Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

(10-31-2021, 06:33 PM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

Some of the draft picks could eventually become contributors, but there was definitely no need for the team to be this bad, and as bad as they are, that's with Trevor making a lot of it ( like the offensive line) play better than it is.

(10-31-2021, 06:33 PM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

Little and Tufele may still work out

Cisco too

Nonetheless-- with the draft capital and cap space available, this new regime really underperformed in improving the roster

Cincinnati looked no better last year before Burrow was hurt.

The more things change the more they stay same

Harris = Smith = Caldwell = Urban

As I asked in the game thread, why aren’t Little, Cisco and Tufele playing? If the roster is so devoid of talent, surely they should be playing.

There is no way but up to go from here.

(10-31-2021, 06:49 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Cincinnati looked no better last year before Burrow was hurt.

This is a giant nope, fella.  They looked a hell of a lot better than we do.

Miami is that bad. Lions, Dolphins, Jaguars and Texans are your dregs of the league.

We are zeros. And starting the next big losing streak.

(10-31-2021, 07:20 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2021, 06:49 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Cincinnati looked no better last year before Burrow was hurt.

This is a giant nope, fella.  They looked a hell of a lot better than we do.

Burrow and the bengals had two wins before his injury. One more then us currently. Not a hell of a lot better

(10-31-2021, 09:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2021, 07:20 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]This is a giant nope, fella.  They looked a hell of a lot better than we do.

Burrow and the bengals had two wins before his injury. One more then us currently. Not a hell of a lot better

Wins don't tell the whole story.

This team has looked terrible.

(10-31-2021, 06:33 PM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

Yeah, mostly. Agnew and Jones were solid pick ups. The coach staff won't play Little or Cisco, so who knows there.
But Campbell is not a good cb, imo. 

The coaches are bad. Top to bottom.

(10-31-2021, 06:33 PM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

That's a pretty safe assumption.

(10-31-2021, 06:33 PM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

Sadly, this will hurt for the remainder of this season and several seasons down the road.

If guys like Little, Campbell, Cisco, Tufele don't start making an impact on the field, we will never break the rebuilding cycle.

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(10-31-2021, 07:12 PM)Ordar Wrote: [ -> ]As I asked in the game thread, why aren’t Little, Cisco and Tufele playing? If the roster is so devoid of talent, surely they should be playing.

jars on the shelf need time to ferment.

(11-01-2021, 10:04 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2021, 06:33 PM)SodaCityJag14 Wrote: [ -> ]That we absolutely struck out on almost every draft pick, free agent, and coaching hire aside from Trevor? Pretty historic stuff

Sadly, this will hurt for the remainder of this season and several seasons down the road.

If guys like Little, Campbell, Cisco, Tufele don't start making an impact on the field, we will never break the rebuilding cycle.

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(10-31-2021, 07:12 PM)Ordar Wrote: [ -> ]As I asked in the game thread, why aren’t Little, Cisco and Tufele playing? If the roster is so devoid of talent, surely they should be playing.

jars on the shelf need time to ferment.

Campbell is making a significant impact on the field every time they throw the ball his way.

(11-01-2021, 10:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2021, 10:04 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Sadly, this will hurt for the remainder of this season and several seasons down the road.

If guys like Little, Campbell, Cisco, Tufele don't start making an impact on the field, we will never break the rebuilding cycle.

---

jars on the shelf need time to ferment.

Campbell is making a significant impact on the field every time they throw the ball his way.

Truth

(10-31-2021, 09:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2021, 07:20 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]This is a giant nope, fella.  They looked a hell of a lot better than we do.

Burrow and the bengals had two wins before his injury. One more then us currently. Not a hell of a lot better

Yep. Cincy sucked bad. They were almost in our territory.

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(11-01-2021, 10:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2021, 10:04 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Sadly, this will hurt for the remainder of this season and several seasons down the road.

If guys like Little, Campbell, Cisco, Tufele don't start making an impact on the field, we will never break the rebuilding cycle.

---

jars on the shelf need time to ferment.

Campbell is making a significant impact on the field every time they throw the ball his way.

He would be a decent player if he could pack on about 30 lbs of muscle and move up to LB. A CB who can’t turn his head is almost worthless.

