(10-31-2021, 11:53 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 10:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand this mentality at all. I would much rather get crushed than to know my opponent had to put their "foot on the brake" as to not run up the score. I don't want any mercy. If I'm that bad, I need to know it and learn from it. Having someone hold back on you, is way more humiliating. It means I couldn't even compete with you when you weren't even trying. I want to face the best of the best, every time. If you can't give me you're all, then what's the point?
If your son was on the losing team you might have a different perspective. For that matter, how would you feel if your son was the backup QB on the winning team? With at 12 TD lead, he still can't get into the game because the coach cares more about running up the score than giving your kid a chance to play. Is that how you define sportsmanship?
If I was a parent on the winning team, I would be the first to go to the other sideline after the game to apologize to the opposing parents for the coach's actions.
No, I wouldn't. I would be ticked off at my team's coach for not preparing my kid and his teammates to at least be competitive. It was embarrassing how badly they played.
Again, if my kid was the backup QB on the winning team, I wouldn't be mad at all. Football is about playing the best players and that starting QB was having a fantastic game. No need to take him out, unless you are worried about him getting injured. Football is about winning. It's not about keeping players happy. Sportsmanship is all about accepting losses, learning from them and respecting who had the better team.
(10-31-2021, 12:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 11:14 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The point is being a good sport, something that our world could use a lot more of. If you keep throwing the ball while up 7 touchdowns in a high school game then you are an [BLEEP] hole and should absolutely be removed from your position because you are teaching the wrong lessons to impressionable kids. Damn, what happened to common sense and decency in people? These aren't professionals, they're kids, so yeah, kick the guys when they're down and rub their faces in the dirt, that's what we should all be about.
These are high school kids. They are a lot closer to adulthood than they are young children. They shouldn't be coddled. Do you think the bad things in life are gonna let up on them when things get tough? No. They need to learn that bad things often pile on and they need to develop the skills to get passed it. Life is gonna show these kids no mercy, so why should the opposing team? It's a valuable learning experience. You pick yourself up, dust yourself off and learn from it.
That's the problem with kids in today's society. People want to coddle them and protect them from every little thing, so they grow up spoiled and entitled, thinking other people will protect them from all the bad things in life.
And the winners learned that it's cool to be an [BLEEP] hole instead of a good sport. That's the problem with today's society, people teach cutthroat values and then say that "life is gonna show these kids no mercy", it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that it's "coddling" to be a good sport by not throwing TDs and going for 2 point conversions when up by 100 points is a whole nuther level of sociopathy.
(10-31-2021, 12:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 11:14 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The point is being a good sport, something that our world could use a lot more of. If you keep throwing the ball while up 7 touchdowns in a high school game then you are an [BLEEP] hole and should absolutely be removed from your position because you are teaching the wrong lessons to impressionable kids. Damn, what happened to common sense and decency in people? These aren't professionals, they're kids, so yeah, kick the guys when they're down and rub their faces in the dirt, that's what we should all be about.
These are high school kids. They are a lot closer to adulthood than they are young children. They shouldn't be coddled. Do you think the bad things in life are gonna let up on them when things get tough? No. They need to learn that bad things often pile on and they need to develop the skills to get passed it. Life is gonna show these kids no mercy, so why should the opposing team? It's a valuable learning experience. You pick yourself up, dust yourself off and learn from it.
That's the problem with kids in today's society. People want to coddle them and protect them from every little thing, so they grow up spoiled and entitled, thinking other people will protect them from all the bad things in life.
We don't agree on much, but we agree here..
(10-31-2021, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 12:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]These are high school kids. They are a lot closer to adulthood than they are young children. They shouldn't be coddled. Do you think the bad things in life are gonna let up on them when things get tough? No. They need to learn that bad things often pile on and they need to develop the skills to get passed it. Life is gonna show these kids no mercy, so why should the opposing team? It's a valuable learning experience. You pick yourself up, dust yourself off and learn from it.
That's the problem with kids in today's society. People want to coddle them and protect them from every little thing, so they grow up spoiled and entitled, thinking other people will protect them from all the bad things in life.
And the winners learned that it's cool to be an [BLEEP] hole instead of a good sport. That's the problem with today's society, people teach cutthroat values and then say that "life is gonna show these kids no mercy", it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that it's "coddling" to be a good sport by not throwing TDs and going for 2 point conversions when up by 100 points is a whole nuther level of sociopathy.
This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
(10-31-2021, 02:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And the winners learned that it's cool to be an [BLEEP] hole instead of a good sport. That's the problem with today's society, people teach cutthroat values and then say that "life is gonna show these kids no mercy", it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that it's "coddling" to be a good sport by not throwing TDs and going for 2 point conversions when up by 100 points is a whole nuther level of sociopathy.
