(05-01-2022, 10:25 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]So we're basically combining the trades and giving Baalke praise for giving up 3 6ths and a 7th to get a guy who was literally 100 picks lower on the consensus board and to move up like 15 slots in the draft a year later?
People were making fun of us for being the first team to ever make a move back for a future years pick and lose value on the draft pick value sheet (I can't imagine someone has tracked all of that, but I guess they do). We should have gotten a significantly better pick for moving back a year and throwing in a 7th rounder.
I couldn't give two squirts in an outhouse for what "people" think of some arbitrary value chart. If you listened to the presser, it was obvious the move to get next year's pick was in the works before the trade for moving up to get the back they wanted. On day three, who really cares if a guy is picked in the 5th or the 6th?
(05-01-2022, 06:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Which basically means we did a 3-way deal which netted us a 4th round pick next year in exchange for two 6th round picks this year, and still managed to draft the guy we wanted in the 5th round.
Nice Post. I like the analysis. One thing I do want to point out is the fact that our 6th rounds picks that we traded off were #1 and #9 (early picks in those rounds). I still like the deal but our 4th round pick from the Bucs will likely be a very late 4th rounder since TB will make the playoffs given their weak division.
(05-01-2022, 01:52 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 06:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Which basically means we did a 3-way deal which netted us a 4th round pick next year in exchange for two 6th round picks this year, and still managed to draft the guy we wanted in the 5th round.
Nice Post. I like the analysis. One thing I do want to point out is the fact that our 6th rounds picks that we traded off were #1 and #9 (early picks in those rounds). I still like the deal but our 4th round pick from the Bucs will likely be a very late 4th rounder since TB will make the playoffs given their weak division.
Thanks. I'm not saying we made some kind of great deal; I'm just saying Baalke appears to be capable of making deals and operating under pressure. He appears to be somewhat competent, in contrast to the way we have painted him for several months.
People act like it has to be all one way or all the other way, which is typical for a message board. People stake out an extreme position and campaign for it like their life depended on it. Baalke is not as evil and incompetent and hated around the league as his detractors (including me) have painted him.
After seeing multiple negative comments about Baalke, I was very pleased when Khan indicated his intention of hiring someone over him. Khan did not give a specific time this would happen, but he certainly implied that it would be prior to the draft. Spielman was specifically named as a strong possibility for some position with the team. The fact that Khan mislead the fans is not Baalke's fault.
Regarding Baalke's track record as G.M. in acquiring talent, he has had his good and bad moments like most others in that position. NOBODY knows for sure how his first 2 draft classes as general manager will end up. The same goes for the group of free agents he signed during this off-season. The majority of people on this Board have been very negative about this draft. I totally get that since this team has made more blunders in the draft over the past 15 years than any other NFL team. Our high hopes for players like Justin Blackmon, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Jones, Leonard Fournette, Blake Bortles and Dante Fowler have left us greatly disappointed and feeling that this team will NEVER get it right. Who can blame these fans for their pessimism regarding any decisions made by this team? When it looked like they were finally getting it right in 2017-18, they proceeded to immediately return to football oblivion the next season.
All that being said, Marty, I appreciate your rational comments regarding Baalke and his decisions during this draft. If the Ravens had made the same trade to get Lloyd, the media would have called it "genius." I don't expect the Jaguars to immediately contend for the playoffs in 2022-23 as their offense still has legitimate question marks. Teams picking first in consecutive drafts have just too many weaknesses for dramatic turnarounds in one season. I expect this team to be legitimate playoff contenders in 2023-24 and beyond as they are now building a solid nucleus lead by Trevor Lawrence.
The net result is the Jaguars traded two mid 6th round picks and a mid 7th round pick for a future 4th round pick. I like it. Quality over quantity. We'll like having that pick next year. Besides, if we had kept those late round picks, we very well might have used them on players such as Kevin Austin, Andrew Mevis and Nick Ford who we ended up getting in UDFA anyway.
