I challenge anyone who criticizes Herndon to go back and watch every defensive play. If you have all 22 or just YouTube on your computer or cell phone, just go back and see what you see.
He gets rrrrroasted. That is a fact.
But look at the plays where he causes the back to turn back inside, look at how he plays fundamentally in double coverage. Look how he re-routes some of the quick stuff. He’s a willing tackler, and seems to play with a team first attitude.
I see posters saying “Herndon is trash, etc.” but I can’t agree with that. I’m sure he didn’t run up to the coaches and say Hey guys I want to man up with Cede Lamb this week. Herndon is not a starting caliber player but he’s not trash, that’s all I’m saying.
I like Campbell, but if he’s our best CB then he needs to lock up and travel. But back to Herndon…on that 3rd and 6 play near the goal line he had his man blanketed and defended the play perfect. And on the walk off, game winning pick, Herndon had an effect on that play from jump street.
Naw I'm all good on watching him get repeatedly roasted by Noah Brown again... Like, who in the hell is Noah Brown anyways?
(12-19-2022, 06:10 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I challenge anyone who criticizes Herndon to go back and watch every defensive play. If you have all 22 or just YouTube on your computer or cell phone, just go back and see what you see.
He gets rrrrroasted. That is a fact.
But look at the plays where he causes the back to turn back inside, look at how he plays fundamentally in double coverage. Look how he re-routes some of the quick stuff. He’s a willing tackler, and seems to play with a team first attitude.
I see posters saying “Herndon is trash, etc.” but I can’t agree with that. I’m sure he didn’t run up to the coaches and say Hey guys I want to man up with Cede Lamb this week. Herndon is not a starting caliber player but he’s not trash, that’s all I’m saying.
I like Campbell, but if he’s our best CB then he needs to lock up and travel. But back to Herndon…on that 3rd and 6 play near the goal line he had his man blanketed and defended the play perfect. And on the walk off, game winning pick, Herndon had an effect on that play from jump street.
Dis you even hear Michael gallups name yesterday? Probably not, that's because tyson was on him.
(12-19-2022, 09:47 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Herndon did not make a play on that game winning INT, in fact he almost gave one up..
https://twitter.com/Jag28fan/status/1604938181480042496
Yeah I've noticed people saying he got a hand in there and tipped it but I had no idea what they were watching. He wasn't even close and if it doesn't bounce off browns hands then we would have all been yelling that he got burnt again and gave up another key first down.
Step out of the way, guys, and let the man get a ride on Herndon. He don’t want you near his man.
Still don’t understand why in the name of all things intelligent did Caldwell insist on having Herndon shadow Lamb to start the game while leaving Campbell outside. It was beyond stupid as Herndon was repeatedly abused.
(12-19-2022, 10:25 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ]Still don’t understand why in the name of all things intelligent did Caldwell insist on having Herndon shadow Lamb to start the game while leaving Campbell outside. It was beyond stupid as Herndon was repeatedly abused.
They have never played Campbell inside or had him shadow a receiver to different spots.
Would have been a major deviation. Not sure why you'd expect them to suddenly change that approach.
Dallas moved Lamb around and he's in the slot 60% of the time. With a backup playing nickel for the Jags - Lambs snaps in the slot were bound to produce.
This is just the reality of only having one good CB on your roster. The other guys are gonna get picked on.
(12-19-2022, 06:10 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I challenge anyone who criticizes Herndon to go back and watch every defensive play. If you have all 22 or just YouTube on your computer or cell phone, just go back and see what you see.
He gets rrrrroasted. That is a fact.
But look at the plays where he causes the back to turn back inside, look at how he plays fundamentally in double coverage. Look how he re-routes some of the quick stuff. He’s a willing tackler, and seems to play with a team first attitude.
I see posters saying “Herndon is trash, etc.” but I can’t agree with that. I’m sure he didn’t run up to the coaches and say Hey guys I want to man up with Cede Lamb this week. Herndon is not a starting caliber player but he’s not trash, that’s all I’m saying.
