Typically, I just drop these stories into an existing thread, but this woman so utterly eviscerated Don Lemon in such composed British form that it deserves its own billing. He looks absolutely flummoxed at the end.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1...eparations
(09-20-2022, 08:20 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Typically, I just drop these stories into an existing thread, but this woman so utterly eviscerated Don Lemon in such composed British form that it deserves its own billing. He looks absolutely flummoxed at the end.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1...eparations
Don Lemon is a uniquely ignorant individual, and the person he is interviewing certainly knows more than him about the topic. But she did present an extremely selective set of facts.
In general, African slaves were not brought to the British Isles.
In general, the British freed the English speaking slaves in the Caribbean without compensation for their prior forced labor.
In general, white people in the British Caribbean got great benefits from that slave labor.
Then, in general, after emancipation and over decades, those white people left the most populated islands like Jamaica and Trinidad, and ended up in Canada, or the British Isles, and spent/invested their fortunes there.
While this was going on, the British made efforts to improve the lives of black people in the Caribbean with public works projects, and also with efforts to re-settle them in the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, and Sierra Leone.
Obviously these efforts were mixed at best
Do they make up for the centuries of slavery, or is there more that the white Brits and Canadians should do? I don't know. But it is a reasonable question.
I like how you glossed over the original point.
(09-20-2022, 08:47 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I like how you glossed over the original point.
What's the original point?
(09-20-2022, 08:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:20 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Typically, I just drop these stories into an existing thread, but this woman so utterly eviscerated Don Lemon in such composed British form that it deserves its own billing. He looks absolutely flummoxed at the end.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1...eparations
Don Lemon is a uniquely ignorant individual, and the person he is interviewing certainly knows more than him about the topic. But she did present an extremely selective set of facts.
In general, African slaves were not brought to the British Isles.
In general, the British freed the English speaking slaves in the Caribbean without compensation for their prior forced labor.
In general, white people in the British Caribbean got great benefits from that slave labor.
Then, in general, after emancipation and over decades, those white people left the most populated islands like Jamaica and Trinidad, and ended up in Canada, or the British Isles, and spent/invested their fortunes there.
While this was going on, the British made efforts to improve the lives of black people in the Caribbean with public works projects, and also with efforts to re-settle them in the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, and Sierra Leone.
Obviously these efforts were mixed at best
Do they make up for the centuries of slavery, or is there more that the white Brits and Canadians should do? I don't know. But it is a reasonable question.
It's reasonable in the fact that is explores the history of African slavery. Does it support the argument that people today should receive monetary compensation for an institution that has been out of existence for generations? No.
(09-20-2022, 09:00 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Don Lemon is a uniquely ignorant individual, and the person he is interviewing certainly knows more than him about the topic. But she did present an extremely selective set of facts.
In general, African slaves were not brought to the British Isles.
In general, the British freed the English speaking slaves in the Caribbean without compensation for their prior forced labor.
In general, white people in the British Caribbean got great benefits from that slave labor.
Then, in general, after emancipation and over decades, those white people left the most populated islands like Jamaica and Trinidad, and ended up in Canada, or the British Isles, and spent/invested their fortunes there.
While this was going on, the British made efforts to improve the lives of black people in the Caribbean with public works projects, and also with efforts to re-settle them in the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, and Sierra Leone.
Obviously these efforts were mixed at best
Do they make up for the centuries of slavery, or is there more that the white Brits and Canadians should do? I don't know. But it is a reasonable question.
It's reasonable in the fact that is explores the history of African slavery. Does it support the argument that people today should receive monetary compensation for an institution that has been out of existence for generations? No.
People as individuals alive today do not deserve compensation, correct.
However I don't think the British government has done enough to invest in places like Jamaica in ways that will really unlock the diverse economic potential of those places and lift more people out of poverty.
(09-20-2022, 09:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 09:00 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]It's reasonable in the fact that is explores the history of African slavery. Does it support the argument that people today should receive monetary compensation for an institution that has been out of existence for generations? No.
People as individuals alive today do not deserve compensation, correct.
However I don't think the British government has done enough to invest in places like Jamaica in ways that will really unlock the diverse economic potential of those places and lift more people out of poverty.
