New law 'penalizes citizens for opposing worldview of those in power'
'This ordinance is worthy of a totalitarian state, not a constitutional republic'
A “fairness ordinance” in a Nebraska city has triggered a firestorm, with one state pro-family organization claiming it will trample on First Amendment rights.
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https://www.wnd.com/2022/02/new-law-pena...I1BI5t4YcU
I don't know a lot about the law in question, except that one of the things it targets is "conversion therapy." To me, "conversion therapy" is child abuse and should be outlawed. You cannot persuade or brainwash a gay teenager to not be gay. It's not a choice.
(02-23-2022, 08:40 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know a lot about the law in question, except that one of the things it targets is "conversion therapy." To me, "conversion therapy" is child abuse and should be outlawed. You cannot persuade or brainwash a gay teenager to not be gay. It's not a choice.
That's an perfectly fine opinion.
(02-23-2022, 08:40 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know a lot about the law in question, except that one of the things it targets is "conversion therapy." To me, "conversion therapy" is child abuse and should be outlawed. You cannot persuade or brainwash a gay teenager to not be gay. It's not a choice.
There are predispositions and then there are choices we make based on those predispositions.
Whether any of those choices are inherently bad or punishable is a separate question.
If and to what extent these choices should be encouraged or discouraged in youth is another separate question.
If so, how to encourage or discourage those choices, is a third separate question
Regardless of how we answer any of the above, they are choices.
And homosexuals will admit this, if they feel they are in a safe space.
The only reason they pushed the "born this way" idea for so long was because they were told it would help their legal arguments for gay marriage.
(02-23-2022, 03:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2022, 08:40 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know a lot about the law in question, except that one of the things it targets is "conversion therapy." To me, "conversion therapy" is child abuse and should be outlawed. You cannot persuade or brainwash a gay teenager to not be gay. It's not a choice.
There are predispositions and then there are choices we make based on those predispositions.
Whether any of those choices are inherently bad or punishable is a separate question.
If and to what extent these choices should be encouraged or discouraged in youth is another separate question.
If so, how to encourage or discourage those choices, is a third separate question
Regardless of how we answer any of the above, they are choices.
And homosexuals will admit this, if they feel they are in a safe space.
The only reason they pushed the "born this way" idea for so long was because they were told it would help their legal arguments for gay marriage.
That is total bull [BLEEP], Mike, what in the hell are you talking about?
Why would anyone choose to be gay? And if it's a choice, when did you make the choice to be straight? I certainly never made a choice to be straight, and I don't know anyone, gay or straight, who made a choice like that.
And you're alleging there's some kind of grand conspiracy among gays to push the "born this way" idea in order to get gay marriage?
You have lost your mind.
(02-23-2022, 04:33 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2022, 03:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]There are predispositions and then there are choices we make based on those predispositions.
Whether any of those choices are inherently bad or punishable is a separate question.
If and to what extent these choices should be encouraged or discouraged in youth is another separate question.
If so, how to encourage or discourage those choices, is a third separate question
Regardless of how we answer any of the above, they are choices.
And homosexuals will admit this, if they feel they are in a safe space.
The only reason they pushed the "born this way" idea for so long was because they were told it would help their legal arguments for gay marriage.
That is total bull [BLEEP], Mike, what in the hell are you talking about?
Why would anyone choose to be gay? And if it's a choice, when did you make the choice to be straight? I certainly never made a choice to be straight, and I don't know anyone, gay or straight, who made a choice like that.
And you're alleging there's some kind of grand conspiracy among gays to push the "born this way" idea in order to get gay marriage?
You have lost your mind.
