(12-13-2022, 10:04 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-12-2022, 10:35 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Cutting him would only save like $4m and he's worth more value to the team than $4m is imo. He's one of the top return men in the game and has a place as the gadget guy in the Offense. Would be a mistake to let him go imo. Let him finish out the last year of his deal and go from there.
They could always extend him another year, or two and push some of that $$ back on future caps. I'd definitely be for that, but either way he should still be on this roster next year.
The cap situation is bad... I hate to bring it up, because we are actually dealing with a playoff run... But we could be losing a lot of guys that we all really like come 2023. And that just makes me want this squad to make the playoffs that much more.
This squad, this group of players. They deserve a playoff run. THIS YEAR
Cap isn’t real. It’s very easily manipulated from year to year.
(12-13-2022, 03:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 10:04 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]The cap situation is bad... I hate to bring it up, because we are actually dealing with a playoff run... But we could be losing a lot of guys that we all really like come 2023. And that just makes me want this squad to make the playoffs that much more.
This squad, this group of players. They deserve a playoff run. THIS YEAR
Cap isn’t real. It’s very easily manipulated from year to year.
The cap is real, it's just that it almost doesn't matter when you're only paying for players you want to keep. You can just move money out using signing bonuses. The cap is a problem when your team has to keep players they don't want because of the dead money and can't afford better players because of that.
Like I said, if they want to keep guys like Agnew they can do so. The real question is figuring out who is worth paying on this roster, because it's been a bad team, so clearly not everyone is worth keeping at more than the vet minimum.
(12-13-2022, 10:04 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-12-2022, 10:35 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Cutting him would only save like $4m and he's worth more value to the team than $4m is imo. He's one of the top return men in the game and has a place as the gadget guy in the Offense. Would be a mistake to let him go imo. Let him finish out the last year of his deal and go from there.
They could always extend him another year, or two and push some of that $$ back on future caps. I'd definitely be for that, but either way he should still be on this roster next year.
The cap situation is bad... I hate to bring it up, because we are actually dealing with a playoff run... But we could be losing a lot of guys that we all really like come 2023. And that just makes me want this squad to make the playoffs that much more.
This squad, this group of players. They deserve a playoff run. THIS YEAR
It's really not though. The cap is a myth for the most part. Plenty of ways to work around it.
(12-13-2022, 03:33 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 03:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Cap isn’t real. It’s very easily manipulated from year to year.
The cap is real, it's just that it almost doesn't matter when you're only paying for players you want to keep. You can just move money out using signing bonuses. The cap is a problem when your team has to keep players they don't want because of the dead money and can't afford better players because of that.
Like I said, if they want to keep guys like Agnew they can do so. The real question is figuring out who is worth paying on this roster, because it's been a bad team, so clearly not everyone is worth keeping at more than the vet minimum.
Griffin and Marvin Jones I think are clearly gone.
Probably Jenkins and RRH as well.
(12-13-2022, 03:33 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 03:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Cap isn’t real. It’s very easily manipulated from year to year.
The cap is real, it's just that it almost doesn't matter when you're only paying for players you want to keep. You can just move money out using signing bonuses. The cap is a problem when your team has to keep players they don't want because of the dead money and can't afford better players because of that.
Like I said, if they want to keep guys like Agnew they can do so. The real question is figuring out who is worth paying on this roster, because it's been a bad team, so clearly not everyone is worth keeping at more than the vet minimum.
If they are lucky they can carry over about ~$5 million from this year to next year. Cutting Roy-Roberson Harris, Griffin, Chaison and restructuring Jenkins gets that closer to ~$10-11 million. Cutting Agnew to save ~$4 million is a major question.
The will seriously have to look to restructuring some of the big signing guys like Cam, Scherff, and/or Oluokun(each would save ~$8-9 million in 23 but then you are definitely tied to them for 24 and have some dead money in 25).
Restructuring Foley may make some sense as you only save ~$4-5 mil, and but Darious makes no sense given you want to cut in him 24 and it only saves ~$5-7 million.
Say they do all of that except restructure Darious, and they restructure Zaye and Cooke as they seem them as long term pieces, they could have ~$50 million in cap space.
This is all before figuring out what to do with Engram and Taylor. And they would be tied to all of them for 23 and 24. They would also have some major dead money in '25 if they move on from any of those top 3 guys instead of resigning them which will be an issue as that will be contract time for Ridley and Allen as well as good depth guys in Davon and Bartch.
Though, if they keep winning games, the incoming draft class will have a smaller cap hit.
This all comes back to what position group can this coaching staff develop with minimal investment. They really need one to have create a consistent contender.
I wouldn’t mind resigning Engram early
(12-13-2022, 03:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 10:04 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]The cap situation is bad... I hate to bring it up, because we are actually dealing with a playoff run... But we could be losing a lot of guys that we all really like come 2023. And that just makes me want this squad to make the playoffs that much more.
This squad, this group of players. They deserve a playoff run. THIS YEAR
Cap isn’t real. It’s very easily manipulated from year to year.
If that's true, why didn't we resign Calaius Campbell, or AR15, or a bunch of other players we decided not to resign???
Obviously the cap can be worked and massaged. But to say it isn't a real thing is just plain ignorant.
