(11-14-2022, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 07:45 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Funny thing is, I've been reading some KC fans comments and they are complaining about how the refs are always unfair to them. They think Cisco should be fined for the injury to their receiver as well when there was obviously no foul on replays. Lol.
They may not have been targeting/roughness, but both hits were defenseless receiver. Cisco (and the Jags) got lucky neither were called.
It's not a penalty unless the hit was unnecessary. Both hits were necessary.
(11-14-2022, 11:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]They may not have been targeting/roughness, but both hits were defenseless receiver. Cisco (and the Jags) got lucky neither were called.
It's not a penalty unless the hit was unnecessary. Both hits were necessary.
Agreed. Cisco did his job. As cleanly as possible. The modern offense is way too comfortable now and they think they get away with forcing anything into any coverage. [BLEEP] that. Defenders are allowed to make plays too.
It really needs to be reviewable. I don't care if it slows the game down or not. If you throw a 15 yard penalty and automatic 1st down on a 3rd or 4th and long? You better make damn sure that hit was clean.
Defenseless or not. If that ball is in the air and its closely contested? It's anybody's game. If my guy lowers his shoulder or uses his forearm to avoid the helmet to helmet blow while hitting the collarbone, chest and shoulder area? It's clean. Pick that flag up.
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(11-14-2022, 03:54 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]The illegal man downfield on Cam Robinson annoys me, yes he committed a penalty but did it effect the play? no. I can't stand the way the NFL handles penalties. Something that has no bearing on the outcome should restart the play/null/void it.
every call would be subjective if that were the case. the NFL needs to take subjectivity out of the game by making everything black and white so that would be crazy to think every call would be at at the discretion of the ref as to whether or not the penalty impacted the result of the play.
(11-14-2022, 11:25 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 11:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Lloyd looked like he was playing through injury at times yesterday. I think something is slowing him down.
Hamstring possibly.
I noticed this as well. When he was chasinging the TE on that crosser he kind of looked like he was limping or hobbling while running. I hope it's not the same injury he had in the offseason
Yep - that was one of the plays I saw it on as well. Another time when chasing a back to the sideline, his gait looked labored and irregular.
(11-14-2022, 11:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]They may not have been targeting/roughness, but both hits were defenseless receiver. Cisco (and the Jags) got lucky neither were called.
It's not a penalty unless the hit was unnecessary. Both hits were necessary.
If you can cite the rulebook on that, go ahead. How does a ref deem the hit necessary?
The first one was close, but generally refs are gonna give receivers the benefit when it's not black or white. If Cisco wraps up instead of using his body like a battering ram, no chance a flag is thrown. The second one he launches upwardly into a receiver in mid-air, which is 99% of the time gonna draw the flag, unless this crew is calling the game I reckon.
(11-14-2022, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 07:45 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Funny thing is, I've been reading some KC fans comments and they are complaining about how the refs are always unfair to them. They think Cisco should be fined for the injury to their receiver as well when there was obviously no foul on replays. Lol.
They may not have been targeting/roughness, but both hits were defenseless receiver. Cisco (and the Jags) got lucky neither were called.
I don't agree. Watching the replay on the first one, the receiver initiated the contact and Cisco was trying to get his head out of the way. I think the refs did the right thing. It's unfortunate the receiver was concussed but you can't outlaw contact completely or the sport will fundamentally change.
(11-14-2022, 12:27 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]They may not have been targeting/roughness, but both hits were defenseless receiver. Cisco (and the Jags) got lucky neither were called.
I don't agree. Watching the replay on the first one, the receiver initiated the contact and Cisco was trying to get his head out of the way. I think the refs did the right thing. It's unfortunate the receiver was concussed but you can't outlaw contact completely or the sport will fundamentally change.
I'm honestly surprised they picked up that first flag just because of the way it looked. I agree with it though, and if folks look at it objectively, they can see that Cisco didn't launch himself at the receiver, but rather braced for impact.
Oh, and on topic, the 1010xl guys were talking about Lloyd this morning with Boselli. Their take was that Lloyd was playing slow because he was lost and couldn't keep up mentally, and that he was flat benched for Muma at the end.
(11-14-2022, 12:14 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 11:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a penalty unless the hit was unnecessary. Both hits were necessary.
If you can cite the rulebook on that, go ahead. How does a ref deem the hit necessary?