If people are born gay, then why hasn't millions of years of evolution and genetic selection rendered them extinct? Hell, not even a million, even 5 to 10K should have done the trick. Assuming that they are 'true' homosexuals, and haven't co-opted heterosexual behavior by continuing to have children with females, or via fertilization, they shouldn't even be on this earth anymore. And that's the rub; they are not true to what they think is their 'born' state of gayness. Choosing to practice heterosexual behavior must really create a lot of dissonance for them internally, since they are now forced to act both gay and straight. People without a sexual country. While I don't support, condone or celebrate homosexuality in any way, shape or fashion, I respect a person saying that they chose to be gay (and lives it as a gay person, without playing hetero half the time) 10,000 times more than someone who claims it by birth. At least they are owning it. Claiming it as a trait of birth almost sounds like an excuse.
(02-23-2022, 04:33 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-23-2022, 03:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]There are predispositions and then there are choices we make based on those predispositions.
Whether any of those choices are inherently bad or punishable is a separate question.
If and to what extent these choices should be encouraged or discouraged in youth is another separate question.
If so, how to encourage or discourage those choices, is a third separate question
Regardless of how we answer any of the above, they are choices.
And homosexuals will admit this, if they feel they are in a safe space.
The only reason they pushed the "born this way" idea for so long was because they were told it would help their legal arguments for gay marriage.
That is total bull [BLEEP], Mike, what in the hell are you talking about?
Why would anyone choose to be gay? And if it's a choice, when did you make the choice to be straight? I certainly never made a choice to be straight, and I don't know anyone, gay or straight, who made a choice like that.
And you're alleging there's some kind of grand conspiracy among gays to push the "born this way" idea in order to get gay marriage?
You have lost your mind.
It's pretty hard to choose how you feel (predispositions), but it's relatively easy to choose how you act (choices).
I have very little choice about how the sight of a beautiful young woman makes me feel. But I have all manner of choices regarding if, and how, I interact with her. If I was instead attracted to young and beautiful men, my choices would be the same.
(02-23-2022, 08:40 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know a lot about the law in question, except that one of the things it targets is "conversion therapy." To me, "conversion therapy" is child abuse and should be outlawed. You cannot persuade or brainwash a gay teenager to not be gay. It's not a choice.
You could say the same about hormone therapy being pushed on minor children by our public school sexual educators as a by-product of gender reassignment.
That's a great example, NJC, but you can even make it less extreme. What if kid wanted to be gay but wasn't attracted to the same sex? Would progressives even bat an eye at programs designed to help children explore their sexuality?
(02-23-2022, 08:25 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]That's a great example, NJC, but you can even make it less extreme. What if kid wanted to be gay but wasn't attracted to the same sex? Would progressives even bat an eye at programs designed to help children explore their sexuality?
Is there actually a case of anyone ever wanting to be gay who was not gay already? I've never heard of such a case.
Besides, it defies logic. Why would anyone want to go through the difficulties gay people encounter in their lives, including beatings, murder, and employment discrimination? That's what makes it very far-fetched that being gay is a choice. No one with any sense would choose such a thing.
No. You don't use logic. You use a narrative. Otherwise, you wouldn't be busting out the oppressed gays trope. That hasn't been a thing for 10 years.
Homosexuality has gone up in teens by almost 15%. Mostly young women. There is literally shaming that occurs for men that don't want to sleep with trans women in some progressive circles. That used to be called homosexual. You don't think there's a small majority that feel pressure to have sex with the same sex? Really? Not anyone? If you don't think that's happening somewhere, we can't even have this discussion, because your head is buried in the sand.
(02-24-2022, 08:33 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]No. You don't use logic. You use a narrative. Otherwise, you wouldn't be busting out the oppressed gays trope. That hasn't been a thing for 10 years.
Homosexuality has gone up in teens by almost 15%. Mostly young women. There is literally shaming that occurs for men that don't want to sleep with trans women in some progressive circles. That used to be called homosexual. You don't think there's a small majority that feel pressure to have sex with the same sex? Really? Not anyone? If you don't think that's happening somewhere, we can't even have this discussion, because your head is buried in the sand.
Then I guess we can't have this discussion, because what you are saying is total bull [BLEEP].
(02-24-2022, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2022, 08:33 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]No. You don't use logic. You use a narrative. Otherwise, you wouldn't be busting out the oppressed gays trope. That hasn't been a thing for 10 years.