I like Campbell, but if he’s our best CB then he needs to lock up and travel. But back to Herndon…on that 3rd and 6 play near the goal line he had his man blanketed and defended the play perfect. And on the walk off, game winning pick, Herndon had an effect on that play from jump street.
Herndon is average. I dunno anyone clamoring that he is trash as you allege.
Personally, I'm looking for better than average to be the starting defensive backfield.
(12-19-2022, 09:29 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2022, 06:10 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I challenge anyone who criticizes Herndon to go back and watch every defensive play. If you have all 22 or just YouTube on your computer or cell phone, just go back and see what you see.
He gets rrrrroasted. That is a fact.
But look at the plays where he causes the back to turn back inside, look at how he plays fundamentally in double coverage. Look how he re-routes some of the quick stuff. He’s a willing tackler, and seems to play with a team first attitude.
I see posters saying “Herndon is trash, etc.” but I can’t agree with that. I’m sure he didn’t run up to the coaches and say Hey guys I want to man up with Cede Lamb this week. Herndon is not a starting caliber player but he’s not trash, that’s all I’m saying.
I like Campbell, but if he’s our best CB then he needs to lock up and travel. But back to Herndon…on that 3rd and 6 play near the goal line he had his man blanketed and defended the play perfect. And on the walk off, game winning pick, Herndon had an effect on that play from jump street.
Dis you even hear Michael gallups name yesterday? Probably not, that's because tyson was on him.
I did, but only because some ding dong was tweeting about how he started gallup in FF and lost his season lol
(12-19-2022, 10:40 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2022, 10:25 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ]Still don’t understand why in the name of all things intelligent did Caldwell insist on having Herndon shadow Lamb to start the game while leaving Campbell outside. It was beyond stupid as Herndon was repeatedly abused.
They have never played Campbell inside or had him shadow a receiver to different spots.
Would have been a major deviation. Not sure why you'd expect them to suddenly change that approach.
Dallas moved Lamb around and he's in the slot 60% of the time. With a backup playing nickel for the Jags - Lambs snaps in the slot were bound to produce.
This is just the reality of only having one good CB on your roster. The other guys are gonna get picked on.
Right. No matter what the Jaguars do they're going to have bad corners in coverage. The fact that we have a lot of trouble stopping the run compounds it by making everyone in the back field have to make quick decisions to come up and make tackles on rushing plays.
At this point our strategy for winning is hope Trevor can score on every drive and that the other team's offense makes enough mistakes that they don't score on every drive.
(12-19-2022, 09:47 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Herndon did not make a play on that game winning INT, in fact he almost gave one up..
https://twitter.com/Jag28fan/status/1604938181480042496
This is a bogus...
Classic example of how one moment can be used to skew reality.
Herndon picked up the WR and bumped him off his line that resulted in a tough catch.
This picture, while showing the moment, is absolutely not what actually happened in the play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3UeGmocADg
Start at 13:46
Watch as Herndon recognizes the crossing pattern and pushes 85 off his route. That push off messed up 85s timing entirely. Herndon absolutely should be given credit for his football IQ and hustle to get there and disrupt the pattern.
(12-19-2022, 10:40 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2022, 10:25 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ]Still don’t understand why in the name of all things intelligent did Caldwell insist on having Herndon shadow Lamb to start the game while leaving Campbell outside. It was beyond stupid as Herndon was repeatedly abused.
They have never played Campbell inside or had him shadow a receiver to different spots.
Would have been a major deviation. Not sure why you'd expect them to suddenly change that approach.
Dallas moved Lamb around and he's in the slot 60% of the time. With a backup playing nickel for the Jags - Lambs snaps in the slot were bound to produce.
This is just the reality of only having one good CB on your roster. The other guys are gonna get picked on.
I suppose I really have no clue whether or not Tyson Campbell can handle man coverage against the possible route combinations from a really good route runner in the slot postion. So maybe you are right.