(05-01-2022, 08:08 AM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]So Baalke might be like that boss you had that you hated like all get out at first, but then slowly over time grew to respect and live with.
Baalke has tied his fate not to a qb but to a DE.
You are on point with Baalke This year’s first round pick was not so much a reach as a gamble. If this kid turns out to be the best pass rusher in the draft brilliant pick if not It could cost you your jobs.
(05-01-2022, 03:51 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]The net result is the Jaguars traded two mid 6th round picks and a mid 7th round pick for a future 4th round pick. I like it. Quality over quantity. We'll like having that pick next year. Besides, if we had kept those late round picks, we very well might have used them on players such as Kevin Austin, Andrew Mevis and Nick Ford who we ended up getting in UDFA anyway.
What's funny is the person that said we needed to do exactly that complains about doing it lol
(05-01-2022, 03:23 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]After seeing multiple negative comments about Baalke, I was very pleased when Khan indicated his intention of hiring someone over him. Khan did not give a specific time this would happen, but he certainly implied that it would be prior to the draft. Spielman was specifically named as a strong possibility for some position with the team. The fact that Khan mislead the fans is not Baalke's fault.
Regarding Baalke's track record as G.M. in acquiring talent, he has had his good and bad moments like most others in that position. NOBODY knows for sure how his first 2 draft classes as general manager will end up. The same goes for the group of free agents he signed during this off-season. The majority of people on this Board have been very negative about this draft. I totally get that since this team has made more blunders in the draft over the past 15 years than any other NFL team. Our high hopes for players like Justin Blackmon, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Jones, Leonard Fournette, Blake Bortles and Dante Fowler have left us greatly disappointed and feeling that this team will NEVER get it right. Who can blame these fans for their pessimism regarding any decisions made by this team? When it looked like they were finally getting it right in 2017-18, they proceeded to immediately return to football oblivion the next season.
All that being said, Marty, I appreciate your rational comments regarding Baalke and his decisions during this draft. If the Ravens had made the same trade to get Lloyd, the media would have called it "genius." I don't expect the Jaguars to immediately contend for the playoffs in 2022-23 as their offense still has legitimate question marks. Teams picking first in consecutive drafts have just too many weaknesses for dramatic turnarounds in one season. I expect this team to be legitimate playoff contenders in 2023-24 and beyond as they are now building a solid nucleus lead by Trevor Lawrence.
Agree with most of this. I think getting Pederson in the building as head coach is/was more important than any single draft pick for Trevor’s development. Giving him a defense that can actually get turnovers and provide field position will be a huge help, indirectly. I hope we finally see some competitive ball around Duval this year, even if a true playoff push does not occur this season. However, I will say, when 2017 started, I did not see us being good that year either, but enough pieces and luck came together. Let’s hope for at least fun to watch football next year.
(05-01-2022, 04:18 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 03:23 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]After seeing multiple negative comments about Baalke, I was very pleased when Khan indicated his intention of hiring someone over him. Khan did not give a specific time this would happen, but he certainly implied that it would be prior to the draft. Spielman was specifically named as a strong possibility for some position with the team. The fact that Khan mislead the fans is not Baalke's fault.
Regarding Baalke's track record as G.M. in acquiring talent, he has had his good and bad moments like most others in that position. NOBODY knows for sure how his first 2 draft classes as general manager will end up. The same goes for the group of free agents he signed during this off-season. The majority of people on this Board have been very negative about this draft. I totally get that since this team has made more blunders in the draft over the past 15 years than any other NFL team. Our high hopes for players like Justin Blackmon, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Jones, Leonard Fournette, Blake Bortles and Dante Fowler have left us greatly disappointed and feeling that this team will NEVER get it right. Who can blame these fans for their pessimism regarding any decisions made by this team? When it looked like they were finally getting it right in 2017-18, they proceeded to immediately return to football oblivion the next season.
