Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

The numbers are there but the Jaguars name is a hindrance. With Boselli just squeaking in, this might be the wrong time to have this conversation.

Thanks for posting.
They compared him to tiki Barber and Ricky Waters, who went to more Pro Bowls. A lot of insightful things were said, but none of them said anything about how fan voting makes it very hard for small market guys to make it to Pro Bowls.

One of the guys said Fred didn't have a "signature run". No one challenged him on that. I guess he forgot about the 1999 playoffs vs the Dolphins, 90 yd TD? 2003 punishing Mike Doss on the way to the game-winning TD? These sports guys think they already know everything, and sure, they know a lot about a lot of different teams, but why not ask a fan if there's something you don't know? Ignorance is not the same as absence.

(06-21-2022, 07:21 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]One of the guys said Fred didn't have a "signature run".  No one challenged him on that. I guess he forgot about the 1999 playoffs vs the Dolphins, 90 yd TD? 2003 punishing Mike Doss on the way to the game-winning TD? These sports guys think they already know everything, and sure, they know a lot about a lot of different teams, but why not ask a fan if there's something you don't know? Ignorance is not the sake as absence.

I thought this about the Dolphins run when they said that (admittedly I was 8 and in the UK so have only seen it the last 10 years on highlights but definitely a signature run)

Man I wish I could have seen this guy in action.

I always love the effort by Jimmy at the end, he must have known Fred Taylor was away but still goes down the field just to make sure.

(06-21-2022, 07:21 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]One of the guys said Fred didn't have a "signature run".  No one challenged him on that. I guess he forgot about the 1999 playoffs vs the Dolphins, 90 yd TD? 2003 punishing Mike Doss on the way to the game-winning TD? These sports guys think they already know everything, and sure, they know a lot about a lot of different teams, but why not ask a fan if there's something you don't know? Ignorance is not the same as absence.

That lack of awareness goes part and parcel with the small market thing and is why guys like Fred and Tony are always going to be on the bubble for making it in.

Signature run?

He scored a rushing TD in our first ever home playoff game vs New England.

He scored a 52 yard TD on the first play of the first game he started against Baltimore.

He scored a 77 yarder on the opening play on MNF vs Miami.

He currently owns the longest rushing TD in the postseason with a 90 yarder vs Miami.

He had the longest run of the season of 84 yards in 2007 when he was 31 years old. I think that was against the Raiders.

He had the TD against Pittsburgh in the snow.

I’ve always liked the run when he went inside outside back inside, back outside and threw his hand up way early and then scored a TD. I think it was in his rookie season.

How could you not include a signature run against Tampa Bay in his rookie season. After he scored he hit that fireman on the goal post. That was classic Freddy T.

And of course his best game ever against Pittsburgh in the finale game at Three Rivers.

(06-21-2022, 01:20 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Signature run?

He scored a rushing TD in our first ever home playoff game vs New England.

He scored a 52 yard TD on the first play of the first game he started against Baltimore.

He scored a 77 yarder on the opening play on MNF vs Miami.

He currently owns the longest rushing TD in the postseason with a 90 yarder vs Miami.

He had the longest run of the season of 84 yards in 2007 when he was 31 years old. I think that was against the Raiders.

He had the TD against Pittsburgh in the snow.

I’ve always liked the run when he went inside outside back inside, back outside and threw his hand up way early and then scored a TD. I think it was in his rookie season.

How could you not include a signature run against Tampa Bay in his rookie season. After he scored he hit that fireman on the goal post. That was classic Freddy T.

And of course his best game ever against Pittsburgh in the finale game at Three Rivers.

okay, now how many fans outside of northeast Florida are going to recognize or remember any of those?

compare those with:
Bo running clean out of the stadium on MNF 
Barry juking Harlon Barnett so bad he just spun around in circles
Beastquake

Freddy was fantastic, but I think we're being a bit liberal with the "signature" label.

No we're not being a bit liberal. Just because Fred wasn't seen by the masses doesn't mean he's not as relevant as Bo or Barry. Players shouldn't be black listed just for being on a small market team.

(06-21-2022, 04:15 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]No we're not being a bit liberal. Just because Fred wasn't seen by the masses doesn't mean he's not as relevant as Bo or Barry. Players shouldn't be black listed just for being on a small market team.

Shouldn't be, I agree.

(06-21-2022, 03:18 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2022, 01:20 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Signature run?