Homosexuality has gone up in teens by almost 15%. Mostly young women. There is literally shaming that occurs for men that don't want to sleep with trans women in some progressive circles. That used to be called homosexual. You don't think there's a small majority that feel pressure to have sex with the same sex? Really? Not anyone? If you don't think that's happening somewhere, we can't even have this discussion, because your head is buried in the sand.
Then I guess we can't have this discussion, because what you are saying is total bull [BLEEP].
You mean you can't defend your point? I can give you plenty of examples of my position. FSG has already started.
(02-24-2022, 08:02 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2022, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Then I guess we can't have this discussion, because what you are saying is total bull [BLEEP].
You mean you can't defend your point? I can give you plenty of examples of my position. FSG has already started.
My husband has two co-workers whose daughters (who go to different schools) pulled out of their respective high school basketball and soccer teams due to being pressured by their teammates to "try the lesbian life" and when both girls said they weren't interested they were bullied for being homophobic. The pressure is there and it's real.
I was friends with a guy many years ago who had a bad relationship with his mother so he didn't trust women and his partner at the time (who was a sexual predator) used that to convince him he was gay. By the time he realized what he was a victim of he felt so much shame he thought his only option was to stay gay because no woman would want him. Not to mention the psychological trauma of that whole situation.
I have another friend who, while growing up was sexually abused by his mother and many of her male companions. He thought for years that he was gay even though he was attracted to women. Those men didn't just sodomize his body, but also his mind by convincing him he wanted what they were giving him otherwise why would he let them? Nevermind he was a fing
child being forced against his will.
(02-25-2022, 01:54 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2022, 08:02 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You mean you can't defend your point? I can give you plenty of examples of my position. FSG has already started.
My husband has two co-workers whose daughters (who go to different schools) pulled out of their respective high school basketball and soccer teams due to being pressured by their teammates to "try the lesbian life" and when both girls said they weren't interested they were bullied for being homophobic. The pressure is there and it's real.
That's awful. Private or public schools?
Did the parent approach the school?
(02-24-2022, 08:02 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2022, 08:49 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Then I guess we can't have this discussion, because what you are saying is total bull [BLEEP].
You mean you can't defend your point? I can give you plenty of examples of my position. FSG has already started.
You said, "If you don't think this is happening somewhere, we can't have this discussion..."
I don't think what you described is happening somewhere. So, according to you, we cannot have this discussion. That's what you said.
It's okay. I agree with you that sometimes, people are so far apart on a subject, it's pointless to argue about it.
You don't think there's people out there being pressured into same-sex relationships? It's not even a possibility to you?
(02-25-2022, 08:42 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You don't think there's people out there being pressured into same-sex relationships? It's not even a possibility to you?
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If a guy came up to me and said, "Hey, you're kind of cute, let's go get it on." I would probably respond with something like, "I'm flattered, but I'm straight. Have a nice day." Would I think I was being "pressured" into having a same-sex relationship? No, not really, but I don't know what your definition of "pressured" is.
Give me a scenario, and I'll give you my opinion of its plausibility.
(02-25-2022, 11:41 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2022, 08:42 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You don't think there's people out there being pressured into same-sex relationships? It's not even a possibility to you?
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If a guy came up to me and said, "Hey, you're kind of cute, let's go get it on." I would probably respond with something like, "I'm flattered, but I'm straight. Have a nice day." Would I think I was being "pressured" into having a same-sex relationship? No, not really, but I don't know what your definition of "pressured" is.
Give me a scenario, and I'll give you my opinion of its plausibility.
Very myopic view.
Now imagine every single member of a sport telling you to at least try being gay. Every single person. C'mon, if you haven't TRIED, you don't really KNOW... c'mon, don't be a homophobe, at least try it. C'mon. Try.
Here's a good way to understand it... ya know those [BLEEP] guys that keep harassing women to sleep with them? That's basically it. Except you're the victim for a change.