Free Agency: Hit, Miss, Irrelevant

CB - Shaq Griffin - Hit, he's been fantastic as our top corner and has handled some tough assignments really well, shame there's no consistent pass rush to help him out. Had a few dropped picks but that's why he's a CB not a WR.
LB Damien Wilson - Hit, the main shotcaller in our Defense and has vastly exceeded my expectations this season.
WR - Marvin Jones - Hit, our leading WR this year and Lawrence's favorite target.
KR/WR Jamal Agnew - Hit, our most explosive player and may be our only probowl candidate besides James Robinson
TE - Chris Manhertz - Hit, signed to be a blocking TE that helps the run game and can catch the occasional pass (budlight version of Marcedes Lewis)
FS - Rayshawn Jenkins - Hit, upgrade over Wilson for sure, likely not a long term fixture after his current contract expires)
DL - Jihad Ward - Hit, he's been a solid rotational player and seems to have found a niche as an inside rusher on 3rd and long and nickel type sets.
DT - Roy Robertson-Harris - Miss (overpaid for what he's bringing to the table)
DT - Adam Gotsis - Irrelevant, doing alright in the snaps he gets considering he's on a minum
SS - Josh Jones - Irrelevant
QB - CJ Beathard - Hit, played great in preseason, fine as a backup since we had to move on from Minshew
RB - Carlos Hyde - Miss, he's just not very good at football and is significantly worse than James Robinson, ineffective his first tenure and nothing has changed.
P - Logan Cooke - Hit, one of the better punters in the league and continuing how much we punt i'm very glad we don't have a Matt Turk out there to find another way to "Murphy's law" this team
TE - James O'Shaugnessy - Irrelevant, he's the best TE we had pre Dan Arnold trade but he's nothing to write home about.
SS - Rudy Ford - Irrelevant, signed to be depth at Safety, great special teams player, good vet guy in the locker room
WR - Phillip Dorsett - Miss, he's been washed for years, teams keep taking a chance on his speed for god knows what reason
WR - Tyron Johnson - Miss (claimed off waivers from final cuts) again his speed was why he was signed, and we got rid of collin johnson to add him, neither seem like they'll amount to anything though.

Overall I don't think our Free Agency class was bad, in a vacuum the majority are useful players who can play in this league. There were a few overpays like Roy Robertson-Harris, and a few head scratching (aka; BAD) moves like re-signing Hyde. I think the bigger issue is that the last regime had a firesale on any Defender of use (AJ Bouye, Calais Campbell, Malik Jackson, Jalen Ramsey, Yannick Ngakoue, Dante Fowler etc.) we may have added solid players but it feels like treading water because the overall talent that departed was superior to the total level of talent added. We just have so many holes that it was impossible to patch in one off-season, granted I think that the resources could have been better allocated to be honest.

As for the Draft, I still don't HATE the Etienne pick, I remember having similar thoughts about "luxury pick" when MJD was drafted as Fred Taylor was still running well and we had Greg Jones who had shown promise.

Trevor Lawrence - Hit, Franchise QB.
Travis Etienne - Jury Still out, really untimely injury, much like with Fowler i'm going to reserve judgement until he gets on the field
Tyson Campbell - Miss, didn't understand the pick there and he's just so raw, this regime is obsessed with speed and athleticism but not the ability to play the game it seems
Walker Little - Jury Still out, I get the feeling that he was always going to need 1-2 years (like Bartch with a higher pedigree) after playing 1.5 years in college and essentially being away from the game for 2 years. He's a bluechip LT that barring the circumstances of his injury & then Covid could have been a top 5/top 10 overall pick, I have a feeling Cam Robinson is GONEEEEEE (difficult to franchise tag multiple years in a row; and i think he just wants to go to an organization that'll win sooner rather than the pace we're on) so it's nice to know we're at least trying to be proactive and grooming a replacement.
Andre Cisco - Jury Still out, 1st rounder who fell to the 3rd because of injury. Wingard is inexplicably playing over him. Once we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs there is absolutely 0 reason to not play him (not the same for Little as i don't want to sacrifice any protection for Trevor in the name of "development") But we need to find out what we have in Cisco before the offseason
Jay Tufele - Jury Still out, barely been active on game day, another opt out with high upside. The question is .... can this coaching staff actually COACH and DEVELOP!! I like the clay we have in a lot of these guys but i'm not sure if i trust the coaches to mold that clay
Jordan Smith - Jury Still out, much like Jay Tufele, he's another jar on the shelf for the front 7 that seemingly hasn't been able to get on the field. I'd like to see them play Tufele and Smith in the last few games of the season just to get their feet wet, and because nothing they do will impact Trevor Lawrence's healthy negatively if they play
Luke Farrell - Irrelevant, backup TE that's 3rd behind Arnold, Manhertz (debatably O'Shag as well) anything he contributes is a bonus hopefully he can grow into another O'Shag that makes the most of his snaps and contributes on ST's
Jalen Camp - Miss, didn't make the team, another raw player that has speed and seemingly nothing else. I get the feeling that the organization values speed first and then thinks it can teach/coach everything else (Dorsett, Tyron Johnson, Jalen Camp etc.) I think it might be endemic of their inability to properly evaluate the WR position.

All in all, we did add some talent; we drafted too many projects with high upside. Which for a long rebuild kinda works? But at the same time it's painful to watch. Since we're not in danger of going 0-17 anymore I think we should just let the kids play and focus on developing them during this dark lost season.

The kool aid drinker has entered the room.