He scored a rushing TD in our first ever home playoff game vs New England.

He scored a 52 yard TD on the first play of the first game he started against Baltimore.

He scored a 77 yarder on the opening play on MNF vs Miami.

He currently owns the longest rushing TD in the postseason with a 90 yarder vs Miami.

He had the longest run of the season of 84 yards in 2007 when he was 31 years old. I think that was against the Raiders.

He had the TD against Pittsburgh in the snow.

I’ve always liked the run when he went inside outside back inside, back outside and threw his hand up way early and then scored a TD. I think it was in his rookie season.

How could you not include a signature run against Tampa Bay in his rookie season. After he scored he hit that fireman on the goal post. That was classic Freddy T.

And of course his best game ever against Pittsburgh in the finale game at Three Rivers.

okay, now how many fans outside of northeast Florida are going to recognize or remember any of those?

compare those with:
Bo running clean out of the stadium on MNF 
Barry juking Harlon Barnett so bad he just spun around in circles
Beastquake

Freddy was fantastic, but I think we're being a bit liberal with the "signature" label.

You're missing the point.  I don't remember any of those plays you mention. But I did look up beast quake.  It was very good, but I'd never seen it before now.  Does that mean they're not signature plays? No.  It just means I don't follow those teams, and I don't make it my job to report on sports.  Why don't you take a look at some of the runs JagFanatic mentioned, and see if maybe they are comparable to BeastQuake?

(06-21-2022, 01:20 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Signature run?

He scored a rushing TD in our first ever home playoff game vs New England.

He scored a 52 yard TD on the first play of the first game he started against Baltimore.

He scored a 77 yarder on the opening play on MNF vs Miami.

He currently owns the longest rushing TD in the postseason with a 90 yarder vs Miami.

He had the longest run of the season of 84 yards in 2007 when he was 31 years old. I think that was against the Raiders.

He had the TD against Pittsburgh in the snow.

I’ve always liked the run when he went inside outside back inside, back outside and threw his hand up way early and then scored a TD. I think it was in his rookie season.

How could you not include a signature run against Tampa Bay in his rookie season. After he scored he hit that fireman on the goal post. That was classic Freddy T.

And of course his best game ever against Pittsburgh in the finale game at Three Rivers.

I was at that game in 2007 vs. The Raiders.  Don't remember much now other than it being a total romp with the Jags' starters getting pulled early.  Looked up the box score.  Fred opened the scoring with a 62 yard romp, but I can't find a video of it.

Fred is next into the hall of fame.

If they want a signature run, all they have to do is watch his highlight reel. It's full of them.

Fred has the worst problem to have if you want to get in the Hall. He was surrounded by other great players at his position his entire career and was never the very best running back in any of the seasons he played. Add to that his small market anonymity and it's just very unlikely he makes it before he's a seniors candidate.

Boselli finally got in because he was just so damn dominant that he was finally able to overcome the short career, small market, unpopular team, no SB ring working against him.

Taylor was certainly talented enough for the hall of fame, obviously, but he's not an inner circle elite talent at the position like Boselli was. It's going to be a lot harder for him to overcome all of the negative obstacles and get in. Same with Jimmy. If either of them was a Steeler or Packer or Cowboy for the majority of their careers they'd be in.

(06-21-2022, 08:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2022, 03:18 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]okay, now how many fans outside of northeast Florida are going to recognize or remember any of those?

compare those with:
Bo running clean out of the stadium on MNF 
Barry juking Harlon Barnett so bad he just spun around in circles
Beastquake

Freddy was fantastic, but I think we're being a bit liberal with the "signature" label.

You're missing the point.  I don't remember any of those plays you mention. But I did look up beast quake.  It was very good, but I'd never seen it before now.  Does that mean they're not signature plays? No.  It just means I don't follow those teams, and I don't make it my job to report on sports.  Why don't you take a look at some of the runs JagFanatic mentioned, and see if maybe they are comparable to BeastQuake?

So because you don't remember them, they are not easily recognizable, iconic runs that most everyone who's been a fan of the game since the 80s would know?

I get the point extremely well. The concept of "signature run" came up and JF24 rattled off 9 runs in Fred's career. They are VERY significant to Jaguar fans. The question, though, especially when looking at something like HOF consideration, is whether anyone outside the area code would be able to hear Fred's name and instantly think, "Man, that 90 yarder against Miami, that's the stuff of greatness!"