However we had no problem moving Herndon from his natural postion at nickel as he has had to cover inside and outside receivers in man coverage.
Obviously he’s a better nickel than he is an outside guy…
all I know is that while some of the other Dallas receivers did have some success.. including the guy who dropped the final
Pass… Tyson Campbell supposedly had a good day largely matched up against Michael Gallup I suppose because he was exclusively lined up at X or Z. If that’s the case and Lamb is head and shoulders above any other receiver on that roster. Why not only when you are in man coverage and not in zone mind you … have your best corner shadow their best receiver who is in the process of shredding you for 6 catches and 100 plus yards in the first half largely against man to
Man coverage…
Ok I get it… he can’t guard anyone unless he lines up at X or Z because it goes against the structure of our defense.. which by the way to me is a load of crap as I have seen many top corners from high school level to the professional guard inside receivers lined up in the slot in man to man coverage (One of those corners who I saw do that BTW was Tyson Campbell when he played at Plantation American Heritage down in Fort Lauderdale coached by a damn good head coach/ defensive coordinator and player in Patrick Surtan SR.)
But for Gods sake Herndon wasn’t getting the job done … let’s give Campbell a try and let Herndon try his luck vs Gallup. Only in man coverage mind you not with any of our zone pressures or anything that requires our nickel to play anything other than man coverage…
Just my opinion. And to be honest there is a lot of what we have been doing this year on defense that seems so complex that we seem completely lost in coverage so I have little faith in anything Caldwell does at this point.
Hope he proves me wrong and we make a strong run to finish the season though. and I hope Garrett Wilson lines up exclusively on the outside this Thursday.
(12-20-2022, 12:32 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2022, 10:40 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They have never played Campbell inside or had him shadow a receiver to different spots.
Would have been a major deviation. Not sure why you'd expect them to suddenly change that approach.
Dallas moved Lamb around and he's in the slot 60% of the time. With a backup playing nickel for the Jags - Lambs snaps in the slot were bound to produce.
This is just the reality of only having one good CB on your roster. The other guys are gonna get picked on.
I suppose I really have no clue whether or not Tyson Campbell can handle man coverage against the possible route combinations from a really good route runner in the slot postion. So maybe you are right.
However we had no problem moving Herndon from his natural postion at nickel as he has had to cover inside and outside receivers in man coverage.
Obviously he’s a better nickel than he is an outside guy…
all I know is that while some of the other Dallas receivers did have some success.. including the guy who dropped the final
Pass… Tyson Campbell supposedly had a good day largely matched up against Michael Gallup I suppose because he was exclusively lined up at X or Z. If that’s the case and Lamb is head and shoulders above any other receiver on that roster. Why not only when you are in man coverage and not in zone mind you … have your best corner shadow their best receiver who is in the process of shredding you for 6 catches and 100 plus yards in the first half largely against man to
Man coverage…
Ok I get it… he can’t guard anyone unless he lines up at X or Z because it goes against the structure of our defense.. which by the way to me is a load of crap as I have seen many top corners from high school level to the professional guard inside receivers lined up in the slot in man to man coverage (One of those corners who I saw do that BTW was Tyson Campbell when he played at Plantation American Heritage down in Fort Lauderdale coached by a damn good head coach/ defensive coordinator and player in Patrick Surtan SR.)
But for Gods sake Herndon wasn’t getting the job done … let’s give Campbell a try and let Herndon try his luck vs Gallup. Only in man coverage mind you not with any of our zone pressures or anything that requires our nickel to play anything other than man coverage…
Just my opinion. And to be honest there is a lot of what we have been doing this year on defense that seems so complex that we seem completely lost in coverage so I have little faith in anything Caldwell does at this point.
Hope he proves me wrong and we make a strong run to finish the season though. and I hope Garrett Wilson lines up exclusively on the outside this Thursday.
I don't disagree with any of that.
I just think Caldwell *edit* is so busy trying to mitigate lack of talent at 5 spots on the defense he couldn't take on implementing Campbell moving the secondary around to shadow Lamb without throwing too much at a struggling unit.