I'm sure a lot of entities would like to invest in Jamaica and other Caribbean nations. Like much of Central and South America, it's a losing gamble because corruption is so ingrained into their systems. Progress is almost impossible.
(09-20-2022, 08:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:47 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I like how you glossed over the original point.
What's the original point?
The ultimate point is that you shouldn't punish the group that fought with blood to abolish a system that has been in existence for all of human history. Many different tribes profited from slavery, too, and no one expects they should pay reparations. She doesn't believe those African nations should be paying, but she's pointing out the hypocrisy of those who want to focus on white colonialism.
Every nation participated in this kind of behavior. The west were just the ones who tried to abolish it while they were in power. There is still a form or Western and American colonialism in the world, but I don't know how you correct that kind of thing except with awareness and restraint. Even as we call for American imperialism to end, it's already being supplanted by Chinese imperialism (for lack of a better word). You can't stop one without the other.
All of this is made worse once you begin to understand that the biggest proponents of these kinds of ideologies are actively seeking global domination and are using this hiccup in history as a tool to bludgeon the prevailing system to death. Stop jumping on every emotional plea for justice, man.
Aside from that, I agree with you that Don Lemon is an idiot, and the way he ended that segment made me laugh out loud. What a dolt.
Haha. Don was like. I'm not ready for this. It's time to move on the next topic
(09-20-2022, 08:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:20 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Typically, I just drop these stories into an existing thread, but this woman so utterly eviscerated Don Lemon in such composed British form that it deserves its own billing. He looks absolutely flummoxed at the end.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1...eparations
Don Lemon is a uniquely ignorant individual, and the person he is interviewing certainly knows more than him about the topic. But she did present an extremely selective set of facts.
In general, African slaves were not brought to the British Isles.
In general, the British freed the English speaking slaves in the Caribbean without compensation for their prior forced labor.
In general, white people in the British Caribbean got great benefits from that slave labor.
Then, in general, after emancipation and over decades, those white people left the most populated islands like Jamaica and Trinidad, and ended up in Canada, or the British Isles, and spent/invested their fortunes there.
While this was going on, the British made efforts to improve the lives of black people in the Caribbean with public works projects, and also with efforts to re-settle them in the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, and Sierra Leone.
Obviously these efforts were mixed at best
Do they make up for the centuries of slavery, or is there more that the white Brits and Canadians should do? I don't know. But it is a reasonable question.
No, and no.
Not every past sin can be fixed, and asking the descendants of the perpetrators to compensate the descendants of the victims would do more harm than good. And it would be so complicated there would be endless arguments about who deserves compensation, and who should pay it.
Sometimes, you just have to let go of the past and get on with life.
Not a fan of Don Lemon and that is why I'm happy to see him moving to the morning hours as CNN makes a push to get back to the Center (less biased reporting). They already got rid of the program Reliable Sources.
That said, reparations can be made to more than 1 group people.
(09-21-2022, 06:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Don Lemon is a uniquely ignorant individual, and the person he is interviewing certainly knows more than him about the topic. But she did present an extremely selective set of facts.
In general, African slaves were not brought to the British Isles.
In general, the British freed the English speaking slaves in the Caribbean without compensation for their prior forced labor.
In general, white people in the British Caribbean got great benefits from that slave labor.
Then, in general, after emancipation and over decades, those white people left the most populated islands like Jamaica and Trinidad, and ended up in Canada, or the British Isles, and spent/invested their fortunes there.
While this was going on, the British made efforts to improve the lives of black people in the Caribbean with public works projects, and also with efforts to re-settle them in the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, and Sierra Leone.
Obviously these efforts were mixed at best
Do they make up for the centuries of slavery, or is there more that the white Brits and Canadians should do? I don't know. But it is a reasonable question.
No, and no.
Not every past sin can be fixed, and ***asking the descendants of the perpetrators*** to compensate the descendants of the victims would do more harm than good. And it would be so complicated there would be endless arguments about who deserves compensation, and who should pay it.
Sometimes, you just have to let go of the past and get on with life.
Should read "asking the descendants of one select group of the perpetrators who coincidently are also the one select group who shed blood to end the practice".