All that being said, Marty, I appreciate your rational comments regarding Baalke and his decisions during this draft. If the Ravens had made the same trade to get Lloyd, the media would have called it "genius." I don't expect the Jaguars to immediately contend for the playoffs in 2022-23 as their offense still has legitimate question marks. Teams picking first in consecutive drafts have just too many weaknesses for dramatic turnarounds in one season. I expect this team to be legitimate playoff contenders in 2023-24 and beyond as they are now building a solid nucleus lead by Trevor Lawrence.
Agree with most of this. I think getting Pederson in the building as head coach is/was more important than any single draft pick for Trevor’s development. Giving him a defense that can actually get turnovers and provide field position will be a huge help, indirectly. I hope we finally see some competitive ball around Duval this year, even if a true playoff push does not occur this season. However, I will say, when 2017 started, I did not see us being good that year either, but enough pieces and luck came together. Let’s hope for at least fun to watch football next year.
Tacks got worse. Texans are bad. clots are going to be pretty good but there’s no reason the Jags can’t be 2nd in the division.
(05-01-2022, 04:22 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 04:18 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with most of this. I think getting Pederson in the building as head coach is/was more important than any single draft pick for Trevor’s development. Giving him a defense that can actually get turnovers and provide field position will be a huge help, indirectly. I hope we finally see some competitive ball around Duval this year, even if a true playoff push does not occur this season. However, I will say, when 2017 started, I did not see us being good that year either, but enough pieces and luck came together. Let’s hope for at least fun to watch football next year.
Tacks got worse. Texans are bad. clots are going to be pretty good but there’s no reason the Jags can’t be 2nd in the division.
2nd in the division lolol
Don't stop at the ceiling, reach for the stars!!
Like the optimism though lol
(05-01-2022, 03:51 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]The net result is the Jaguars traded two mid 6th round picks and a mid 7th round pick for a future 4th round pick. I like it. Quality over quantity. We'll like having that pick next year. Besides, if we had kept those late round picks, we very well might have used them on players such as Kevin Austin, Andrew Mevis and Nick Ford who we ended up getting in UDFA anyway.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is that this draft was considerably deeper than most. Because of covid giving players an optional extra season there were 1600 entrants into this draft, the normal draft usually has about 1200.
A 15 spot move up in a draft that has 400 fewer players probably puts us in about the same spot depth wise, and we're waiting a year later and gave up a 7th to boot.
(05-01-2022, 04:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 03:51 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]The net result is the Jaguars traded two mid 6th round picks and a mid 7th round pick for a future 4th round pick. I like it. Quality over quantity. We'll like having that pick next year. Besides, if we had kept those late round picks, we very well might have used them on players such as Kevin Austin, Andrew Mevis and Nick Ford who we ended up getting in UDFA anyway.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is that this draft was considerably deeper than most. Because of covid giving players an optional extra season there were 1600 entrants into this draft, the normal draft usually has about 1200.
A 15 spot move up in a draft that has 400 fewer players probably puts us in about the same spot depth wise, and we're waiting a year later and gave up a 7th to boot.
Interesting. I had not thought of that.
the 5th for a future 4th was a brilliant trade. If we went through this entire draft swapping a pick for a future higher round pick i'da been happy lol.
(05-01-2022, 04:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 03:51 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]The net result is the Jaguars traded two mid 6th round picks and a mid 7th round pick for a future 4th round pick. I like it. Quality over quantity. We'll like having that pick next year. Besides, if we had kept those late round picks, we very well might have used them on players such as Kevin Austin, Andrew Mevis and Nick Ford who we ended up getting in UDFA anyway.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is that this draft was considerably deeper than most. Because of covid giving players an optional extra season there were 1600 entrants into this draft, the normal draft usually has about 1200.
A 15 spot move up in a draft that has 400 fewer players probably puts us in about the same spot depth wise, and we're waiting a year later and gave up a 7th to boot.
