Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

https://news.yahoo.com/think-d-impressed...15289.html

He just commented about this on his radio show. He stands behind his words saying the city has big potential and the leadership owes its citizens and the Jaguars so much more.

Yup.

(04-06-2022, 10:02 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]https://news.yahoo.com/think-d-impressed...15289.html

He just commented about this on his radio show. He stands behind his words saying the city has big potential and the leadership owes its citizens and the Jaguars so much more.

Yup.

I'll get in trouble if I say the real reason our city has been held back the last 40 years...

But it starts with F.

In the middle there's a B.

And at the end there's a C.

(04-06-2022, 10:08 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 10:02 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]https://news.yahoo.com/think-d-impressed...15289.html

He just commented about this on his radio show. He stands behind his words saying the city has big potential and the leadership owes its citizens and the Jaguars so much more.

Yup.

I'll get in trouble if I say the real reason our city has been held back the last 40 years...

But it starts with F.

In the middle there's a B.

And at the end there's a C.

Lol yeah that's it

I was never good at Wheel of Fortune. Can I buy a vowel?

WORDLE is more fun

(04-06-2022, 11:23 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I was never good at Wheel of Fortune. Can I buy a vowel?

It's an acronym but I shall say no more. lol.

It's pretty obvious... I mean they've held back downtown my whole life.

(04-06-2022, 11:33 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 11:23 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I was never good at Wheel of Fortune. Can I buy a vowel?

It's an acronym but I shall say no more. lol.

It's pretty obvious... I mean they've held back downtown my whole life.

There have probably been some instances, but for 40 years? come on man. It couldn't be that the area is crime ridden after dark, that City Council voted against Lot J, that the Shipyards stagnated for years, that major corporations and small businesses for years didn't want to centralize there, that City Planning/City Council bungled attempt after attempt to revitalize downtown but were derailed either by greed or stupidity, and all due to a single institution? I guess they were responsible for the demise of the Landing as well. If anything, that one institution helped property values downtown by buying up and renovating abandoned pieces of [BLEEP] buildings that would have otherwise been rotting crack houses. One institution held back an entire downtown from developing, an institution that is now selling 9 of the 10 buildings they currently own? How influential could they even be? As I've posted in other threads before, I had a front row seat watching this City Planning debacle for 16 years. Sounds more like you are setting up a strawman. Grinding personal axes, perhaps?

Ooooohhh, I got it now. Yes, that has been a problem.

(04-06-2022, 12:00 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 11:33 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]It's an acronym but I shall say no more. lol.

It's pretty obvious... I mean they've held back downtown my whole life.

There have probably been some instances, but for 40 years?  come on man.  It couldn't be that the area is crime ridden after dark, that City Council voted against Lot J, that the Shipyards stagnated for years, that major corporations and small businesses for years didn't want to centralize there, that City Planning/City Council bungled attempt after attempt to revitalize downtown but were derailed either by greed or stupidity, and all due to a single institution?  I guess they were responsible for the demise of the Landing as well.  One institution held back an entire downtown from developing, an institution that is now selling 9 of the 10 buildings they currently own?  How influential could they be?  As I've posted in other threads before, I had a front row seat watching this City Planning debacle for 16 years.  Sounds more like you are setting up a strawman.  Grinding personal axes, perhaps?

I mean when there's stupid laws saying no establishments serving alcohol can be within 500 feet of a property owned by a "C" word and they purposely and strategically bought tiny parcels of land so that no bars or nightclubs could be opened for like 20 years... yea that's pretty darn bad.

(04-06-2022, 12:05 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 12:00 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]There have probably been some instances, but for 40 years?  come on man.  It couldn't be that the area is crime ridden after dark, that City Council voted against Lot J, that the Shipyards stagnated for years, that major corporations and small businesses for years didn't want to centralize there, that City Planning/City Council bungled attempt after attempt to revitalize downtown but were derailed either by greed or stupidity, and all due to a single institution?  I guess they were responsible for the demise of the Landing as well.  One institution held back an entire downtown from developing, an institution that is now selling 9 of the 10 buildings they currently own?  How influential could they be?  As I've posted in other threads before, I had a front row seat watching this City Planning debacle for 16 years.  Sounds more like you are setting up a strawman.  Grinding personal axes, perhaps?

I mean when there's stupid laws saying no establishments serving alcohol can be within 500 feet of a property owned by a "C" word and they purposely and strategically bought tiny parcels of land so that no bars or nightclubs could be opened for like 20 years... yea that's pretty darn bad.

Do you even know the layout of downtown? 500 feet is nothing. There is plenty of developable real estate further away than 500 feet from any of the 'C' buildings downtown, and yet, it doesn't develop. Again, case in point, the Landing. Why? Also, all that property is lumped together for those 'C's. How is that strategic?

(04-06-2022, 12:12 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 12:05 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]I mean when there's stupid laws saying no establishments serving alcohol can be within 500 feet of a property owned by a "C" word and they purposely and strategically bought tiny parcels of land so that no bars or nightclubs could be opened for like 20 years... yea that's pretty darn bad.

Do you even know the layout of downtown?  500 feet is nothing.  There is plenty of developable real estate further away than 500 feet from any of the 'C' buildings downtown, and yet, it doesn't develop.  Again, case in point, the Landing.  Why?  Also, all that property is lumped together for those 'C's.  How is that strategic?

I said parcels of land.

I didn't say buildings.

Literally anything owned by the "C". It could be 15 feet of nothing... but if it's next to something that could be a fun place? Nope. Stays a nothing building that just deteriorates.

Oh and I was wrong.. it's 500 feet if you're selling liquor.

