That's something I just had to accept. If the choice is between centralized individualism and centralized collectivism, I take the former all day. I would prefer it to be decentralized individualism, but we can't have that conversation until we can make individualism a first principle. We need to, collectively, reject collectivism.
There are a lot of moving parts here.
There are normal policy discussions where Trump favored a conservative or small government position.
There are normal policy discussions where Trump favored liberal or big government positions.
There are instances where Trump should have been more careful or nicer about what he said, and he might have had fewer problems, but that has nothing to do with policy.
Finally there are instances where Trump tried to pervert the entire system of government into his personal dictatorship, and that has nothing to do with policy either.
The first three should all be looked at as we decide if Trump should run again or who should replace Trump.
But it's only the last one that caused Liz Cheney's defeat. Liz had no policy or style disagreements with Trump. Just the constitutional disagreement.
(08-17-2022, 04:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]There are a lot of moving parts here.
There are normal policy discussions where Trump favored a conservative or small government position.
There are normal policy discussions where Trump favored liberal or big government positions.
There are instances where Trump should have been more careful or nicer about what he said, and he might have had fewer problems, but that has nothing to do with policy.
Finally there are instances where Trump tried to pervert the entire system of government into his personal dictatorship, and that has nothing to do with policy either.
The first three should all be looked at as we decide if Trump should run again or who should replace Trump.
But it's only the last one that caused Liz Cheney's defeat. Liz had no policy or style disagreements with Trump. Just the constitutional disagreement.
LOL.. that line is the funniest out of all them, I mean this whole thing is hilariously stupid, but that line really takes the cake. Please oh unwise one, elaborate. Then please allow me to retort with examples of Obama, and Biden doing MUCH, MUCH more dictatorial actions.
Go ahead, I'll wait... ( he actually said been more "careful and nicer") WOW....This guy, REALLY doesn't get it...
(08-17-2022, 11:56 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]DeSantis is Trump policy-wise (in fact, maybe more conservative) without the abrasive personality. No worries, the Trumpers will board the DeSantis bandwagon when the time comes. And moderates will vote DeSantis, especially after 2 more years of this admins failures. What other alternative will there be? Biden? Kackala? Trump doesn't need to get back in the race for the GOP to win in 2024.
Right now I would vote for DeSantis. Not only does he not have Trump's abrasive personality he's also about 10 times smarter and he's not bat [BLEEP] crazy.
(08-17-2022, 04:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 11:56 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]DeSantis is Trump policy-wise (in fact, maybe more conservative) without the abrasive personality. No worries, the Trumpers will board the DeSantis bandwagon when the time comes. And moderates will vote DeSantis, especially after 2 more years of this admins failures. What other alternative will there be? Biden? Kackala? Trump doesn't need to get back in the race for the GOP to win in 2024.
Right now I would vote for DeSantis. Not only does he not have Trump's abrasive personality he's also about 10 times smarter and he's not bat [BLEEP] crazy.
Sometimes, abrasive is exactly what our side needs. Obviously playing nice got us NOWHERE. Maybe if were more abrasive sooner, we wouldn't be where we are now..
No one ever complains about the left and their nastiness which far exceeds ANYTHING Trump ever did, ANYTHING... Why is that?
(08-17-2022, 04:37 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Right now I would vote for DeSantis. Not only does he not have Trump's abrasive personality he's also about 10 times smarter and he's not bat [BLEEP] crazy.
Sometimes, abrasive is exactly what our side needs. Obviously playing nice got us NOWHERE. Maybe if were more abrasive sooner, we wouldn't be where we are now..
No one ever complains about the left and their nastiness which far exceeds ANYTHING Trump ever did, ANYTHING... Why is that?
I'm not sure where you are located, but DeSantis is handling our business just fine here in FLA without 'abrasivness'. There's more than one way to silence a leftist.
(08-17-2022, 04:42 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:37 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes, abrasive is exactly what our side needs. Obviously playing nice got us NOWHERE. Maybe if were more abrasive sooner, we wouldn't be where we are now..
No one ever complains about the left and their nastiness which far exceeds ANYTHING Trump ever did, ANYTHING... Why is that?
I'm not sure where you are located, but DeSantis is handling our business just fine here in FLA without 'abrasivness'. There's more than one way to silence a leftist..
If you think that once they get Trump out of the picture (not likely) that they will not go after DeSantis with the same HATE and NASTINESS they have with EVERY REPUBLICAN EVER, then you are being Naïve They are masters of making MONSTERS out of every single Republican.
So, screw em, fight fire with fire. I like DeSantis, but I love Trump.
Oh, and I live in DUuuuVvvAAaaaLllll baby...
(08-17-2022, 04:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 11:56 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]DeSantis is Trump policy-wise (in fact, maybe more conservative) without the abrasive personality. No worries, the Trumpers will board the DeSantis bandwagon when the time comes. And moderates will vote DeSantis, especially after 2 more years of this admins failures. What other alternative will there be? Biden? Kackala? Trump doesn't need to get back in the race for the GOP to win in 2024.
Right now I would vote for DeSantis. Not only does he not have Trump's abrasive personality he's also about 10 times smarter and he's not bat [BLEEP] crazy.
And also, last but not least, DeSantis is not a congenital liar.
(08-17-2022, 04:47 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:42 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure where you are located, but DeSantis is handling our business just fine here in FLA without 'abrasivness'. There's more than one way to silence a leftist..