The first one was close, but generally refs are gonna give receivers the benefit when it's not black or white. If Cisco wraps up instead of using his body like a battering ram, no chance a flag is thrown. The second one he launches upwardly into a receiver in mid-air, which is 99% of the time gonna draw the flag, unless this crew is calling the game I reckon.
If the receiver has touched the ball and could still conceivably catch it, any hit, except for a helmet spear or a horse collar or something like that, is necessary. It becomes unnecessary if the ball bounces off the receiver or is about to hit the ground.
(11-14-2022, 12:30 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 12:27 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I don't agree. Watching the replay on the first one, the receiver initiated the contact and Cisco was trying to get his head out of the way. I think the refs did the right thing. It's unfortunate the receiver was concussed but you can't outlaw contact completely or the sport will fundamentally change.
I'm honestly surprised they picked up that first flag just because of the way it looked. I agree with it though, and if folks look at it objectively, they can see that Cisco didn't launch himself at the receiver, but rather braced for impact.
Oh, and on topic, the 1010xl guys were talking about Lloyd this morning with Boselli. Their take was that Lloyd was playing slow because he was lost and couldn't keep up mentally, and that he was flat benched for Muma at the end.
It's the rookie wall. He needs an offseason to rest, recharge, continue learning. He'll probably be fine.
They would be crazy to bench Lloyd for an extended period of time.
We all knew the Chiefs were going to be tough. We had a decent showing in a losing effort to a team that is just, frankly, more advanced and better than we are right now. No shame in that. We'll get there. One thing I can say is that even though we currently have the same number of wins as last year, this year's team is A LOT more fun to watch!
Rumor has it is that Lloyd has been struggling with the matchup zone schemes they implemented over the past couple of weeks.
(11-15-2022, 12:20 AM)Adub28 Wrote: [ -> ]Rumor has it is that Lloyd has been struggling with the matchup zone schemes they implemented over the past couple of weeks.
Yep. Started with the clots road loss. He gets killed by the crossers apparently.
He can be an effective pass rusher though. On 3rd and long they might want to consider sending him at the QB more often and maybe moving Muma into the zone coverage role or going with more Robber looks to bring Cisco into the zone to cut that crossing [BLEEP] out.
And after he tatooed two receivers in KC over the middle he probably SHOULD be playing more Robber to get opponents second guessing and peaking before the catch.
Cover 3 Robber but send Lloyd into the backfield. I think it's worth a shot this late in the year. If he's struggling in coverage let him roam elsewhere to use his natural abilities as an athlete. Jenkins and Cisco can shift down into the middle for Zone coverage to keep a team on its toes.
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(11-14-2022, 12:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (11-14-2022, 11:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a penalty unless the hit was unnecessary. Both hits were necessary.
Agreed. Cisco did his job. As cleanly as possible. The modern offense is way too comfortable now and they think they get away with forcing anything into any coverage. [BLEEP] that. Defenders are allowed to make plays too.
It really needs to be reviewable. I don't care if it slows the game down or not. If you throw a 15 yard penalty and automatic 1st down on a 3rd or 4th and long? You better make damn sure that hit was clean.
Defenseless or not. If that ball is in the air and its closely contested? It's anybody's game. If my guy lowers his shoulder or uses his forearm to avoid the helmet to helmet blow while hitting the collarbone, chest and shoulder area? It's clean. Pick that flag up.
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Agreed. On the first one he keeps his feet in the ground and leads with the shoulder. That's how they teach it. Should have been a fumble.
(11-15-2022, 12:51 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2022, 12:20 AM)Adub28 Wrote: [ -> ]Rumor has it is that Lloyd has been struggling with the matchup zone schemes they implemented over the past couple of weeks.
Yep. Started with the clots road loss. He gets killed by the crossers apparently.
He can be an effective pass rusher though. On 3rd and long they might want to consider sending him at the QB more often and maybe moving Muma into the zone coverage role or going with more Robber looks to bring Cisco into the zone to cut that crossing [BLEEP] out.
And after he tatooed two receivers in KC over the middle he probably SHOULD be playing more Robber to get opponents second guessing and peaking before the catch.
Cover 3 Robber but send Lloyd into the backfield. I think it's worth a shot this late in the year. If he's struggling in coverage let him roam elsewhere to use his natural abilities as an athlete. Jenkins and Cisco can shift down into the middle for Zone coverage to keep a team on its toes.
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Some guy said the same thing in the Caldwell and this defense thread.