This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
(10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 02:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
No, [BLEEP] those kids. We better then them and they need to taste our [BLEEP].
(10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 02:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
And this proves what? Absolutely nothing.
....I wonder if NIL played any factor in the kid still being in the game to inflate his stat line. Gotta get those big numbers and name recognition, so next season he can make that sweet sweet endorsement $.
The winning HC deserves to be called onto the carpet for keeping his QB in the game. There's probably a LOT of guys on that team that either don't get a lot of PT or have yet to see the field. Open up the depth chart, let them and their families have a chance to cheer them on. It sounds like your QB is moving on at the very least, might want to give the backup a few reps to see what you have to look forward to next season.
I like that some states go to a constantly running clock once a team has an all but insurmountable lead. Get the game over with, I doubt either team really wanted to prolong the beating or risk injury to any of the kids on the field. Truth be told, I'd be in favor of calling any game once a team gets to 50+ points and a 20-point lead. Stats or concessions aren't THAT important.
(10-31-2021, 12:35 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 11:53 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]If your son was on the losing team you might have a different perspective. For that matter, how would you feel if your son was the backup QB on the winning team? With at 12 TD lead, he still can't get into the game because the coach cares more about running up the score than giving your kid a chance to play. Is that how you define sportsmanship?
If I was a parent on the winning team, I would be the first to go to the other sideline after the game to apologize to the opposing parents for the coach's actions.
No, I wouldn't. I would be ticked off at my team's coach for not preparing my kid and his teammates to at least be competitive. It was embarrassing how badly they played.
Again, if my kid was the backup QB on the winning team, I wouldn't be mad at all. Football is about playing the best players and that starting QB was having a fantastic game. No need to take him out, unless you are worried about him getting injured. Football is about winning. It's not about keeping players happy. Sportsmanship is all about accepting losses, learning from them and respecting who had the better team.
There is no mechanism at that level to offer any expectation of parity. Putting any blame on the losing coach for not having a P5 caliber player(s) to offset the competition is foolishness.
A good coach has his team ready, yes. But a good coach also recognizes when there is an opportunity to throw a bone to the kids that are busting their tails in practice every week and may not get another chance to get on the field. At some point you don't necessarily pump the brake, but at least take the foot off the gas. Get players experience when you can, because you don't know when an injury or other reason might mean the starters aren't taking the field.
(10-31-2021, 12:28 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 11:14 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The point is being a good sport, something that our world could use a lot more of. If you keep throwing the ball while up 7 touchdowns in a high school game then you are an [BLEEP] hole and should absolutely be removed from your position because you are teaching the wrong lessons to impressionable kids. Damn, what happened to common sense and decency in people? These aren't professionals, they're kids, so yeah, kick the guys when they're down and rub their faces in the dirt, that's what we should all be about.
These are high school kids. They are a lot closer to adulthood than they are young children. They shouldn't be coddled. Do you think the bad things in life are gonna let up on them when things get tough? No. They need to learn that bad things often pile on and they need to develop the skills to get passed it. Life is gonna show these kids no mercy, so why should the opposing team? It's a valuable learning experience. You pick yourself up, dust yourself off and learn from it.
That's the problem with kids in today's society. People want to coddle them and protect them from every little thing, so they grow up spoiled and entitled, thinking other people will protect them from all the bad things in life.
I don't see this as a coddling issue. The losing team was outmatched, and I think they knew it just as well as the other team did. I don't think anyone is upset over them taking an L.
I see this from the winning coach's perspective more as an opportunity to put the playbook down for a Friday night and let some of the supporting cast get on the stage for once. Yes, I am sure they love the feeling of playing on a winning team, but let them get on the field and say they DID something besides run wind sprints all summer and stand on the sidelines in their pads.
If I were a parent of a kid on that team, I'd be asking that coach a lot of questions about substitutions when the booster club came calling for a donation. That's another fun adult lesson - respect is earned just as well as it is lost. That, or wallets speak louder than words in today's world.
(10-31-2021, 04:23 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
And this proves what? Absolutely nothing.
That even professional coaches aren't as big an [BLEEP] as this high school coach is.
(10-31-2021, 02:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 12:42 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And the winners learned that it's cool to be an [BLEEP] hole instead of a good sport. That's the problem with today's society, people teach cutthroat values and then say that "life is gonna show these kids no mercy", it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The idea that it's "coddling" to be a good sport by not throwing TDs and going for 2 point conversions when up by 100 points is a whole nuther level of sociopathy.
This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
I think everyone else in the thread is looking at this from the winning team's perspective and you are reading it from the losing team's side.
You're right that sometimes the life lesson is "try as you might, you're still going to be less talented, rich, smart, handsome, whatever the comparative standard might be, and it sucks." But at the same time, there's also a lesson that "you may be more talented, rich, smart, handsome, etc, but that doesn't mean you need to grind that fact into those beneath you on the ladder."