It's a 15 spot move up if the Bucs win the Super Bowl. That would require everything going right for them. The odds of that are pretty slim.
(05-01-2022, 04:38 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 04:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]One thing that wasn't mentioned is that this draft was considerably deeper than most. Because of covid giving players an optional extra season there were 1600 entrants into this draft, the normal draft usually has about 1200.
A 15 spot move up in a draft that has 400 fewer players probably puts us in about the same spot depth wise, and we're waiting a year later and gave up a 7th to boot.
It's a 15 spot move up if the Bucs win the Super Bowl. That would require everything going right for them. The odds of that are pretty slim.
Lol ok, sorry I forgot the tilde. The other numbers require a tilde to get past all y'all nitpickers as well, btw.
(05-01-2022, 04:26 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 03:51 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]The net result is the Jaguars traded two mid 6th round picks and a mid 7th round pick for a future 4th round pick. I like it. Quality over quantity. We'll like having that pick next year. Besides, if we had kept those late round picks, we very well might have used them on players such as Kevin Austin, Andrew Mevis and Nick Ford who we ended up getting in UDFA anyway.
One thing that wasn't mentioned is that this draft was considerably deeper than most. Because of covid giving players an optional extra season there were 1600 entrants into this draft, the normal draft usually has about 1200.
A 15 spot move up in a draft that has 400 fewer players probably puts us in about the same spot depth wise, and we're waiting a year later and gave up a 7th to boot.
You're also not factoring in compensatory picks. We don't know what it will be next year, but this year, there were 6 at the end of the fourth round. Assuming the same number next year, 15 spots becomes 21 spots. Also, you are assuming that Tampa Bay is in the Super Bowl next year. If they fall short, the number of spots increases even further.
(05-01-2022, 04:25 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 04:22 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Tacks got worse. Texans are bad. clots are going to be pretty good but there’s no reason the Jags can’t be 2nd in the division.
2nd in the division lolol
Don't stop at the ceiling, reach for the stars!!
Like the optimism though lol
Dude 2nd in the division is the stars! Hahaha
(05-01-2022, 06:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So we were going to draft in the 5th round, at #157, and the Bucs called and offered us their 2023 4th round pick for our 2022 5th round pick # 157. But we wanted to use that pick for Snoop Conner.
So we called Philadelphia and offered them two 6th round picks, #188 and #198, for 5th round pick #154. The Eagles said okay to that, so we said okay to the Bucs. And then we drafted Snoop Conner at #154.
Which basically means we did a 3-way deal which netted us a 4th round pick next year in exchange for two 6th round picks this year, and still managed to draft the guy we wanted in the 5th round.
You may hate Baalke, but he's not totally incompetent. He had to swing a 3-way deal in a very short period of time. It's not the most earth-shattering deal in the world, no great profit made, no one got skinned, but it does show that he is on top of things and that this whole idea that other teams won't deal with him is a complete myth.
I dig the mobility, but I question the player we targeted. There were still a lot of versatile and talented RB on the board.
That said, I hope that they prove me wrong and this kid gives us lots to cheer about.
(05-01-2022, 10:25 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]So we're basically combining the trades and giving Baalke praise for giving up 3 6ths and a 7th to get a guy who was literally 100 picks lower on the consensus board and to move up like 15 slots in the draft a year later?
People were making fun of us for being the first team to ever make a move back for a future years pick and lose value on the draft pick value sheet (I can't imagine someone has tracked all of that, but I guess they do). We should have gotten a significantly better pick for moving back a year and throwing in a 7th rounder.
OH NOES mah value chort
I'd rather an extra 4th next year than a late August cut or three this year. Sometimes you have to decide either to take the deal on the table (which may be a loss of glorious alleged value), reach for a guy you want at the top of your board that is likely available later, or take a guy who fits at the pick but doesn't match your plans.
While I agree that there were some very good players that we passed on in practically every selection of this darft, wetting the bed over them isn't going to change who they picked or how those players pan out or flop.