If you think that once they get Trump out of the picture (not likely) that they will not go after DeSantis with the same HATE and NASTINESS they have with EVERY REPUBLICAN EVER, then you are being Naïve They are masters of making MONSTERS out of every single Republican.
So, screw em, fight fire with fire. I like DeSantis, but I love Trump.
Well, it hasn't worked for them so far here in FLA. Nothing the left has thrown at him has stuck. CoVid, Disney, don't say gayfer bill, he's ahead of the curve. Don't give the lefties more due than they deserve.
(08-17-2022, 04:52 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:47 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]If you think that once they get Trump out of the picture (not likely) that they will not go after DeSantis with the same HATE and NASTINESS they have with EVERY REPUBLICAN EVER, then you are being Naïve They are masters of making MONSTERS out of every single Republican.
So, screw em, fight fire with fire. I like DeSantis, but I love Trump.
Well, it hasn't worked for them so far here in FLA. Nothing the left has thrown at him has stuck. CoVid, Disney, don't say gayfer bill, he's ahead of the curve. Don't give the lefties more due than they deserve.
Bro, they have been waaaaay to busy trying to bring down President Trump to even really start on DeSantis... How old are you? Have you been to the U.S?
And DeSantis is abrasive, just he has a different southern style about it, which is cool and all. But Trump is a New Yorker a Yankee, and if you've never lived up north then you can't appreciate how NORMAL Trump really is. I've lived up there, believe me, apples and oranges my friend.
(08-17-2022, 04:59 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:52 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Well, it hasn't worked for them so far here in FLA. Nothing the left has thrown at him has stuck. CoVid, Disney, don't say gayfer bill, he's ahead of the curve. Don't give the lefties more due than they deserve.
Bro, they have been waaaaay to busy trying to bring down President Trump to even really start on DeSantis... How old are you? Have you been to the U.S?
And DeSantis is abrasive, just he has a different southern style about it, which is cool and all. But Trump is a New Yorker a Yankee, and if you've never lived up north then you can't appreciate how NORMAL Trump really is. I've lived up there, believe me, apples and oranges my friend.
I appreciate your passion for Trump. I held my breath and voted for him because the alternative was unthinkable. I agree that the media had it in for him from the beginning. But he didn't do himself any favors by attacking everyone and everything during the Rep primaries. Many times, unilaterally, with all the subtlety of a 4th grader.
I'm 65. I've lived in FLA for 60 of those years. I haven't lived in NY, but have worked in NYC extensively as a consultant over the last 20 years. Are people more intense there than in the South? Yes. Does 'being from the North' excuse rudeness? No. And most everyone I worked with there wasn't rude. I don't neccesarily believe Trump is rude in a one on one encounter either; there are many people who have testified to that. He handled the media for most of the run up to the election, and even during his presidency. But, IMHO, he unraveled at the end.
(08-17-2022, 05:12 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:59 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Bro, they have been waaaaay to busy trying to bring down President Trump to even really start on DeSantis... How old are you? Have you been to the U.S?
And DeSantis is abrasive, just he has a different southern style about it, which is cool and all. But Trump is a New Yorker a Yankee, and if you've never lived up north then you can't appreciate how NORMAL Trump really is. I've lived up there, believe me, apples and oranges my friend.
I appreciate your passion for Trump. I held my breath and voted for him because the alternative was unthinkable. I agree that the media had it in for him from the beginning. But he didn't do himself any favors by attacking everyone and everything during the Rep primaries. Many times, unilaterally, with all the subtlety of a 4th grader.
I'm 65. I've lived in FLA for 60 of those years. I haven't lived in NY, but have worked in NYC extensively as a consultant over the last 20 years. Are people more intense there than in the South? Yes. Does 'being from the North' excuse rudeness? No. And most everyone I worked with there wasn't rude. I don't neccesarily believe Trump is rude in a one on one encounter either; there are many people who have testified to that. He handled the media for most of the run up to the election, and even during his presidency. But, IMHO, he unraveled at the end.
WRONG!
It’s Trump or no one! HE IS GOD AND ALL KNOWING!
(08-17-2022, 05:12 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2022, 04:59 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Bro, they have been waaaaay to busy trying to bring down President Trump to even really start on DeSantis... How old are you? Have you been to the U.S?
And DeSantis is abrasive, just he has a different southern style about it, which is cool and all. But Trump is a New Yorker a Yankee, and if you've never lived up north then you can't appreciate how NORMAL Trump really is. I've lived up there, believe me, apples and oranges my friend.
I appreciate your passion for Trump. I held my breath and voted for him because the alternative was unthinkable. I agree that the media had it in for him from the beginning. But he didn't do himself any favors by attacking everyone and everything during the Rep primaries. Many times, unilaterally, with all the subtlety of a 4th grader.
I'm 65. I've lived in FLA for 60 of those years. I haven't lived in NY, but have worked in NYC extensively as a consultant over the last 20 years. Are people more intense there than in the South? Yes. Does 'being from the North' excuse rudeness? No. And most everyone I worked with there wasn't rude. I don't neccesarily believe Trump is rude in a one on one encounter either; there are many people who have testified to that. He handled the media for most of the run up to the election, and even during his presidency. But, IMHO, he unraveled at the end.
Put yourself in Trumps shoes, he just spent 5 years being attacked and vilified. They tried to impeach him TWICE; can you blame him for being a little cranky?
All he did was to try and improve the lives of his fellow Americans and that is why I will always be loyal to him…