(09-20-2022, 08:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:47 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I like how you glossed over the original point.
What's the original point?
If your great-great-grandfather raped and killed Marty's great-great-grandmother should your current day family have to pay Marty's family if they were to sue yours in a civil suit? Of course not, unless your family is still doing murder on Marty's family then that's a different problem.
It's a simple illustration but this is how I see it.
If the victim mentality in a lot of black homes wasn't taught from birth people would just get on with life.
(09-21-2022, 03:45 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2022, 08:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]What's the original point?
If your great-great-grandfather raped and killed Marty's great-great-grandmother should your current day family have to pay Marty's family if they were to sue yours in a civil suit? Of course not, unless your family is still doing murder on Marty's family then that's a different problem.
It's a simple illustration but this is how I see it.
If the victim mentality in a lot of black homes wasn't taught from birth people would just get on with life.
Right, it wouldn't be required for my family to give Marty's family money. But it wouldn't be prohibited either. If my family wanted to give money to show we were sorry, that might be silly of us, but no one would stop us.
(09-21-2022, 03:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2022, 03:45 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]If your great-great-grandfather raped and killed Marty's great-great-grandmother should your current day family have to pay Marty's family if they were to sue yours in a civil suit? Of course not, unless your family is still doing murder on Marty's family then that's a different problem.
It's a simple illustration but this is how I see it.
If the victim mentality in a lot of black homes wasn't taught from birth people would just get on with life.
Right, it wouldn't be required for my family to give Marty's family money. But it wouldn't be prohibited either. If my family wanted to give money to show we were sorry, that might be silly of us, but no one would stop us.
And if you robbed me to get the money to pay Marty's family then I would stop you, and rightfully so.
(09-21-2022, 04:24 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2022, 03:50 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Right, it wouldn't be required for my family to give Marty's family money. But it wouldn't be prohibited either. If my family wanted to give money to show we were sorry, that might be silly of us, but no one would stop us.
And if you robbed me to get the money to pay Marty's family then I would stop you, and rightfully so.
Right, but if we were all under the same government and a majority of us voted to give Marty's family and other similarly situated families money, the government taking your money and my money for that would not be robbery.
(09-21-2022, 04:56 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2022, 04:24 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And if you robbed me to get the money to pay Marty's family then I would stop you, and rightfully so.
Right, but if we were all under the same government and a majority of us voted to give Marty's family and other similarly situated families money, the government taking your money and my money for that would not be robbery.
The point is- who wants to give Marty's family money? Not anyone who has no dog in that fight. And no one present day has a dog in the fight. But if your family wants to give Marty's family money y'all go right ahead.
I can show via genealogy that no one in my family owned slaves. Hell, the Germans and Irish were treated quite badly when they came over here; look up Irish slavery. We had to pretend to be something else so we weren't treated harshly and only got away with it because we happened to be white.
So, yeah, I'm not paying anyone anything because
I owe no one.
(09-21-2022, 06:20 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-21-2022, 04:56 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Right, but if we were all under the same government and a majority of us voted to give Marty's family and other similarly situated families money, the government taking your money and my money for that would not be robbery.
The point is- who wants to give Marty's family money? Not anyone who has no dog in that fight. And no one present day has a dog in the fight. But if your family wants to give Marty's family money y'all go right ahead.
I can show via genealogy that no one in my family owned slaves. Hell, the Germans and Irish were treated quite badly when they came over here; look up Irish slavery. We had to pretend to be something else so we weren't treated harshly and only got away with it because we happened to be white.
So, yeah, I'm not paying anyone anything because I owe no one.
My genealogy shows the exact same thing. It's possible that my maternal grandmother's family was in the US prior to the Civil War, but unlikely that they owned any slaves. The rest came after. This whole question is very different in a US context vs. a British context. In the US the freed slaves all immediately got education and many of them also got land (though many weren't able to hold on to it for long, with the banks, shops, and courts rigged against them after 1876). And their slave owners typically went bankrupt during and after the Civil War.
One can argue that the white people in the US owe reparations to the black people, but it's not for slavery. It would be for things like Jim Crow and redlining, that happened afterwards. And my ancestors were here for that. So were yours.
Marty is a such a freeloader.