(06-26-2022, 01:21 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear, if my wife was raped you’re expecting us to have and raise that child.?
Plan B is available at most drugstores without a prescription. If a woman takes it within 48 hours of unprotected sex, her chance of getting pregnant goes down more than 90%. Mr. Sperm will not meet Ms. Egg.
Your wife may have been on birth control already.
And no, adoption has always been a thing, so no one is expecting anyone to raise a child that they didn't want to raise.
The left, particularly the far left MSM is portraying this as something that it isn't.
Refer to the 10th Amendment. Power is simply returned to the States.
What laws states decide to pass are all about the state government. The people that live in that state elect their state government.
The far left liberal meltdown is amusing to watch.
(06-25-2022, 08:47 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2022, 05:50 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]So... any updates on the riots? Were things mostly peaceful?
(06-25-2022, 07:13 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Tear gas was used to keep protestors away from the Arizona Senate, which was in session at the time. Unsure of the implications, obviously not good regardless.
Arizona Senate was invaded, worse than J6. Antifa and teachers stormed it, were inside, senators were moved, and I think they took over the floor. Some calling it a hostage situation but that was overkill.
Tear gas was used and eventually the building was cleared. Then the senate moved to another floor to continue voting. They were voting on some voucher bill to expand to most kids and the groomers were pissed off.
In LA antifa tried a homemade flamethrower and cops got him after he ran, it's too bad the cops didn't shoot and his fuel source didn't explode. The cops also had some explosive fireworks or ordinances throw at them, they arrested some of the antifa throwing them.
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The homemade flamethrower guy was charged arrested for attempted murder at least until the LA DA drops the charges or lowers it to a misdemeanor.
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Foster home’s already over running. They don’t have room for these kids.
I’ve been conservative my whole life but I’m fixing to vote for Abrams this fall.
(06-26-2022, 01:21 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear, if my wife was raped you’re expecting us to have and raise that child.?
I think the answer from the right is, more or less yes. Although you could opt to give the child up for adoption after the birth.
(06-26-2022, 03:56 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Foster home’s already over running. They don’t have room for these kids.
I’ve been conservative my whole life but I’m fixing to vote for Abrams this fall.
If you’re willing to make such a wide swing in your vote over one issue then maybe you aren’t as conservative as you think, or you really aren’t and just saying so in an attempt to give your argument weight.
(06-26-2022, 04:18 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 01:21 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear, if my wife was raped you’re expecting us to have and raise that child.?
I think the answer from the right is, more or less yes. Although you could opt to give the child up for adoption after the birth.
To some yes, but most would say abortion is appropriate in that situation.
(06-26-2022, 03:46 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The left, particularly the far left MSM is portraying this as something that it isn't.
Refer to the 10th Amendment. Power is simply returned to the States.
What laws states decide to pass are all about the state government. The people that live in that state elect their state government.
The far left liberal meltdown is amusing to watch.
Thats not always true, and it's one of the big problems going forward. Take a look at the 2018 Wisconsin state assembly elections. Most voters voted for Democrats. Most seats went to Republicans.
(06-26-2022, 04:23 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 03:56 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Foster home’s already over running. They don’t have room for these kids.
I’ve been conservative my whole life but I’m fixing to vote for Abrams this fall.
If you’re willing to make such a wide swing in your vote over one issue then maybe you aren’t as conservative as you think, or you really aren’t and just saying so in an attempt to give your argument weight.
(06-26-2022, 04:18 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I think the answer from the right is, more or less yes. Although you could opt to give the child up for adoption after the birth.
To some yes, but most would say abortion is appropriate in that situation.
I think there ought to be exceptions carved out for rape/incest. Only because of the harm it causes everyone involved. The caveat being it is done as soon as conception is discovered. Never later than 15 weeks. Still ugly, but perhaps necessary.
(06-26-2022, 04:23 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 03:56 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Foster home’s already over running. They don’t have room for these kids.