Nobody is calling for the winning coach to run a literal cover zero to let the losers score an easy TD. Nobody is saying the losing team are gonna never want to play football again for the thrashing they took last weekend.
It was a [bleep] move by the coach. Maybe that's the lesson for these kids - you can bust your hump, but inevitably you are going to encounter [bleeps]. You know they're [bleeps]. Everyone in the vicinity know they're [bleeps]. Heck, even the [bleeps] know they're [bleeps], and that's the biggest reason why they are a [bleep]. You just have to try to navigate your way through life tolerating or avoiding their [bleepishness]. It sucks kid, but guess what your pessimistic dad has spent his entire adult life doing, too? People suck. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop trying to enjoy anything.
Sadly, I think me kid already sees this too much.
(11-01-2021, 11:22 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 02:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
I think everyone else in the thread is looking at this from the winning team's perspective and you are reading it from the losing team's side.
You're right that sometimes the life lesson is "try as you might, you're still going to be less talented, rich, smart, handsome, whatever the comparative standard might be, and it sucks." But at the same time, there's also a lesson that "you may be more talented, rich, smart, handsome, etc, but that doesn't mean you need to grind that fact into those beneath you on the ladder."
Nobody is calling for the winning coach to run a literal cover zero to let the losers score an easy TD. Nobody is saying the losing team are gonna never want to play football again for the thrashing they took last weekend.
It was a [bleep] move by the coach. Maybe that's the lesson for these kids - you can bust your hump, but inevitably you are going to encounter [bleeps]. You know they're [bleeps]. Everyone in the vicinity know they're [bleeps]. Heck, even the [bleeps] know they're [bleeps], and that's the biggest reason why they are a [bleep]. You just have to try to navigate your way through life tolerating or avoiding their [bleepishness]. It sucks kid, but guess what your pessimistic dad has spent his entire adult life doing, too? People suck. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop trying to enjoy anything.
Sadly, I think me kid already sees this too much.
Very much this. I don't fault the losers for losing, that happens and they shouldn't be shielded from it. I fault the winners for how they won and how they treated the losers, and there are valuable lessons there too that go beyond the football field. And isn't that the real purpose of scholastic sports, to learn values that we want to see expressed in their adult lives later on? Maybe it's because Jags fans don't have much experience with winning that these things are beyond some of them.
(10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 02:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is a very liberal way of thinking. You want kids to grow up and be independent of make a way for themselves in the world, but you also want to shelter them from all the bad stuff. When you shelter them, you end up with entitled brats who need "safe spaces" so their feelings don't get hurt. You can't have it both ways.
Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
I think that is [BLEEP] too. Sure, pull your future HOF QB, WR, etc. but why let up? I just can’t fathom why anyone would ever play a game and not give it their all. I don’t let my kid win. What’s that teach her? It teaches more practice is needed. She can take it from there if it’s something she wants to peruse or not. I’m not gonna let a 6 yr old think she’s the best soccer, basketball, baseball whatever player because I let her win and “we all had fun”. I’m not going to let her win a board game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a complete [BLEEP] hole. I’m not gonna reject every shot because I’m 6’2 full grown [BLEEP] adult and she may be 4ft. It may be considered good sportsmanship, but whatever. I know anytime I didn’t perform as well as I could, I spent many hours practicing to get better. And there are sports I’m good at (or was at the time) and others I wasn’t. I didn’t play organized basketball because I was a mediocre shot and just got rebounds. Baseball, hockey and football I was good at. I played all of those in organized leagues. Didn’t mean I threw the basketball in the trash. I still enjoy “trying” haha.
(11-01-2021, 06:33 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
I think that is [BLEEP] too. Sure, pull your future HOF QB, WR, etc. but why let up? I just can’t fathom why anyone would ever play a game and not give it their all. I don’t let my kid win. What’s that teach her? It teaches more practice is needed. She can take it from there if it’s something she wants to peruse or not. I’m not gonna let a 6 yr old think she’s the best soccer, basketball, baseball whatever player because I let her win and “we all had fun”. I’m not going to let her win a board game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a complete [BLEEP] hole. I’m not gonna reject every shot because I’m 6’2 full grown [BLEEP] adult and she may be 4ft. It may be considered good sportsmanship, but whatever. I know anytime I didn’t perform as well as I could, I spent many hours practicing to get better. And there are sports I’m good at (or was at the time) and others I wasn’t. I didn’t play organized basketball because I was a mediocre shot and just got rebounds. Baseball, hockey and football I was good at. I played all of those in organized leagues. Didn’t mean I threw the basketball in the trash. I still enjoy “trying” haha.
Remember when Marrone went for 2 at the end of the Jets game? That's the kind of stuff that's nonsensical that I'm talking about. No reason to do that kind of bush league garbage, just like there's no reason to call pass plays when your football team is up by 40.
