone is carrying concealed. What could go wrong?
I wish Florida would pass similar legislation.
Quote:I wish Florida would pass similar legislation.
Please, no. What is wrong with people these days, cowering in fear like we're living in some post-apocalyptic world with criminals running amok. People walk around with guns in their pockets, but the need for one is so rare, when it happens it makes the national news! Right now, I'm more afraid of these people with guns in their pockets than I am of the criminals.
Quote:I wish Florida would pass similar legislation.
For someone with Spock as your avatar, you say a lot of illogical things.
Less training on proper gun safety. Hooray!
As usual liberals are afraid of more freedom.
Was hoping you'd at least get to your third post before playing the liberal card. Baaaaaaa.
So conservative genius. What is the benefit of allowing first time gun owners to NOT have to take a safety course before tucking a pistol in the front of their pants?
If someone is adult enough to purchase a firearm then they should be adult enough to seek training on their own. We don't need a nanny state mandating how we live our lives.
Being "allowed" to exercise your rights? What a horrific idea. You should be ashamed.
Quote:Right now, I'm more afraid of these people with guns in their pockets than I am of the criminals.
Then it's quite likely you are ignorant about this particular subject. A study of concealed carriers in Texas and Florida puts them as the most law-abiding demographic.
The general population commits violent crimes at 222 times the rate that concealed carriers do.
Police officers commit violent crimes at 6 times the rate that concealed carriers do.
Police officers commit firearm violations at 7 times the rate that concealed carriers do.
You are safer in a room full of concealed carriers than in a police station.
Quote:If someone is adult enough to purchase a firearm then they should be adult enough to seek training on their own. We don't need a nanny state mandating how we live our lives.
Using the words "nanny state" shouldn't exonerate you from answering the question.
What is the benefit of having more wholly untrained lawful gun owners walking the street carrying concealed?
I'll answer it for you. There is no benefit. If you disagree, explain how. Specifically to this point and nothing else.
Not sure how much time you've spent with 18 year olds lately. But many in this generation are incapable of dealing with their own emotions. You've made comments on how this PC generation is too coddled yourself. But everyone becomes a tough guy with a gun in their hands. I promise there will still be plenty of unintended deaths regardless (self inflicted or otherwise). People need to pass a test before getting a driver's license. You don't think a bare minimum safety requirement for guns should be mandatory though. You really should be forced to change that avatar as:
Removing mandatory gun safety requirements makes us more safe.
..is not a logical statement.
Quote:Then it's quite likely you are ignorant about this particular subject. A study of concealed carriers in Texas and Florida puts them as the most law-abiding demographic.
The general population commits violent crimes at 222 times the rate that concealed carriers do.
Police officers commit violent crimes at 6 times the rate that concealed carriers do.
Police officers commit firearm violations at 7 times the rate that concealed carriers do.
You are safer in a room full of concealed carriers than in a police station.
That's because you need to get a permit to carry concealed in those states. Translation: you need to learn how to be a responsibile gun owner. I have no issue with these people.
What this law says is.. You have a name. I'm sure you're responsible. Carry concealed all you want. Screw the safety course.
That is not responsible gun ownership.
Quote:Using the words "nanny state" shouldn't exonerate you from answering the question.
What is the benefit of having more wholly untrained lawful gun owners walking the street carrying concealed?
I'll answer it for you. There is no benefit. If you disagree, explain how. Specifically to this point and nothing else.
Not sure how much time you've spent with 18 year olds lately. But many in this generation are incapable of dealing with their own emotions. You've made comments on how this PC generation is too coddled yourself. But everyone becomes a tough guy with a gun in their hands. I promise there will still be plenty of unintended deaths regardless (self inflicted or otherwise). People need to pass a test before getting a driver's license. You don't think a bare minimum safety requirement for guns should be mandatory though. You really should be forced to change that avatar as:
Removing mandatory gun safety requirements makes us more safe.
..is not a logical statement.
An 18 year old is old enough to serve the country and vote, therefor they are also old enough to have some common sense (allegedly). Any adult that chooses to obtain and/or carry a firearm without some kind of training is pretty much an idiot. We don't need a nanny state mandating common sense.
I personally am of the belief that proper use and care of firearms should be part of the education system. I personally received my first training in the 5th grade. It was a Hunter's Safety course taught at public school.
Comparing owning a firearm and driving is two totally separate things. Driving is a privilege not a right. Gun ownership is a right.
Quote:An 18 year old is old enough to serve the country and vote, therefor they are also old enough to have some common sense (allegedly). Any adult that chooses to obtain and/or carry a firearm without some kind of training is pretty much an idiot. We don't need a nanny state mandating common sense.
I personally am of the belief that proper use and care of firearms should be part of the education system. I personally received my first training in the 5th grade. It was a Hunter's Safety course taught at public school.
Comparing owning a firearm and driving is two totally separate things. Driving is a privilege not a right. Gun ownership is a right.
Technically driving is also a right as we have a right to freedom of movement. Had you told Jefferson et al that the government had the power to stop them from riding their horses to town you'dve caught the business end of a flint lock.
Quote:An 18 year old is old enough to serve the country and vote, therefor they are also old enough to have some common sense (allegedly). Any adult that chooses to obtain and/or carry a firearm without some kind of training is pretty much an idiot. We don't need a nanny state mandating common sense.
I personally am of the belief that proper use and care of firearms should be part of the education system. I personally received my first training in the 5th grade. It was a Hunter's Safety course taught at public school.
Comparing owning a firearm and driving is two totally separate things. Driving is a privilege not a right. Gun ownership is a right.
Anyone who gets a gun without training is an idiot. This country is clearly full of them. What is the benefit of allowing idiots to carry concealed? It's still not logical. Ask yourself honestly, would Spock do this?
Quote:Anyone who gets a gun without training is an idiot. This country is clearly full of them. What is the benefit of allowing idiots to carry concealed? It's still not logical. Ask yourself honestly, would Spock do this?
what do you define as training, who gets to define training on a legal sense?
I'm a huge advocate of the 2nd amendment but I don't carry most places, Florida requires a CCW or a 3 step law when in public. So if I feel the need to take a firearm with me I follow the 3 step law. But I'm not changing oil with a 9MM strapped to my side, it wouldn't be good for business lol.
As for what training do I have? I guess none. I grew up around firearms, learned at a young age to respect them. I took a hunter's safety course one year but it wasn't any sort of training, just a list of you can shoot this and can't shoot that stuff.
If we want to set the precedent that the state needs to sign off on individuals receiving the proper training to exercise their constitutional rights, well that's more dangerous than 1000 idiots with 1000 guns.
Just imagine if you where required to take a safe public speech class before allowed to exercise your 1st amendment right to free speech, can you see how that could be a little dangerous to the practice of free speech?
Quote:That's because you need to get a permit to carry concealed in those states. Translation: you need to learn how to be a responsibile gun owner. I have no issue with these people.
For the Florida CHL you need to learn how to sit in a classroom without falling asleep, and then fire 50 rounds at a paper target. Neither of these make you a responsible gun owner. But they are steps along the way.
Any training is better than no training.
Quote:Any training is better than no training.
You keep saying no training but what you mean is an unknown level of training. It could be 0 or 50,000 rounds of training.