I’ve been conservative my whole life but I’m fixing to vote for Abrams this fall.
If you’re willing to make such a wide swing in your vote over one issue then maybe you aren’t as conservative as you think, or you really aren’t and just saying so in an attempt to give your argument weight.
(06-26-2022, 04:18 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I think the answer from the right is, more or less yes. Although you could opt to give the child up for adoption after the birth.
To some yes, but most would say abortion is appropriate in that situation.
Right, most of the laws that get proposed have an exception for rape.
Violent Pro-Abortion Protester Finds Himself with an Attempted Murder Charge After Turning Homemade Device on a Police Officer
A pro-abortion demonstrator has been charged with attempted murder after a Los Angeles protest turned violent against Friday’s Supreme Court ruling overturning the Roe v. Wade ruling.
Michael Ortiz, 30, attacked an officer Friday night with what police called a “makeshift flamethrower,” according to KTLA-TV.
https://www.westernjournal.com/violent-p...v7MB4oi5dE
(06-26-2022, 04:38 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 04:23 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]If you’re willing to make such a wide swing in your vote over one issue then maybe you aren’t as conservative as you think, or you really aren’t and just saying so in an attempt to give your argument weight.
To some yes, but most would say abortion is appropriate in that situation.
Right, most of the laws that get proposed have an exception for rape.
Not in Missouri. They have no exception for rape or incest.
(06-26-2022, 05:18 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 04:38 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Right, most of the laws that get proposed have an exception for rape.
Not in Missouri. They have no exception for rape or incest.
North Dakota and Arkansas, as well, I believe. I don’t know how long those laws have been on the books but voters now have the opportunity to amend them if they choose.
No one ever really explains how an exception for rape would work. Would the woman have to file a police report first? Would women simply lie, and tell their doctors they were raped? Would the doctor have to have a reasonable belief that she wasn't lying? Women get very upset about these discussions because the implication is that not all rape accusations are true. Even if I agree that it is usually very rare for women to lie about being raped, wouldn't you have to agree that this type of exception to abortion law incentivizes false reports? It seems very messy. And I think that will play out as states work these things out as laboratories of democracy.
(06-26-2022, 05:53 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No one ever really explains how an exception for rape would work. Would the woman have to file a police report first? Would women simply lie, and tell their doctors they were raped? Would the doctor have to have a reasonable belief that she wasn't lying? Women get very upset about these discussions because the implication is that not all rape accusations are true. Even if I agree that it is usually very rare for women to lie about being raped, wouldn't you have to agree that this type of exception to abortion law incentivizes false reports? It seems very messy. And I think that will play out as states work these things out as laboratories of democracy.
If u play it out to its natural conclusion, surgical abortion has nothing to do with rape. In reality ur talking about plan b @ the time of the incident. I've gamed out the scenario several times. In reality this has been the most effective talking point for the pro abortion crowd, but it's actually a red herring.
Something else to take into account is there are now more, more effective, and more accessible methods of birth control.
With that being said, my personal opinion on this matter, (as if anyone cares) is that even though I’m not pro-abortion, I think they should have left it alone.
(06-26-2022, 06:42 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 05:53 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No one ever really explains how an exception for rape would work. Would the woman have to file a police report first? Would women simply lie, and tell their doctors they were raped? Would the doctor have to have a reasonable belief that she wasn't lying? Women get very upset about these discussions because the implication is that not all rape accusations are true. Even if I agree that it is usually very rare for women to lie about being raped, wouldn't you have to agree that this type of exception to abortion law incentivizes false reports? It seems very messy. And I think that will play out as states work these things out as laboratories of democracy.
If u play it out to its natural conclusion, surgical abortion has nothing to do with rape. In reality ur talking about plan b @ the time of the incident. I've gamed out the scenario several times. In reality this has been the most effective talking point for the pro abortion crowd, but it's actually a red herring.
