(05-10-2022, 07:16 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The South should have won that war, actually. They won the initial battle and could have marched on Washington, but they were insistent on seceding, not conquering the north. That said, the North was unequivocal in its pursuit of keeping the Union intact. It was Lincoln's primary objective. Lincoln did care about the slaves, but not as much as he cared about preserving the union. This is why the North went to war, and it's what they "solved" by winning it. The country became one country instead of many after the Civil War.
(05-10-2022, 09:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-10-2022, 07:16 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The South should have won that war, actually. They won the initial battle and could have marched on Washington, but they were insistent on seceding, not conquering the north. That said, the North was unequivocal in its pursuit of keeping the Union intact. It was Lincoln's primary objective. Lincoln did care about the slaves, but not as much as he cared about preserving the union. This is why the North went to war, and it's what they "solved" by winning it. The country became one country instead of many after the Civil War.
I don't see how the South could have won.
They did try to conquer DC. The whole point of the thrusts that culminated at Antietam and Gettysburg was to eventually turn east and lay siege to DC. They were supposed to win those battles, hold the ground, the victory would inspire European support, have Europeans disrupt and distract the resupply of DC by sea, they are cut off from retreat, etc.
The Southern generals knew a simple thrust into DC might have conquered the city but would have had no other lasting effect if the armies defending DC were allowed to retreat north and west from there. They had to be encircled. The South knew the northern armies were going to eventually going to attack Chattanooga and Atlanta as they did, if they survived any battle for DC and weren't distracted by attacks from Europe.
Yes, once the war started, Lincoln said preserving the Union was the only goal. That was 1861. In 1860 Lincoln's campaign, and the Republican party platform, were about confining slaves to the South, as I said.
Yes the south could and should have won the war. The north was losing and on the verge of being done for. The south had reasons to fight and really had nothing to do with slavery. Lee could have ended it but he didn't want to take it that far.
Slavery got added on and helped to give the north a reason to fight. Hardly anyone in the south owned slaves and only the elites had enough money.
Look at the elites "freeing" people and then helping by making it worse after they freed the people. At least when they owned you they had to keep their slave investments alive. Afterwards they were free to pay you next to nothing and if you died, they just replace you for free.
Elites always claim to help you while handcuffing you to whatever life they want.
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(05-10-2022, 11:45 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (05-10-2022, 07:16 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The South should have won that war, actually. They won the initial battle and could have marched on Washington, but they were insistent on seceding, not conquering the north. That said, the North was unequivocal in its pursuit of keeping the Union intact. It was Lincoln's primary objective. Lincoln did care about the slaves, but not as much as he cared about preserving the union. This is why the North went to war, and it's what they "solved" by winning it. The country became one country instead of many after the Civil War.
(05-10-2022, 09:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see how the South could have won.
They did try to conquer DC. The whole point of the thrusts that culminated at Antietam and Gettysburg was to eventually turn east and lay siege to DC. They were supposed to win those battles, hold the ground, the victory would inspire European support, have Europeans disrupt and distract the resupply of DC by sea, they are cut off from retreat, etc.
The Southern generals knew a simple thrust into DC might have conquered the city but would have had no other lasting effect if the armies defending DC were allowed to retreat north and west from there. They had to be encircled. The South knew the northern armies were going to eventually going to attack Chattanooga and Atlanta as they did, if they survived any battle for DC and weren't distracted by attacks from Europe.
Yes, once the war started, Lincoln said preserving the Union was the only goal. That was 1861. In 1860 Lincoln's campaign, and the Republican party platform, were about confining slaves to the South, as I said.
Yes the south could and should have won the war. The north was losing and on the verge of being done for. The south had reasons to fight and really had nothing to do with slavery. Lee could have ended it but he didn't want to take it that far.
Slavery got added on and helped to give the north a reason to fight. Hardly anyone in the south owned slaves and only the elites had enough money.
Look at the elites "freeing" people and then helping by making it worse after they freed the people. At least when they owned you they had to keep their slave investments alive. Afterwards they were free to pay you next to nothing and if you died, they just replace you for free.
Elites always claim to help you while handcuffing you to whatever life they want.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
You know there's no reward for being wrong about everything, right? You could try to be right about something, it wouldn't hurt you.
(05-10-2022, 10:59 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm pretty sure morons pass the bar on a regular basis.
Absolutely. As do some morons have an MD by their name.
A degree doesn't signify intelligence. It just says they're educated - vastly different things.
(05-11-2022, 06:53 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2022, 10:24 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely. As do some morons have an MD by their name.
A degree doesn't signify intelligence. It just says they're educated - vastly different things.
Truth
In any case, Lincoln was not a moron.
(05-11-2022, 09:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Nope. He was a tyrant.
A tyrant may or may not be a moron.
(05-11-2022, 09:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2022, 09:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Nope. He was a tyrant.
A tyrant may or may not be a moron.
Can you ever accept that we agreed without trying to contradict me?
(05-11-2022, 09:32 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2022, 09:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]A tyrant may or may not be a moron.
Can you ever accept that we agreed without trying to contradict me?
He's a contrarian just as TrivialPursuit said. Plus, he wants to be the smartest guy in the room.
(05-11-2022, 09:32 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2022, 09:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]A tyrant may or may not be a moron.
Can you ever accept that we agreed without trying to contradict me?
It didn't feel like agreeing. You started with "Nope."
(05-12-2022, 07:34 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-11-2022, 09:32 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Can you ever accept that we agreed without trying to contradict me?
It didn't feel like agreeing. You started with "Nope."
You said he wasn't a moron. I said Nope as in "No he really wasn't." Your straining at the gnats leaves you missing the camel.
(05-12-2022, 10:30 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-12-2022, 07:34 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It didn't feel like agreeing. You started with "Nope."
You said he wasn't a moron. I said Nope as in "No he really wasn't." Your straining at the gnats leaves you missing the camel.
I'm just so accustomed to you disagreeing with me I assumed you were again.
(05-12-2022, 11:00 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-12-2022, 10:30 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You said he wasn't a moron. I said Nope as in "No he really wasn't." Your straining at the gnats leaves you missing the camel.
I'm just so accustomed to you disagreeing with me I assumed you were again.
Well, if you'd quit being wrong I'd quit disagreeing.
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