There shall be not less than 1,500 feet from an established school or church for the on-premises consumption of alcoholic beverages, not in conjunction with the service of food, except as specifically provided herein.

So bars and nightclubs? 1,500 feet..... basically... this city has been screwed for a very long time by a very specific group of people. Like pretty much all of downtown is within 6000 feet (obviously not square footage... but look at the width and length of downtown...its not much)... and if they own 30 properties all within that?

(04-06-2022, 12:14 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 12:12 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Do you even know the layout of downtown?  500 feet is nothing.  There is plenty of developable real estate further away than 500 feet from any of the 'C' buildings downtown, and yet, it doesn't develop.  Again, case in point, the Landing.  Why?  Also, all that property is lumped together for those 'C's.  How is that strategic?

I said parcels of land.

I didn't say buildings.

Literally anything owned by the "C". It could be 15 feet of nothing... but if it's next to something that could be a fun place? Nope. Stays a nothing building that just deteriorates.

Oh and I was wrong.. it's 500 feet if you're selling liquor.

There shall be not less than 1,500 feet from an established school or church for the on-premises consumption of alcoholic beverages, not in conjunction with the service of food, except as specifically provided herein.

So bars and nightclubs? 1,500 feet..... basically... this city has been screwed for a very long time by a very specific group of people. Like pretty much all of downtown is within 6000 feet (obviously not square footage... but look at the width and length of downtown...its not much)... and if they own 30 properties all within that?

Point taken.

If it's truly vacant parcels, then that's a stupid rule and should be changed (if it already hasn't), tho I'm not sure how a vacant parcel translates to becoming a 'church', since it's not being used as such. That's like saying that raw land that I might own becomes zoned residential because I own another parcel somewhere with a house on it. Outside of the obvious structures, I wouldn't be aware of how the ownership of vacant land breaks out.

It still really doesn't fully explain the lack of development tho. From Adams Street down to the river front, there are currently places that have served alcohol, and they were there during the 30 years I worked downtown. There have been nightclubs on Adams/Bay/Monroe Streets, all that have come and gone. The Landing had retail shopping and nightclubs/bars/restaurants. As far back as when I started working there in 1981. So no, it can't all be explained by/blamed on the "C" word.

Some better explanations:
Crime/perception of crime
Limited parking
Jacksonville by nature and by City Charter being a decentralized city limit (Consolidation)
Government property occupying valuable river front land (former City Hall, former JEA Southside Generating Plant)
Ugly industry (all of Tallyrand Avenue, Maxwell House, City Jail)
Poor/corrupt City Planning
No downtown residential presence to support small businesses beyond the breakfast/lunch periods, or to support nightlife establishments.
Poor/incomplete public transportation (monorail unconnected to suburbia)
Terrible inner city schools
Limited consumer infrastructure (gas/food/retail shopping)

There are plenty of abandoned buildings that could be converted to residential housing. A couple have actually happened during the last 25 years. Meanwhile, this same gentrification has happened in other cities with much better results. Some that I am personally familiar with due to work travel are NYC/St Louis/Chicago/Philly/San Fran/San Diego and Seattle. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think that alcohol/nightlife is the only factor for people in choosing to live downtown. For a certain demographic, maybe. But more than a single demographic will be needed to get downtown developed. And it will take more than a glitzy entertainment center that many may want to visit but few want to live next to.

(04-06-2022, 12:00 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2022, 11:33 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]It's an acronym but I shall say no more. lol.

It's pretty obvious... I mean they've held back downtown my whole life.

There have probably been some instances, but for 40 years?  come on man.  It couldn't be that the area is crime ridden after dark, that City Council voted against Lot J, that the Shipyards stagnated for years, that major corporations and small businesses for years didn't want to centralize there, that City Planning/City Council bungled attempt after attempt to revitalize downtown but were derailed either by greed or stupidity, and all due to a single institution?  I guess they were responsible for the demise of the Landing as well.  If anything, that one institution helped property values downtown by buying up and renovating abandoned pieces of [BLEEP] buildings that would have otherwise been rotting crack houses. One institution held back an entire downtown from developing, an institution that is now selling 9 of the 10 buildings they currently own?  How influential could they even be?  As I've posted in other threads before, I had a front row seat watching this City Planning debacle for 16 years.  Sounds more like you are setting up a strawman.  Grinding personal axes, perhaps?

FBC is cleaning up its act and selling off its land, finally.
That might kick off some progress.
Today.
We could have had that progress 30 years ago if it wasn't for that institution trying to keep alcohol out of the downtown area.  
We could be talking about the great clubs and venues that have come and gone and stayed over the last 30 years around the Florida Theater and City Hall and the Courthouse.  
Oh well, can't change the past.
We can change the future though.

We also lacked the developers we needed to really transform downtown. That is something else that has changed. At the rate this place is growing and developing, big time investors are beginning to knock at the door.

(04-06-2022, 07:45 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]We also lacked the developers we needed to really transform downtown. That is something else that has changed. At the rate this place is growing and developing, big time investors are beginning to knock at the door.

It’s only a matter of time. As I’ve said here before, Jacksonville has an inferiority complex. The population boom caused by blue state flight hopefully changes that. Additionally, a consistently winning Jaguars team would be beneficial for focusing development downtown.

I don't want Jacksonville to grow, personally. I just think it's inevitable.

(04-06-2022, 10:02 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]https://news.yahoo.com/think-d-impressed...15289.html

He just commented about this on his radio show. He stands behind his words saying the city has big potential and the leadership owes its citizens and the Jaguars so much more.

Yup.

Trying to get home from 800 Water Street today just shows how right Kilmeade is.  Festival at the old Landing site closing streets, combined with 95 south on ramp being closed and all of these @#&*&$$#@* One-way streets!