(12-17-2022, 09:54 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 03:21 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Cap isn’t real. It’s very easily manipulated from year to year.
If that's true, why didn't we resign Calaius Campbell, or AR15, or a bunch of other players we decided not to resign???
Obviously the cap can be worked and massaged. But to say it isn't a real thing is just plain ignorant.
There was nothing about the cap that prevented the Jags from resigning AR15 or not trading Calais for nothing. They just decided they didn't want to pay AR as much as he wanted, and that Calais suddenly wasn't worth near what they were paying him. Stupidity, not the salary cap was what was in play there.
(12-13-2022, 06:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 10:04 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]The cap situation is bad... I hate to bring it up, because we are actually dealing with a playoff run... But we could be losing a lot of guys that we all really like come 2023. And that just makes me want this squad to make the playoffs that much more.
This squad, this group of players. They deserve a playoff run. THIS YEAR
It's really not though. The cap is a myth for the most part. Plenty of ways to work around it.
Again, it's not a myth. It is very real, even though there are ways to postpone a cap hit.
It's like getting a mortgage on your house. Just because you mortgage your house doesn't mean the price of the house is a myth. It still has to be paid.
Same thing with the NFL salary cap. You can slide some current payments into future years, but eventually, all the money you pay out counts against the cap.
(12-17-2022, 11:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 06:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]It's really not though. The cap is a myth for the most part. Plenty of ways to work around it.
Again, it's not a myth. It is very real, even though there are ways to postpone a cap hit.
It's like getting a mortgage on your house. Just because you mortgage your house doesn't mean the price of the house is a myth. It still has to be paid.
Same thing with the NFL salary cap. You can slide some current payments into future years, but eventually, all the money you pay out counts against the cap.
You’re leaving out the fact that the cap rises every year aside from the Covid year. The cap is a real thing, but a good creative finance guy can easily work around it.
(12-17-2022, 01:12 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2022, 11:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Again, it's not a myth. It is very real, even though there are ways to postpone a cap hit.
It's like getting a mortgage on your house. Just because you mortgage your house doesn't mean the price of the house is a myth. It still has to be paid.
Same thing with the NFL salary cap. You can slide some current payments into future years, but eventually, all the money you pay out counts against the cap.
You’re leaving out the fact that the cap rises every year aside from the Covid year. The cap is a real thing, but a good creative finance guy can easily work around it.
He can work around it
temporarily. He cannot cancel the ultimate accounting. He can only postpone it.
I was looking at the cap situation and it may not be as bad as I originally thought. Spotrac is now showing the Jaguars over the cap next year by slightly less than $17 million. I thought it used to be $21 million. I'm not sure what changed. They may have a new higher estimate of the cap.
As far as the $17 million, we can save $13.5 million by cutting Griffin. We are then only $3.5 million over. Pick one of the following and we are under the cap: RRH ($7.8 million), Jenkins ($6.25 million) or Agnew ($4.75 million).
Granted, we do need to do more than just be under the cap. We have a large number of free agents. I definitely want Engram back. The others largely depend upon the cost. However, cutting players isn't the only option. There are quite a few players where we could re-work their deals and save cap space.
I do think cutting Agnew has to at least be on the table. He represents the fourth most cap savings by cutting him and the most for any non-starter. He has less than 200 receiving/rushing yards this season. His value is largely as a returner, but return specialists are typically taken late in the draft. If cutting Agnew saves us a starter at another position, that's got to be considered. I'm not saying Agnew is gone. I suspect they re-work his deal and keep him but I also wouldn't be shocked if he was cut. It depends how much they value the returner position.
(12-17-2022, 01:28 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2022, 01:12 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]You’re leaving out the fact that the cap rises every year aside from the Covid year. The cap is a real thing, but a good creative finance guy can easily work around it.
He can work around it temporarily. He cannot cancel the ultimate accounting. He can only postpone it.
I think the main point is that no one should be worried about the cap.
(12-17-2022, 06:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2022, 01:28 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]He can work around it temporarily. He cannot cancel the ultimate accounting. He can only postpone it.
I think the main point is that no one should be worried about the cap.
LOL
Yeah, tell that to Coughlin and the 2017 defense.
Bro, there's a reason we lose so many good players here. And one of them is poor cap management and poor front office chicanery.
To ignore the cap like you do, it's just pathetic.
It's crazy, it's like trying to argue that the Sun exists with a guy that points to the sky at midnight and says, "See there's no sun here"
(12-17-2022, 07:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2022, 06:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I think the main point is that no one should be worried about the cap.
LOL
Yeah, tell that to Coughlin and the 2017 defense.
Bro, there's a reason we lose so many good players here. And one of them is poor cap management and poor front office chicanery.
To ignore the cap like you do, it's just pathetic.
It's crazy, it's like trying to argue that the Sun exists with a guy that points to the sky at midnight and says, "See there's no sun here"
Pathetic?
Who are you again?
Just because you don’t understand how to manipulate the cap, doesn’t mean it can’t be done. Coughlin butchered the cap because he didn’t know how to manipulate it. Plenty of GMs do it.
![[Image: FjuWpg6WYAANQAM.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjuWpg6WYAANQAM.jpg)