Ideally - he'd be able to do that. For sure. I just don't think they were prepared to do it based on everything else they are trying to band-aid.
(12-20-2022, 12:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2022, 12:32 PM)TTechJag85 Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose I really have no clue whether or not Tyson Campbell can handle man coverage against the possible route combinations from a really good route runner in the slot postion. So maybe you are right.
However we had no problem moving Herndon from his natural postion at nickel as he has had to cover inside and outside receivers in man coverage.
Obviously he’s a better nickel than he is an outside guy…
all I know is that while some of the other Dallas receivers did have some success.. including the guy who dropped the final
Pass… Tyson Campbell supposedly had a good day largely matched up against Michael Gallup I suppose because he was exclusively lined up at X or Z. If that’s the case and Lamb is head and shoulders above any other receiver on that roster. Why not only when you are in man coverage and not in zone mind you … have your best corner shadow their best receiver who is in the process of shredding you for 6 catches and 100 plus yards in the first half largely against man to
Man coverage…
Ok I get it… he can’t guard anyone unless he lines up at X or Z because it goes against the structure of our defense.. which by the way to me is a load of crap as I have seen many top corners from high school level to the professional guard inside receivers lined up in the slot in man to man coverage (One of those corners who I saw do that BTW was Tyson Campbell when he played at Plantation American Heritage down in Fort Lauderdale coached by a damn good head coach/ defensive coordinator and player in Patrick Surtan SR.)
But for Gods sake Herndon wasn’t getting the job done … let’s give Campbell a try and let Herndon try his luck vs Gallup. Only in man coverage mind you not with any of our zone pressures or anything that requires our nickel to play anything other than man coverage…
Just my opinion. And to be honest there is a lot of what we have been doing this year on defense that seems so complex that we seem completely lost in coverage so I have little faith in anything Caldwell does at this point.
Hope he proves me wrong and we make a strong run to finish the season though. and I hope Garrett Wilson lines up exclusively on the outside this Thursday.
I don't disagree with any of that.
I just think Campbell is so busy trying to mitigate lack of talent at 5 spots on the defense he couldn't take on implementing Campbell moving the secondary around to shadow Lamb without throwing too much at a struggling unit.
Ideally - he'd be able to do that. For sure. I just don't think they were prepared to do it based on everything else they are trying to band-aid.
That’s def fair. That’s why I think only in one specific look.. and that is whenever you want to go man to man, you say hey that’s their best guy and we are not going to let him beat us. If Gallup bests us because we have no other DB on the roster
Who can play man coverage then fine .. but let’s do all we can when we want to isolate our players on theirs in man to get our best on their best…
we seem to be a very multiple
defense. Lots of zone pressure and man pressure.. lots of lineman dropping in coverage and sometimes dropping 8 or so. Eventually I think we did make some adjustments which includes giving more help and or bodies to cover Lamb which was more effective in the second half as his effect fell off significantly from the first..
and maybe that was Herndon playing better although I did notice on the last 3rd and 10 that the cowboys tried to throw the vertical route on the sideline Lamb drew three defenders on his seam route which was very smart considering the significance of that play on the game ..
I just hope we say to ourselves eventually look we can’t cover everyone.. let’s at least give us a chance to minimize the effect of getting beat by their top threat however we can and not just leave him matched up against whoever in isolation.
this week I think that threat is Garret Wilson.. but I know the jets have several weapons on the outside so it may not matter .
Herndon may not be Ramsey, but he has the heart of a Jaguar. He recognized the play, he realized he need to effect the play, and he did everything he could do to change the play.
What more can you ask for from a 5th string DB????
Dude gets a game ball
I'm sorry, but the more I watch that play, the more I think that Herndon should be given credit.
Campbell and Cisco are both on the spot, but Herndon ducked under to make sure he disrupted the play.
Of course Jenkins is the PLAYER.