I just don't know how common it is for women to be raped while also being unable to take trips to the store. I know that there is such a thing as being raped and kidnapped at the same time, and I suppose surgical or medication abortion is a more ethical choice in that case, but those cases are rare enough that they become their own episodes on 48 hours.
And there is a lot of noise in the signal because certain unscientific and fanatical people insist that plan b is abortion when it's not.
Another thing no one wants to talk about is the impact of changes to technology and medical science. You don't find much commentary about abortion at the time of adoption of the 14th amendment because it was so hazardous to try to remove a baby before its time that any attempt was clearly criminal. It wasn't until 1957 that Chinese scientists invented a reliable and safe device and method. Roe was a reaction to that innovation. And so is Dobbs. But in the meantime medication abortion now exists and women in any of these states can obtain the pills relatively easily by mail. How can a ban on these pills be enforced at the state level?
Imagine an emergency room in Louisiana or Missouri. Two women come in with identical symptoms. They are both bleeding and both have deceased fetuses in their wombs. One of them has intentionally acquired and injested abortion pills, but the other one did not. She is just unlucky. State law might say one should be punished and the other left alone. But which is which? Should both be investigated? Neither?
Say we solve the above scenario by saying women should never be punished for abortion, only doctors should be punished. This is what most "trigger law" states have done. Imagine the same two women now in the same hospital. The doctor treating them could conceivably be accused of assisting in an intentional abortion if he has reason to believe that either woman has taken the abortion pill. Does that affect the quality of care that the women get?
(06-26-2022, 06:49 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Something else to take into account is there are now more, more effective, and more accessible methods of birth control.
With that being said, my personal opinion on this matter, (as if anyone cares) is that even though I’m not pro-abortion, I think they should have left it alone.
That’s where I am at as well. This is unneeded at best. Causing public issues and division(as if we needed more) on topics that haven’t been more than political talking points in decades.
There were bigger fish to fry.
(06-26-2022, 05:53 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]No one ever really explains how an exception for rape would work. Would the woman have to file a police report first? Would women simply lie, and tell their doctors they were raped? Would the doctor have to have a reasonable belief that she wasn't lying? Women get very upset about these discussions because the implication is that not all rape accusations are true. Even if I agree that it is usually very rare for women to lie about being raped, wouldn't you have to agree that this type of exception to abortion law incentivizes false reports? It seems very messy. And I think that will play out as states work these things out as laboratories of democracy.
Abortions for rape and incest or to save the mother's life are extremely rare. I can understand the woman not wanting the child but at the same time she is then choosing to kill the child that did nothing wrong.
It's a terrible situation but to then add to it by killing a child growing inside of you will most likely bring more trauma. There are plenty of options that don't include killing the child.
I haven't seen any of the laws with the exception but like most laws, it would require you to actually tell the truth or you could get around the law.
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(06-26-2022, 07:08 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (06-26-2022, 06:49 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Something else to take into account is there are now more, more effective, and more accessible methods of birth control.
With that being said, my personal opinion on this matter, (as if anyone cares) is that even though I’m not pro-abortion, I think they should have left it alone.
That’s where I am at as well. This is unneeded at best. Causing public issues and division(as if we needed more) on topics that haven’t been more than political talking points in decades.
There were bigger fish to fry.
This was actually an extremely big case. The left is screaming that abortion is now illegal and that is the farthest thing from the truth. This removed the federal government's power that should have never been given to begin with. States have all rights that are not specifically granted to the federal government in the constitution. States now are free to govern themselves and choose the laws they want.
This limits the federal government and hopefully it shuts a lot of the other assumed power down.
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(06-26-2022, 06:49 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Something else to take into account is there are now more, more effective, and more accessible methods of birth control.
With that being said, my personal opinion on this matter, (as if anyone cares) is that even though I’m not pro-abortion, I think they should have left it alone.
I saw a poll somewhere that most people agree with you. The same poll also said an even greater majority thought abortion should be illegal. This is not a cut and dry issue by any means.