(11-01-2021, 06:33 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
I think that is [BLEEP] too. Sure, pull your future HOF QB, WR, etc. but why let up? I just can’t fathom why anyone would ever play a game and not give it their all. I don’t let my kid win. What’s that teach her? It teaches more practice is needed. She can take it from there if it’s something she wants to peruse or not. I’m not gonna let a 6 yr old think she’s the best soccer, basketball, baseball whatever player because I let her win and “we all had fun”. I’m not going to let her win a board game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a complete [BLEEP] hole. I’m not gonna reject every shot because I’m 6’2 full grown [BLEEP] adult and she may be 4ft. It may be considered good sportsmanship, but whatever. I know anytime I didn’t perform as well as I could, I spent many hours practicing to get better. And there are sports I’m good at (or was at the time) and others I wasn’t. I didn’t play organized basketball because I was a mediocre shot and just got rebounds. Baseball, hockey and football I was good at. I played all of those in organized leagues. Didn’t mean I threw the basketball in the trash. I still enjoy “trying” haha.
I think there's a line, especially when it's parent v. 6 year old. I mean you can Mutombo them all day long and waggle your finger after a savage block, but that alone isn't going to help them motivate to improve. Sometimes it's leaving the ball unprotected so they can get a steal, or kick a lazy goal shot so they can defend. They get the taste of success and want to keep getting that. Improve as they do, so that they don't just revert to learned helplessness and assume that trying isn't going to yield any different results.
I did this a lot when my son was learning chess. Games could have lasted 10 moves at most if I wanted to dunk on simple mistakes. Instead, a lot of times we would pause action, and I would ask, "What am I trying to do by moving this piece where I did?" or "Is there a better move than that one?" and we would talk the strategy through. He still is stuck thinking just about his next move, and not two or three down the road, or about counters to his move, but starting with those questions early help him more than if I just take his king without any exposition of the hows or whys along the way.
He just started running cross country this fall. A week or so in, we decided to do a run through a nearby park and I (stupidly) decided to run alongside him to motivate and show him running is more about persevering through the discouraging voice in your head than being some superhuman. It was tough, we were both winded, but I busted my tail to finish first, but not by much. A few weeks later, he's been training with the team daily, and I've been on my butt staring at a monitor, and we decided to do a run through the neighborhood. He whooped me bad, and I let him have a chance to gloat a bit about it. It was good to see him realize the reward of his efforts.
(11-01-2021, 06:33 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-31-2021, 03:15 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Dude. They don’t even do this in professional sports.
Once the game is out of hand, every team eases up.
I think that is [BLEEP] too. Sure, pull your future HOF QB, WR, etc. but why let up? I just can’t fathom why anyone would ever play a game and not give it their all. I don’t let my kid win. What’s that teach her? It teaches more practice is needed. She can take it from there if it’s something she wants to peruse or not. I’m not gonna let a 6 yr old think she’s the best soccer, basketball, baseball whatever player because I let her win and “we all had fun”. I’m not going to let her win a board game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a complete [BLEEP] hole. I’m not gonna reject every shot because I’m 6’2 full grown [BLEEP] adult and she may be 4ft. It may be considered good sportsmanship, but whatever. I know anytime I didn’t perform as well as I could, I spent many hours practicing to get better. And there are sports I’m good at (or was at the time) and others I wasn’t. I didn’t play organized basketball because I was a mediocre shot and just got rebounds. Baseball, hockey and football I was good at. I played all of those in organized leagues. Didn’t mean I threw the basketball in the trash. I still enjoy “trying” haha.
Because you don't want your best players getting hurt on meaningless plays.
When kids are young (4-10), the main goal is to learn the basic skills of each sport, and then as they get older they should focus on a one or two. If their main sport in high school is basketball, they should be playing other sports in the fall and spring to stay in shape as well as get other muscle groups stronger.
You beating your 6-year-old in sports is showing them nothing other than a grown man can beat them lol Which is kinda hilarious. "Yea. Take that 6 year old! You got nothin!" There needs to be a balance between teaching and hard lessons. A grown man beating a 6 year old handily teaches everyone nothing. More practice isn't going to have her beat you when she's that young. Now when she's older and in her teens? Things may be different.
Was this a display of poor sportsmanship?
Girls should maybe think twice before playing with the boys. OUCH.
Here I am I thinking I tend to take things literal over a written media. Good grief. No I do not let my 6 yr old win. But in her learning years I do allow some things to happen sports wise. I’m sorry i didn’t post our collective sports life and n full. But in general, no! I give her few breaks. I’ve been called an [BLEEP] more times I can count. But I raise my daughter very similar as I was raised. If anything negative can be said about that… I say good luck to you! Not to her, not to me.