It's possible. Just not likely. It's ok to be biased for the home guy. Frankly, I think the Doss run is his signature run. It was the attitude of that run, a response to yet another voice saying Fred wasn't good enough, and then all he did was run clear over that voice and waltz into the end zone.

Runs, he has the one vs Miami in the playoffs. Maybe the one vs the Colts and Doss, that's it.

He also has a low TD number.

(06-22-2022, 09:27 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2022, 08:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You're missing the point.  I don't remember any of those plays you mention. But I did look up beast quake.  It was very good, but I'd never seen it before now.  Does that mean they're not signature plays? No.  It just means I don't follow those teams, and I don't make it my job to report on sports.  Why don't you take a look at some of the runs JagFanatic mentioned, and see if maybe they are comparable to BeastQuake?

So because you don't remember them, they are not easily recognizable, iconic runs that most everyone who's been a fan of the game since the 80s would know?

I get the point extremely well. The concept of "signature run" came up and JF24 rattled off 9 runs in Fred's career. They are VERY significant to Jaguar fans. The question, though, especially when looking at something like HOF consideration, is whether anyone outside the area code would be able to hear Fred's name and instantly think, "Man, that 90 yarder against Miami, that's the stuff of greatness!"

It's possible. Just not likely. It's ok to be biased for the home guy. Frankly, I think the Doss run is his signature run. It was the attitude of that run, a response to yet another voice saying Fred wasn't good enough, and then all he did was run clear over that voice and waltz into the end zone.

Bias works both ways.  People are less likely to rate a play as "memorable" unless it happened for a team they love, or it happened in the super bowl.  I'm biased for Fred because he played for the Jags, but others are biased against him fornthe same reason.  Sports writers should try to look with a more objective standard than one single widely known play.  Especially when it's the sports writers and ESPN talking heads who have the power to make and reinforce these menories.  My point is simply that "does he have a signature run" is a BS standard that shouldn't be considered.

(06-22-2022, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2022, 09:27 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]So because you don't remember them, they are not easily recognizable, iconic runs that most everyone who's been a fan of the game since the 80s would know?

I get the point extremely well. The concept of "signature run" came up and JF24 rattled off 9 runs in Fred's career. They are VERY significant to Jaguar fans. The question, though, especially when looking at something like HOF consideration, is whether anyone outside the area code would be able to hear Fred's name and instantly think, "Man, that 90 yarder against Miami, that's the stuff of greatness!"

It's possible. Just not likely. It's ok to be biased for the home guy. Frankly, I think the Doss run is his signature run. It was the attitude of that run, a response to yet another voice saying Fred wasn't good enough, and then all he did was run clear over that voice and waltz into the end zone.

Bias works both ways.  People are less likely to rate a play as "memorable" unless it happened for a team they love, or it happened in the super bowl.  I'm biased for Fred because he played for the Jags, but others are biased against him fornthe same reason.  Sports writers should try to look with a more objective standard than one single widely known play.  Especially when it's the sports writers and ESPN talking heads who have the power to make and reinforce these menories.  My point is simply that "does he have a signature run" is a BS standard that shouldn't be considered.

(none of the plays I mentioned were for a team I love nor were they in a superb owl.)

I don't think any HOF voter or sportswriter is using "signature run" as the standard to get someone in (or not), as you claim in the bolded. It's Boselli v. Bruce Smith all over again - those highlights are an example of his dominance and a proof that he deserves to be there. Tony didn't get in (or fail to get in for years) based solely on that one game. That might have been his crowning glory of a performance, but if that was the only time he shined, he wasn't getting in. If the iconic play is all it took to get in, David Tyree would be a hall of famer.

When a voter has a list of 25 finalists in front of them, a guy with a legendary play on his resume is going to get added consideration. Same goes for postseason accolades, memorable interviews, etc. Freddy has some great stats to support his claim to a gold jacket. But outside of his stats, does he have anything that's going to draw the voters eye away from the other 24 finalists?

Lynch is only 1000 yards behind Freddy (29th all time to Fred's 17th), has 85 TD to Fred's 66, has an iconic run, and also the notorious ""I'm just here so I won't get fined" pre-super bowl media day. Fred's fighting an uphill battle, even in this specific comparison. Whether you agree with voters considering singular impact plays in the broader scope of a players' merit, it's reality. Fred's runs were significant TO OUR FANBASE. Iconic runs are significant to the story of the game.