(11-01-2021, 07:40 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]Free Agency: Hit, Miss, Irrelevant

CB - Shaq Griffin - Hit, he's been fantastic as our top corner and has handled some tough assignments really well, shame there's no consistent pass rush to help him out. Had a few dropped picks but that's why he's a CB not a WR.
LB Damien Wilson - Hit, the main shotcaller in our Defense and has vastly exceeded my expectations this season.
WR - Marvin Jones - Hit, our leading WR this year and Lawrence's favorite target.
KR/WR Jamal Agnew - Hit, our most explosive player and may be our only probowl candidate besides James Robinson
TE - Chris Manhertz - Hit, signed to be a blocking TE that helps the run game and can catch the occasional pass (budlight version of Marcedes Lewis)
FS - Rayshawn Jenkins - Hit,  upgrade over Wilson for sure, likely not a long term fixture after his current contract expires)
DL - Jihad Ward - Hit, he's been a solid rotational player and seems to have found a niche as an inside rusher on 3rd and long and nickel type sets.
DT - Roy Robertson-Harris - Miss (overpaid for what he's bringing to the table)
DT - Adam Gotsis - Irrelevant, doing alright in the snaps he gets considering he's on a minum
SS - Josh Jones - Irrelevant
QB - CJ Beathard - Hit, played great in preseason, fine as a backup since we had to move on from Minshew
RB - Carlos Hyde - Miss, he's just not very good at football and is significantly worse than James Robinson, ineffective his first tenure and nothing has changed.
P - Logan Cooke - Hit, one of the better punters in the league and continuing how much we punt i'm very glad we don't have a Matt Turk out there to find another way to "Murphy's law" this team
TE - James O'Shaugnessy - Irrelevant, he's the best TE we had pre Dan Arnold trade but he's nothing to write home about.
SS - Rudy Ford - Irrelevant, signed to be depth at Safety, great special teams player, good vet guy in the locker room
WR - Phillip Dorsett - Miss, he's been washed for years, teams keep taking a chance on his speed for god knows what reason
WR - Tyron Johnson - Miss (claimed off waivers from final cuts) again his speed was why he was signed, and we got rid of collin johnson to add him, neither seem like they'll amount to anything though.

Overall I don't think our Free Agency class was bad, in a vacuum the majority are useful players who can play in this league. There were a few overpays like Roy Robertson-Harris, and a few head scratching (aka; BAD) moves like re-signing Hyde. I think the bigger issue is that the last regime had a firesale on any Defender of use (AJ Bouye, Calais Campbell, Malik Jackson, Jalen Ramsey, Yannick Ngakoue, Dante Fowler etc.) we may have added solid players but it feels like treading water because the overall talent that departed was superior to the total level of talent added. We just have so many holes that it was impossible to patch in one off-season, granted I think that the resources could have been better allocated to be honest.

As for the Draft, I still don't HATE the Etienne pick, I remember having similar thoughts about "luxury pick" when MJD was drafted as Fred Taylor was still running well and we had Greg Jones who had shown promise.

Trevor Lawrence - Hit, Franchise QB.
Travis Etienne - Jury Still out, really untimely injury, much like with Fowler i'm going to reserve judgement until he gets on the field
Tyson Campbell - Miss, didn't understand the pick there and he's just so raw, this regime is obsessed with speed and athleticism but not the ability to play the game it seems
Walker Little - Jury Still out, I get the feeling that he was always going to need 1-2 years (like Bartch with a higher pedigree) after playing 1.5 years in college and essentially being away from the game for 2 years. He's a bluechip LT that barring the circumstances of his injury & then Covid could have been a top 5/top 10 overall pick, I have a feeling Cam Robinson is GONEEEEEE (difficult to franchise tag multiple years in a row; and i think he just wants to go to an organization that'll win sooner rather than the pace we're on) so it's nice to know we're at least trying to be proactive and grooming a replacement.
Andre Cisco - Jury Still out, 1st rounder who fell to the 3rd because of injury. Wingard is inexplicably playing over him. Once we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs there is absolutely 0 reason to not play him (not the same for Little as i don't want to sacrifice any protection for Trevor in the name of "development") But we need to find out what we have in Cisco before the offseason
Jay Tufele - Jury Still out, barely been active on game day, another opt out with high upside. The question is .... can this coaching staff actually COACH and DEVELOP!! I like the clay we have in a lot of these guys but i'm not sure if i trust the coaches to mold that clay
Jordan Smith - Jury Still out, much like Jay Tufele, he's another jar on the shelf for the front 7 that seemingly hasn't been able to get on the field. I'd like to see them play Tufele and Smith in the last few games of the season just to get their feet wet, and because nothing they do will impact Trevor Lawrence's healthy negatively if they play
Luke Farrell - Irrelevant, backup TE that's 3rd behind Arnold, Manhertz (debatably O'Shag as well) anything he contributes is a bonus hopefully he can grow into another O'Shag that makes the most of his snaps and contributes on ST's
Jalen Camp - Miss, didn't make the team, another raw player that has speed and seemingly nothing else. I get the feeling that the organization values speed first and then thinks it can teach/coach everything else (Dorsett, Tyron Johnson, Jalen Camp etc.) I think it might be endemic of their inability to properly evaluate the WR position.

All in all, we did add some talent; we drafted too many projects with high upside. Which for a long rebuild kinda works? But at the same time it's painful to watch. Since we're not in danger of going 0-17 anymore I think we should just let the kids play and focus on developing them during this dark lost season.

Please send koolaid