But he's not there without Herndon messing up the Cowboy reciever
Need to keep in mind Herdon is an undrafted free agent who makes $700k year. That should equate to a last resort backup DB playing the nickel.
(12-20-2022, 01:14 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Herndon may not be Ramsey, but he has the heart of a Jaguar. He recognized the play, he realized he need to effect the play, and he did everything he could do to change the play.
What more can you ask for from a 5th string DB????
Dude gets a game ball
I'm sorry, but the more I watch that play, the more I think that Herndon should be given credit.
Campbell and Cisco are both on the spot, but Herndon ducked under to make sure he disrupted the play.
Of course Jenkins is the PLAYER.
But he's not there without Herndon messing up the Cowboy reciever
?He's the primary backup?
I'm sorry I can't jump up and down too much about these guys.
It's OK to respect a player's contribution and still recognize that the team would be better if we upgraded them on our roster.
Jenkins is next in line for me. He has somehow positively affected the outcome of multiple games this year by being Johnny on the spot - but has also been roasted by TEs and RBs 3 dozen times this season and he's making 9 mil a year.
I have to temper my praise with the reality of their struggles. Gotta weigh the good with the bad.
(12-20-2022, 01:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2022, 01:14 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Herndon may not be Ramsey, but he has the heart of a Jaguar. He recognized the play, he realized he need to effect the play, and he did everything he could do to change the play.
What more can you ask for from a 5th string DB????
Dude gets a game ball
I'm sorry, but the more I watch that play, the more I think that Herndon should be given credit.
Campbell and Cisco are both on the spot, but Herndon ducked under to make sure he disrupted the play.
Of course Jenkins is the PLAYER.
But he's not there without Herndon messing up the Cowboy reciever
?He's the primary backup?
I'm sorry I can't jump up and down too much about these guys.
It's OK to respect a player's contribution and still recognize that the team would be better if we upgraded them on our roster.
Jenkins is next in line for me. He has somehow positively affected the outcome of multiple games this year by being Johnny on the spot - but has also been roasted by TEs and RBs 3 dozen times this season and he's making 9 mil a year.
I have to temper my praise with the reality of their struggles. Gotta weigh the good with the bad.
Yeah, Jenkins helps in the run game but has been putrid in coverage. I don't think he'll be here next year with that cap number. He's played below replacement level. There's only a handful of teams he'd be starting for.
(12-20-2022, 01:14 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Herndon may not be Ramsey, but he has the heart of a Jaguar. He recognized the play, he realized he need to effect the play, and he did everything he could do to change the play.
What more can you ask for from a 5th string DB????
Dude gets a game ball
I'm sorry, but the more I watch that play, the more I think that Herndon should be given credit.
Campbell and Cisco are both on the spot, but Herndon ducked under to make sure he disrupted the play.
Of course Jenkins is the PLAYER.
But he's not there without Herndon messing up the Cowboy reciever
The ball still hit the reciever I the chest and he dropped it. Herndon shouldn't be starting in the NFL.
(12-20-2022, 01:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2022, 01:14 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Herndon may not be Ramsey, but he has the heart of a Jaguar. He recognized the play, he realized he need to effect the play, and he did everything he could do to change the play.
What more can you ask for from a 5th string DB????
Dude gets a game ball
I'm sorry, but the more I watch that play, the more I think that Herndon should be given credit.
Campbell and Cisco are both on the spot, but Herndon ducked under to make sure he disrupted the play.
Of course Jenkins is the PLAYER.
But he's not there without Herndon messing up the Cowboy reciever
?He's the primary backup?
I'm sorry I can't jump up and down too much about these guys.
It's OK to respect a player's contribution and still recognize that the team would be better if we upgraded them on our roster.
Jenkins is next in line for me. He has somehow positively affected the outcome of multiple games this year by being Johnny on the spot - but has also been roasted by TEs and RBs 3 dozen times this season and he's making 9 mil a year.
I have to temper my praise with the reality of their struggles. Gotta weigh the good with the bad.
Nah, live in the now, all analysis must be rash and short-sighted.